Better Player: Davydenko or Nalbandian?

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Davydenko or Nalbandian

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Kralingen said:
‘00 Pete, ‘05 Fed, ‘04 Agassi still better than those though.

also Safin dismantled Hewitt in ‘02 Paris which was Bo5
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I'm not saying Safin's peak wasn't better but it was certainly more infrequent. Hewitt/Roddick threw their hat in the ring a hell of a lot more often and Hewitt had injury issues just as bad as well as having the game change out from under him lessening most of his biggest strengths. Think about it like this if Safin drops the 5th set TB in UO 3R and Fed converts MP we're talking about a guy who has no slams two slam finals where he was absolutely atrocious and a SF performance that's remembered as mildly stronger than Hew 05 SF and Rod W 04 F with a couple dominant Paris masters on a dead surface that no one would care about. Consistency stays being wildly underrated.
 
Who wins these matchups?

1. Davydenko AO 10 QF vs Roddick AO 04 QF
2. Ferrero AO 04 SF vs Murray AO 11 SF
3. Hewitt YEC 02 final vs Davydenko YEC 09 final
4. Hewitt Wim 05 SF vs Murray Wim 12 SF
5. Hewitt Wim 04 QF vs Federer Wim 15 final
 
NatF said:
He came to net a lot more frequently than you're giving him credit for, even if he was primarily a baseliner. I do think you're being overly harsh, Safin had a lot of physical gifts and good technique and feel on the volleys too. As for it's frequency I don't think that's necessarily important considering his lifestyle and injuries. He wasn't commited enough in his youth and then suffered an injury that effectively ended his career as a top player.



What's his third best win?
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Would you say he approached the net more or less than your average offensive baseliner? I'd say less and clearly so. And even within the confines of the baseline he didn't much variety in shot selection either. He really didn't vary pace spin and especially angle often at all. If he was Next Gen you'd bash him for being one dimensional for sure and for the most part he was. Even his serve had basically no variety.
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
Now that Safin is being bandied around, @metsman is very much required.
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Hmmmm let's go down the list of opponents shall we?

Peak slow HC Roddick at AO 04

Defending champion Agassi in some of the highest quality ballstriking ever (current gens have no clue).

Not to mention he went through all of this after barely playing the previous year due to injury. What a talent.

Beats defending champ Kuerten and next year's champ Agassi in his first Slam tournament. Topped Roddick's career achievements on clay on his first RG ROFLMAO.

Crushes Sampras at 00 USO.

Beats prime Fred in the greatest match of all time at 05 AO.
 
Third Serve said:
Hmmmm let's go down the list of opponents shall we?

Peak slow HC Roddick at AO 04

Defending champion Agassi in some of the highest quality ballstriking ever (current gens have no clue).

Not to mention he went through all of this after barely playing the previous year due to injury. What a talent.

Beats defending champ Kuerten and next year's champ Agassi in his first Slam tournament. Topped Roddick's career achievements on clay on his first RG ROFLMAO.

Crushes Sampras at 00 USO.

Beats prime Fred in the greatest match of all time at 05 AO.
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Not to mention his ‘08 Wimby level wins every Wimbledon after 2012
 
The Guru said:
Would you say he approached the net more or less than your average offensive baseliner. I'd say less and clearly so. And even within the confines of the baseline he didn't much variety in shot selection either. He really didn't vary pace spin etc often at all. If he was Next Gen you'd bash him for being one dimensional for sure and for the most part he was. Even his serve had basically no variety.
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Who is an average offensive baseliner? TA has Safin approaching the net on 1336/8191 points which is 16.3%, about as often as Federer (16.7%), Djokovic is at 11.6%, Tsonga is at 15.8% etc...these are guys I assume you consider offensive baseliners? Tbh I don't blame your recollection because I didn't realise how often Safin came to net until I watched a few more of his matches and looked at the stats, it was more often than you think.

And lol #NextGen are a bunch of sevebot grinders so not a great comparison. Who's an aggressive baseliner from that group? Tsitispas (14.2%)? Rublev (6.4%)? If he was #NextGen Djokodal might well have a few less slams all other things being equal, I'd just be lamenting his lack of dedication.
 
