Better performance -- Alcaraz 2022 USO vs Sinner 2024 USO

[nolefam_2024]

Sinner wins this one. It was absolutely crushing performance losing just 2 sets. He was never in any danger. Total domination.

Alcaraz was just 19 and his performance is good for his age. But Sinner dominated easily should win this but people like to hate on Sinner.

 

[nolefam_2024]

All those choosing raz see a pattern

All of them are Nadal fans. They don't like pure hard court domination.

 

[Aabye5]

when the dumbest poster tells you that your thread is dumb, you should take it as a compliment

@dking68 isn't dumb, just passionate. Fans can be like that.

 

[Incognito]

Sinner slightly. Raz was gritty in 2022, but let's not forget he should have lost to Sinner in the QF.

Or could have won in 3

 

[Aabye5]

Sinner wins this one. It was absolutely crushing performance losing just 2 sets. He was never in any danger. Total domination.

Alcaraz was just 19 and his performance is good for his age. But Sinner dominated easily should win this but people like to hate on Sinner.

I thought Sinner's performance in AO was another level from his level at the USO.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I thought Sinner's performance in AO was another level from his level at the USO.

Why would his AO performance be better than USO ? He has become just more deadly now.

We should see stats like serve dominance , +1 dominance etc to see the proof.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Tennis Abstract: Jannik Sinner Match Results, Splits, and Analysis

Lowest Sinner reached in dominance ratio in USO is 1.33. He was just crushing the opponents.

While AO Medvedev had higher DR.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Sinner faced 40 bp in AO saving 34
In USO faced 39 bp saving 29.

So he might be more clutch in ao but he was almost buried by Medvedev up 6-3 4-1 in the final.

 

[Aabye5]

And Chuck’s opponents from Cilic to Tiafoe averaged 51% 1st. Those weak 2nd serves were just begging to be punished. He only won 49% of his 2nd serve points in that match.

Draper was at 49% first serves in, and 48% second serves won, so not much better at all. And Draper is a player that relies more on his serve than Tiafoe.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Draper was at 49% first serves in, and 48% second serves won, so not much better at all. And Draper is a player that relies more on his serve than Tiafoe.

And Paul, Medvedev, and Fritz were at 60%, 58%, and 59% respectively which isn’t great but is clearly better than what Cilic, Sinner, and Tiafoe were putting up in 2022.

 

[dking68]

when the dumbest poster tells you that your thread is dumb, you should take it as a compliment

Stick to the jail cell bud

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Sinner was dominant in a way Carlos was not. But competition comparison is fair.

Sinner was dominant because he faced a complete joke of a draw.
His only serious challenge was a Medvedev who made 55 unforced errors in a short match of 3 breadstick & one 6-4 set. Despite Medvedev playing so poorly, Sinner was struggling with the Russian's 'offence' & could've easily been taken to a 5th set. Imagine a vastly superior offense of Alcaraz now, who is also a much better athlete. He'd grind down the Clobestol boy, plus I'd not expect him to be THAT unclutch again. Remember, Alcaraz had set points with (2 with easy floaters) earlier than Sinner in set 2, blew it; had the early break & good looks at a double break in set 3, blew it; had the chance to serve for the 3rd set & blew it again.
I've not seen that many unclutch moments from him in a slam match. So I'd trust Alcaraz to shut the door in 4 sets this time around.

Alcaraz 2022 at USO wasn't a gold standard, but certainly better than Djokovic's 2023 & Sinner's 2024.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Sinner was dominant because he faced a complete joke of a draw.
His only serious challenge was a Medvedev who made 55 unforced errors in a short match of 3 breadstick & one 6-4 set. Despite Medvedev playing so poorly, Sinner was struggling with the Russian's 'offence' & could've easily been taken to a 5th set. Imagine a vastly superior offense of Alcaraz now, who is also a much better athlete. He'd grind down the Clobestol boy, plus I'd not expect him to be THAT unclutch again. Remember, Alcaraz had set points with (2 with easy floaters) earlier than Sinner in set 2, blew it; had the early break & good looks at a double break in set 3, blew it; had the chance to serve for the 3rd set & blew it again.
I've not seen that many unclutch moments from him in a slam match. So I'd trust Alcaraz to shut the door in 4 sets this time around.