RS said:
Who wins these matchups?

1. Davydenko AO 10 QF vs Roddick AO 04 QF
2. Ferrero AO 04 SF vs Murray AO 11 SF
3. Hewitt YEC 02 final vs Davydenko YEC 09 final
4. Hewitt Wim 05 SF vs Murray Wim 12 SF
5. Hewitt Wim 04 QF vs Federer Wim 15 final
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1. Roddick in four
2. Murray in five
3. Hewitt in five, Davydenko playing better but Hewitt refused to die there.
4. Murray in five.
5. Hewitt in five or Federer in four.
 
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NatF said:
Who is an average offensive baseliner? TA has Safin approaching the net on 1336/8191 points which is 16.3%, about as often as Federer (16.7%), Djokovic is at 11.6%, Tsonga is at 15.8% etc...these are guys I assume you consider offensive baseliners? Tbh I don't blame your recollection because I didn't realise how often Safin came to net until I watched a few more of his matches and looked at the stats, it was more often than you think.

And lol #NextGen are a bunch of sevebot grinders so not a great comparison. Who's an aggressive baseliner from that group? Tsitispas (14.2%)? Rublev (6.4%)? If he was #NextGen Djokodal might well have a few less slams all other things being equal, I'd just be lamenting his lack of dedication.
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Ok wow that is a lot more than I remembered. How big of a match sample is that and how many of those matches are on fast surfaces. Probably a decent skew there. I'd imagine the number across his whole career is probably around Novak's but could be wrong.
 
The answer is maybe, probably Davydenko, but anyone that actually picks Davydenko over Nalbandian is probably a Star Trek fan who would sit at home and play dungeons and dragons with their mum and dad on a Friday night instead of going out for cheeseburgers and street racing with their big-breasted girlfriend in their leather jacket.
 
The Guru said:
Ok wow that is a lot more than I remembered. How big of a match sample is that and how many of those matches are on fast surfaces. Probably a decent skew there. I'd imagine the number across his whole career is probably around Novak's but could be wrong.
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Not a huge amount of matches tbh, 41 but again there's many matches I've watched that aren't charted and he was definitely coming in a fair bit. Of course there's plenty of indoors in there but there's very little grass and a lot of slow HC as well. I think he came in more than Djokovic but I don't have the full numbers so not going to die on this hill, just trying to say he had more variety that you're giving him credit for.

Looking at clay alone:

http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20010508-M-Rome_Masters-R32-Roger_Federer-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20010602-M-Roland_Garros-R32-Fabrice_Santoro-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20020518-M-Hamburg_Masters-SF-Marat_Safin-Tommy_Robredo.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20020519-M-Hamburg_Masters-F-Roger_Federer-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/chart...arros-SF-Juan_Carlos_Ferrero-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/chart...o_Masters-SF-Marat_Safin-Guillermo_Coria.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20000521-M-Hamburg_Masters-SF-Marcelo_Rios-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20000522-M-Hamburg_Masters-F-Marat_Safin-Gustavo_Kuerten.html

His net approaches look quite high in those, especially relative to his opponents.
 
NatF said:
I joined several years before likes became a thing too ;) Join the church of Fed and we'll fix you up.
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Yeah I heard in 2015 is when likes became a thing. I had never ever heard of this place back then.
 
RS said:
Yeah I heard in 2015 is when likes became a thing. I had never ever heard of this place back then.
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No idea how I came across TTW tbh, so long ago. Spent nearly a third of my life talking on here which is wild.
 
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NatF said:
Not a huge amount of matches tbh, 41 but again there's many matches I've watched that aren't charted and he was definitely coming in a fair bit. Of course there's plenty of indoors in there but there's very little grass and a lot of slow HC as well. I think he came in more than Djokovic but I don't have the full numbers so not going to die on this hill, just trying to say he had more variety that you're giving him credit for.