Alcaraz 2022 at USO wasn't a gold standard, but certainly better than Djokovic's 2023 & Sinner's 2024.

Too bad Carlos the Shepherd was not there to challenge him on hards. You can make excuses, but Sinner dominated on HCs for the most part. But that IWs match is the one that hurts my argument the most.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

And Paul, Medvedev, and Fritz were at 60%, 58%, and 59% respectively which isn’t great but is clearly better than what Cilic, Sinner, and Tiafoe were putting up in 2022.

So first serve % is the only thing that matters, pal? Level of play by opponents is the main thing.
Apart from the clown, I don't think Alcaraz played anyone who didn't deserve to be indulged in a dogfight.

 

[dking68]

Sinner was dominant because he faced a complete joke of a draw.
His only serious challenge was a Medvedev who made 55 unforced errors in a short match of 3 breadstick & one 6-4 set. Despite Medvedev playing so poorly, Sinner was struggling with the Russian's 'offence' & could've easily been taken to a 5th set. Imagine a vastly superior offense of Alcaraz now, who is also a much better athlete. He'd grind down the Clobestol boy, plus I'd not expect him to be THAT unclutch again. Remember, Alcaraz had set points with (2 with easy floaters) earlier than Sinner in set 2, blew it; had the early break & good looks at a double break in set 3, blew it; had the chance to serve for the 3rd set & blew it again.
I've not seen that many unclutch moments from him in a slam match. So I'd trust Alcaraz to shut the door in 4 sets this time around.

Alcaraz 2022 at USO wasn't a gold standard, but certainly better than Djokovic's 2023 & Sinner's 2024.

man you’re crazier than I thought

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

man you’re crazier than I thought

1) I don't seek validation from you
2) you gotta have some skin to call me a crazy when you & your brigade have been spamming the board with bloody bull$h!t of CYGS, Sinner destroying Alcaraz like a toy @ IW & RG, Sinner destroying the field on clay & grass etc.

 

[Aabye5]

Sinner faced 40 bp in AO saving 34
In USO faced 39 bp saving 29.

So he might be more clutch in ao but he was almost buried by Medvedev up 6-3 4-1 in the final.

But Medvedev played a much better AO final than he played a USO quarterfinal. Not to mention Sinner played Djokovic in the semis.

And Paul, Medvedev, and Fritz were at 60%, 58%, and 59% respectively which isn’t great but is clearly better than what Cilic, Sinner, and Tiafoe were putting up in 2022.

Looking at the serving stats for the last three matches, quarterfinals, semis, finals, they're pretty close, although Sinner wins more of his opponent's second serves.

Alcaraz's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, aces/doubles
61 - 66 - 68, 8/11
47 - 70 - 54, 15/6
55 - 64 - 51, 4/2

Sinner's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, aces/doubles
56 - 67 - 42, 5/6
49 - 67 - 48, 8/10
59 - 68 - 43, 10/4

Tiafoe hit 15 aces to 6 double faults! Yes, he might hit a softball second sometimes, but his double fault count was pretty good.

 

[nolefam_2024]

But Medvedev played a much better AO final than he played a USO quarterfinal. Not to mention Sinner played Djokovic in the semis.



Looking at the serving stats for the last three matches, quarterfinals, semis, finals, they're pretty close, although Sinner wins more of his opponent's second serves.

Alcaraz's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, doubles
61 - 66 - 68, 8/11
47 - 70 - 54, 15/6
55 - 64 - 51, 4/2

Sinner's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, doubles
56 - 67 - 42, 5/6
49 - 67 - 48, 8/10
59 - 68 - 43, 10/4

Tiafoe hit 15 aces to 6 double faults! Yes, he might hit a softball second sometimes, but his double fault count was pretty good.

Yes we need more data.

 

[The Blond Blur]

So first serve % is the only thing that matters, pal? Level of play by opponents is the main thing.
Apart from the clown, I don't think Alcaraz played anyone who didn't deserve to be indulged in a dogfight.