Looking at clay alone:

http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20010508-M-Rome_Masters-R32-Roger_Federer-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20010602-M-Roland_Garros-R32-Fabrice_Santoro-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20020518-M-Hamburg_Masters-SF-Marat_Safin-Tommy_Robredo.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20020519-M-Hamburg_Masters-F-Roger_Federer-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/chart...arros-SF-Juan_Carlos_Ferrero-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/chart...o_Masters-SF-Marat_Safin-Guillermo_Coria.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20000521-M-Hamburg_Masters-SF-Marcelo_Rios-Marat_Safin.html
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20000522-M-Hamburg_Masters-F-Marat_Safin-Gustavo_Kuerten.html

His net approaches look quite high in those, especially relative to his opponents.
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lol gotta love someone charted the Santoro match. He has over 100 net points in it haha.
 
Surprised no one mentioned yet that Safin reached frickin #1 in 2000 winning like 7 titles. Won USO, Canada (bt. Sampras in QF), Paris (classic 5-setter vs Scud in final), made final of Hamburg losing in 5th set TB to peak Kuerten
 
abmk said:
Surprised no one mentioned yet that Safin reached frickin #1 in 2000 winning like 7 titles. Won USO, Canada (bt. Sampras in QF), Paris (classic 5-setter vs Scud in final), made final of Hamburg losing in 5th set TB to peak Kuerten
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To me, even if Fed takes that match point in the 4th set of ‘05, Safin still has the best achievements and peak level of that generation. Less consistent but he has more high level runs on aggregate than the others
 
Kralingen said:
To me, even if Fed takes that match point in the 4th set of ‘05, Safin still has the best achievements and peak level of that generation. Less consistent but he has more high level runs on aggregate than the others
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can't be better achievements than Hewitt in that case. given Hewitt has 2 YE#1s, 1 more slam and 2 more YECs in this case.
 
LetWinner II said:
Both have a year end title. Davydenko was awful against Federer, but had a winning H2H against Nadal. Nalbandian was decent against Federer, at 8-11, but was 3-11 post-2003. He didn’t do much of note against Djokovic or Nadal
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Nalbandian crushed Nadal in Madrid 07 and Paris 07.
Had Nadal on a string including having MPs in 2nd set in IW 09. Nadal escaped and Nalby collapsed after that.
 
NatF said:
No idea how I came across TTW tbh, so long ago. Spent nearly a third of my life talking on here which is wild.
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So you would have just passed 10 years :)

Did you ever lurk around on youtube at any point ?
 
abmk said:
Surprised no one mentioned yet that Safin reached frickin #1 in 2000 winning like 7 titles. Won USO, Canada (bt. Sampras in QF), Paris (classic 5-setter vs Scud in final), made final of Hamburg losing in 5th set TB to peak Kuerten
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That match with Philippoussis is actually really good. I saw bits of it for the first time a few months ago.

It's what matches between two giants should be like, not Zverev-Medvedev
 
Third Serve said:
That match with Philippoussis is actually really good. I saw bits of it for the first time a few months ago.

It's what matches between two giants should be like, not Zverev-Medvedev
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Underrated. NextGen could never match it lol.
 
Who played at a higher level?

1. Safin AO 05 SF or Federer USO 07 QF
2. Roddick Wim 04 F or Djokovic USO 11 SF
3. Federer AO 17 final or Djokovic USO 18 F
4. Federer USO 05 final or Djokovic AO 19 F
5. Djokovic RG 13 SF or Nadal RG 17 F
6. Wawrinka RG 15 F or Nadal Madrid 09 SF
7. Federer USO 04 QF or Djokovic AO 12 F
 
Nalbandian:

Has a slam final
AO: 1 SF, 3 QFs (incl. being stopped by fed/Hewitt in 2 QFs when playing good)
RG: 2 SFs
Wim: 1F, 1 QF
USO: 1 SF, 1 QF (stopped by Roddick when playing good)
YEC win in 05. Weak YEC. But did beat fed in a peak year (Fed was hampered after set2, but he was nigh unbeatable in finals back then, frickin 24 in a row and Nalby was able to close it out.)

Davydenko:

won outdoor and indoor masters
won more titles total
AO: 4 QFs (incl. being stopped twice by fed when playing good)
RG: 2 SFs, 2 QFs
Wim: no QFs
USO: 2 SFs
YEC win in 09. One of the most competitive YECs. Davy beat delpo, fed, sod, nadal.

In the end:

Nalby bt fed in AO 03, was really good in AO 04, a little less in AO 05, should not have choked vs baggy in AO 06. Davy was also good in AO 06, 10, decent in AO 07. But had a significant stretch of letdown in AO 10 QF. Gonna give slight edge to nalby peak to peak and total at AO

Nalby bt safin, kuerten in RG 04, davy himself in RG 06. Davy bt Nalby himself in RG 07. But Davy fought/made it competitive in his RG SFs. 5-setter vs Puerta (outlasted by doping Puerta), competitive 3-setter vs fed (all 3 close, choked away 3rd set). nalby went down tamely in RG 04 semi vs Gaudio. was 1 all vs fed before he had injury in RG 06. So while Nalby has better wins, gonna call this about even peak to peak. Davy more consistent at RG.

Nalby by a big margin at Wim

Nalby bt fed (&El Ayanoui) in USO 03, nearly bt. Roddick. davy was dominant in USO 07 before the semi (incl Haas in QF), but gonna give nalby the edge here peak to peak.

YEC: clear edge to Davy's win in 09

Masters/other tournaments: edge to Davy. has outdoor masters in IW 08. but only 3 SFs in addition to it. Nalby has 2Fs+3 SFs in outdoors masters. Nalby's Madrid+Paris 07 more impressive than any matsters win for Davy though. Davy has more tournaments total.

h2h: nalby clearly matches up better vs fed. both tough matchups for nadal, but davy obviously had more wins including that Doha win where he saved MPs.
game wise: nalby the more talented player clearly (better angles/net play/touch), but davy a little more of a machine when dialled in.
 
Last edited:
When it comes to their games, Davydenko was fitter, quicker but that's about all. Nalbandian was as good or better at everything else.

When it comes to work ethics, the Russian wins, no doubt.
 
RS said:
Who played at a higher level?

1. Safin AO 05 SF or Federer USO 07 QF
2. Roddick Wim 04 F or Djokovic USO 11 SF
3. Federer AO 17 final or Djokovic USO 18 F
4. Federer USO 05 final or Djokovic AO 19 F
5. Djokovic RG 13 SF or Nadal RG 17 F
6. Wawrinka RG 15 F or Nadal Madrid 09 SF
7. Federer USO 04 QF or Djokovic AO 12 F
Click to expand...

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Djokovic
4. Federer
5. Djokovic RG 13 SF
6. Madrid 09 SF
7. Impossible due to wind
 
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my thread got Safin’d. RIP.

On the other hand it seems the poll is close, so that’s nice
 
Kralingen said:
The combo of beating ‘98 Agassi and defending champ Guga back to back in his first Slam ever at Roland Garros :-D ok maybe that doesn’t count
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I would have guessed after seeing him there (the first time I ever saw or even heard of him) that he would go on to win more than 2 slams. And I saw him as a likely future champ at Roland Garros itself which sadly never happened.
 
The Guru said:
The Safin obsession is exceedingly strange to me. He was a closed court ball basher with little variety which is typically the type of player the people who love Safin hate. I mean the dude could obviously play but he has the worst career of the Rod/Hew/Saf trio imo but he gets the most hype by far. Yes I know it's because of his "peak" but did we see this peak enough to say it wasn't a redlining anomaly more than a peak. It's like calling W 04 first set peak Roddick like he was able to replicate that level with any regularity.
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Perhaps you have confused him with his sister.
 
Kralingen said:
Uhhhhh

his peak level took HC Slams from a good Sampras and a peak Federer. His peak level got him to #1, longer than Nalby or Roddick. He performed well on multiple surfaces and had an insane indoor run that cannot be put down to a hot streak.

Roddick’s best win in a Slam is what? Seriously what is it?

Nalbandian’s best win in a Slam is what? Pre prime Federer? No one gives Tsonga credit for beating ‘09-10 Djokovic bc once Novak entered his prime it was curtains for Jo. Same with Nalbandian and Federer. His best runs ended in choking a 2 set lead to Roddick and Baghdatis.

Safin on the other hand demonstrated elite aggressive returning ability, outplayed Fed and Sampras in Slams, and was by far the most unlucky with injury out of the 3 as well.
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Nalbandian was both great aggressive and defensive returner.
 
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