No, but seeing as how the serve is the most important shot in the game if your opponent isn’t serving well then it makes it a lot easier to break. None of Cilic, Tiafoe, or Ruud were impressive and for the most part were very subpar. The Sinner match was a quality win, but that match is highly overrated. The Sinner had 97 UFEs to 53 winners and Chuck had 67 UFEs to 57 winners.

 

[The Blond Blur]

But Medvedev played a much better AO final than he played a USO quarterfinal. Not to mention Sinner played Djokovic in the semis.



Looking at the serving stats for the last three matches, quarterfinals, semis, finals, they're pretty close, although Sinner wins more of his opponent's second serves.

Alcaraz's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, aces/doubles
61 - 66 - 68, 8/11
47 - 70 - 54, 15/6
55 - 64 - 51, 4/2

Sinner's opponents:

1st%In - 1st%W - 2nd%W, aces/doubles
56 - 67 - 42, 5/6
49 - 67 - 48, 8/10
59 - 68 - 43, 10/4

Tiafoe hit 15 aces to 6 double faults! Yes, he might hit a softball second sometimes, but his double fault count was pretty good.

That basically says he was trying to go for aces and then patty caking his 2nd serve hence winning less than 50% of his 2nd serve points.

 

[Aabye5]

No, but seeing as how the serve is the most important shot in the game if your opponent isn’t serving well then it makes it a lot easier to break. None of Cilic, Tiafoe, or Ruud were impressive and for the most part were very subpar. The Sinner match was a quality win, but that match is highly overrated. The Sinner had 97 UFEs to 53 winners and Chuck had 67 UFEs to 57 winners.

But Medvedev was 30/57 in the winners-to-unforced count, and let's be honest, Medvedev by nature tends to be more conservative on the unforced error count. So, they're awful from both given their respective game styles.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

No, but seeing as how the serve is the most important shot in the game if your opponent isn’t serving well then it makes it a lot easier to break. None of Cilic, Tiafoe, or Ruud were impressive and for the most part were very subpar. The Sinner match was a quality win, but that match is highly overrated. The Sinner had 97 UFEs to 53 winners and Chuck had 67 UFEs to 57 winners.

Its not always necessary, players can make up for it from the ground too.

Tiafoe match was a poor one, I agree. But Cilic & Ruud definitely played way better than Fritz and Draper.
The QF match with Sinner should've been over in 3/4 sets for a Raz win, but again, the Italian in 2022 played way better than anyone in his own 2024 draw.

 

[Aabye5]

That basically says he was trying to go for aces and then patty caking his 2nd serve hence winning less than 50% of his 2nd serve points.

He won 54% of his second serves, so more than any of Sinner's opponents. Of course, part of that is because Sinner is better returner.

 

[The Blond Blur]

But Medvedev was 30/57 in the winners-to-unforced count, and let's be honest, Medvedev by nature tends to be more conservative on the unforced error count. So, they're awful from both given their respective game styles.

What’s worse, going -44 in winners - UFEs, 55% 1st serve% and 11 DFs to 8 aces, or going -27 in winners - UFEs, 58% 1st serve%, 6 DFs to 5 aces?

 

[The Blond Blur]

Its not always necessary, players can make up for it from the ground too.

Tiafoe match was a poor one, I agree. But Cilic & Ruud definitely played way better than Fritz and Draper.
The QF match with Sinner should've been over in 3/4 sets for a Raz win, but again, the Italian in 2022 played way better than anyone in his own 2024 draw.

I don’t think any of those guys played well off the ground tbh. Cilic was -21 in winners - UFEs for instance. And Sinner was -44.

 

[The Blond Blur]

He won 54% of his second serves, so more than any of Sinner's opponents. Of course, part of that is because Sinner is better returner.

Huh? I was talking about Tiafoe. He hit 12 aces to 6 DFs…because he was going for a big 1st serve and then being ultra conservative on his 2nd serve.

 

[dking68]

Again, I don't need your validation,
Also, stop personal attacks like that (highlighted)

Explain how he would win, if the 2022 weaker much mentally weaker sinner had a MP on 2022 Alcaraz. Sinner 2024 has much better shot tolerance, serve, return, everything, how would he win man? Be honest with yourself

 

[TheSlicer]

@dking68 isn't dumb, just passionate. Fans can be like that.

No, no, im ok with passionate, passionate is fine, but the way hes been is different from passionate, just trashing other players and not being knowledgable about tennis, but anyway, i Guess thats the past, maybe its time for me to reset my mind about it

 

[FeroBango]

That is true too. Alcaraz 1.0 also managed to beat Sinner 1.0 a few times. Sinner is great in HC, but people are discounting Alcaraz's chances too much.

Sinner is a beautiful player on HCs specifically yes. It's also true that Alcaraz is heavily underrated here -- which is often recipe for bumping future threads.

Speaking of variants, I believe Alcaraz had a special access to Sinner 2.0 from the get-go!

 

[Racquet_smash]

Imagine calling a draw with old man Cilic, Sinner back when he hadn't even won a single M1000, Tiafoe and Ruud hard.

Federer's 2018 AO, Nadal's 2017's USO and Djokovic's Wimbledon 2022 were harder than this and they are considered some of the easiest paths to victory of this century lol.

 

[FeroBango]

When I'm in a disqualification of other's achievements contest and Sinner fans walk in.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

When I'm in a disqualification of other's achievements contest and Sinner fans walk in.

They're probably in for a rude awakening if a Sinner Alcaraz match does happen this week in China. Alcaraz was absolutely dialled in today against Griekspoor, I haven't seen this type of fast HC tennis from him since his triumph at Miami in 2022.

 

[Net Beast]

Sinner is a beautiful player on HCs specifically yes. It's also true that Alcaraz is heavily underrated here -- which is often recipe for bumping future threads.

Speaking of variants, I believe Alcaraz had a special access to Sinner 2.0 from the get-go!

Yes, it looks as if Sinner had found the formula to trouble Alcaraz (Alcaraz had trouble finding his timing with Sinner's fast and deep balls). It looked as if Sinner was a bad matchup for Alcaraz. He might still be, relatively speaking, but it is too early to tell. So far Alcaraz is responding well to the challenge though.

 

[Goat Shank]

Sinner's USO was clearly better from a level of play perspective and any answer to the contrary is politically motivated. Alcaraz's run was definitely more fun to watch though, and felt like the raucous coming out party of a future great. I still have good memories of even his match with Brooksby where he was playing wonderfully. But the extreme reluctance of some to just call a spade a spade in this forum (however distasteful it may be to their sympathies) is really hurting the quality of discourse. Rafa4LifeEver has been rabidly hating on Sinner since the AO win and even before: they can't allow themselves even the most grudging praise towards him. The animus is completely wild at this point.

 

[Aabye5]

What’s worse, going -44 in winners - UFEs, 55% 1st serve% and 11 DFs to 8 aces, or going -27 in winners - UFEs, 58% 1st serve%, 6 DFs to 5 aces?

Depends on the player. You would never see numbers like that first set from Med. He just doesn't go for broke like that.

 

[Aabye5]

Huh? I was talking about Tiafoe. He hit 12 aces to 6 DFs…because he was going for a big 1st serve and then being ultra conservative on his 2nd serve.

He hit 15 aces, not 12.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Depends on the player. You would never see numbers like that first set from Med. He just doesn't go for broke like that.

He hit 15 aces, not 12.

Either way both draws were weak. But one guy swept through his rather easily, while the other had to slog through multiple 5 setters. Seems pretty cut and dry who played at a higher level in their respective runs to the title.

 

[SonnyT]

In '22, Carlos created a lot of excitement. In QF, five sets against Sinner; and SF, against Tiafoe!

In '24, there was one passable QF, and that was the one where Sinner defeated Medvedev!

 

[nolefam_2024]

In '22, Carlos created a lot of excitement. In QF, five sets against Sinner; and SF, against Tiafoe!

In '24, there was one passable QF, and that was the one where Sinner defeated Medvedev!

Domination does that. Nadal fans claim his early round five setters are epic. But those happen because of Nadal's game style. Not because he is better.

Better player can make matches one sided.