Better season: 2005 Federer or 2013 Nadal?

2005 Federer or 2013 Nadal

  • Total voters
    95
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Both guys looked incredibly dominant in their respective seasons. Both guys won 2 slams, a bunch of masters 1000, reached the final of the WTF without losing a match and had great win-loss records.

Points for Nadal:

- significantly more top 10 wins
- 1 additional masters 1000 title
- won the Canada-Cincy-USO triple

Points for Federer:

- much better win percentage
- better performances in the slams
- better contender on all 3 surfaces
- won more titles than Nadal overall

What swings it in Federer's favor, IMO, is the fact that Nadal did not win a single match at 2/4 majors, while Fed reached SF or better in all 4 slams. Also, Nadal had a losing record on one of the 3 tennis surfaces with his 0-1 record on grass.

So who had the better season?
 
As I wrote many times, this talk about "Nadal did not win a single match at 2/4 majors" doesn't make any sense to me. He was coming back from an injury, so he didn't even play AO. Yes, a first round loss at Wimbledon was bad but that was 2 weeks after he played one of the (physically) toughest clay seasons in history, I don't think he had much time to practice on grass after that. Anyway, 2 slams are 2 slams.

IMO what hurts Nadal here is the end of the season. Had he won WTF final I would maybe put him ahead, but he played a very poor match. Ironically, he played on the same level in the 2015 indoor season and his results looked great. Everything comes in comparison to the rest of the season.
 
Fed slightly. Nadal having no wins at two of the Majors is what seals the deal here, though his extra Masters title makes it close. He also had better competition for the most part (bar the US Open), but I don’t think that’s enough when judging pure level.
 
I would also like to add that a major difference between Nadal's 2013 and Federer's 2005 is that Nadal won his toughest match (FO SF), while Federer lost his (AO SF).

I know it is subjective, but had Federer won the 2005 AO, competition would have been a slam dunk in his favor in 2005 over 2013 Nadal. As things are, it is still highly debatable.

What I can say with absolute certainty though is that FO 2013 > Wimb 2005 in terms of competition, while USO 2005 > USO 2013 in terms of competition.
 
Third Serve said:
Fed slightly. Nadal having no wins at two of the Majors is what seals the deal here, though his extra Masters title makes it close. He also had better competition for the most part (bar the US Open), but I don’t think that’s enough when judging pure level.
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Speaking of competition, Federer had to beat a top 5 player in every GS semi in 2005.
 
Nadal had the more impressive wins: (he beat prime, arguably peak Djokovic twice in Slams)

Better season? I would go with Federer. That 1st round defeat at Wimbledon for Nadal was a massive blow to the quality of his entire season (see ITF player of the year decision).
 
NoleFam said:
Nadal had the more impressive wins: (he beat prime, arguably peak Djokovic twice in Slams)

Better season? I would go with Federer. That 1st round defeat at Wimbledon for Nadal was a massive blow to the quality of his entire season (see ITF player of the year decision).
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I'm not sure if a sub par Djokovic alone is tougher than Hewitt and Agassi combined. Especially since the latter 2 actually played better matches against Federer than Djokovic did against Nadal.

If Nadal had another similar opponent to beat at the USO other than that Djokovic, then he would have the edge, but he had no one else.
 
mike danny said:
I'm not sure if a sub par Djokovic alone is tougher than Hewitt and Agassi combined. Especially since the latter 2 actually played better matches against Federer than Djokovic did against Nadal.

If Nadal had another similar opponent to beat at the USO other than that Djokovic, then he would have the edge, but he had no one else.
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It is on mental aspect alone. His RG victory is one for the books. He proved himself King that day and I must bow down.

Yea the USO match wasn't Djokovic's best, but #1 Djokovic puts more fear into his opponents than Hewitt ever could and at the point, Agassi was no longer top 5. So I have I give it to Nadal.

Now his USO was weaker than Federer's so I give you that, but his RG victory evens the score. So it's a draw on Slams, and then when you add in the fact that Nadal played peak Djokovic 6 times, it clearly goes to Nadal.
 
NatF said:
The FO in 2013 was a legit great slam win, the SF is overrated but the draw was deep. Fed had the tougher USO win though clearly. Fed also had the much better loses in the slams.
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The AO 2005 win would have easily turned the competition argument in Fed's favor. Alas...
 
NoleFam said:
It is on mental aspect alone. His RG victory is one for the books. He proved himself King that day and I must bow down.

Yea the USO match wasn't Djokovic's best, but #1 Djokovic puts more fear into his opponents than Hewitt ever could and at the point, Agassi was no longer top 5. So I have I give it to Nadal.

Now his USO was weaker than Federer's so I give you that, but his RG victory evens the score. So it's a draw on Slams, and then when you add int he fact that Nadal played peak Djokovic 6 times, it clearly goes to Nadal.
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Who cares that Djokovic puts more fear into his opponents? He played 2 lousy slam finals at Wimb and the USO in 2013. That doesn't sound like inflicting fear into the opponents to me. You are now speaking in hindsight, but this wasn't the case in 2013.

If Djokovic actually played a proper USO final, he alone would easily be tougher than Hewitt and Agassi combined, but it wasn't the case. Agassi himself played a better match than Djokovic given his age and so did Hewitt given the match-up with Fed. Djokovic actually has the match-up advantage over Nadal on HC, so he had no excuse not to deliver a better performance.
 
NatF said:
The FO in 2013 was a legit great slam win, the SF is overrated but the draw was deep. Fed had the tougher USO win though clearly. Fed also had the much better loses in the slams.
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Nadal arguably had better competition in the masters, IMO.
 
Also, I dont think this should be a controversial take, the years are similar, they are 2 GOAT candidates right? It is not even Federer's 3rd best year results wise, and it is around Nadal's 3rd at least so why so controversial to think Nadal edges him lol?

Anyway its close but I go with Rafa here slightly because of who they beat in their slam wins as I said
 
mike danny said:
Who cares that Djokovic puts more fear into his opponents? He played 2 lousy slam finals at Wimb and the USO in 2013. That doesn't sound like inflicting fear into the opponents to me. You are now speaking in hindsight, but this wasn't the case in 2013.

If Djokovic actually played a proper USO final, he alone would easily be tougher than Hewitt and Agassi combined, but it wasn't the case. Agassi himself played a better match than Djokovic given his age and so did Hewitt given the match-up with Fed. Djokovic actually has the match-up advantage over Nadal on HC, so he had no excuse not to deliver a better performance.
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Nadal didn't play Djokovic at Wimbledon though so I'm not sure how this comes into discussion. You are solely talking about Nadal's competition versus Federer's so really the only matches that matter are the ones Nadal played. So you don't think players would fear playing 2013 Djokovic over 2005 Hewitt and 2005 Agassi? You might want to look at their results from those prospective years and who they were beating.

I already said Federer's USO win was more impressive, and I was talking about the RG win.
 
I really don't care where Nadal's wins land on the greatness scale. Of course beating Djokovic is more impressive than beating Roddick or Agassi. But being irrelevant at half the slams should automatically disqualify him from having a "better" season.
 
I wouldnt go by slam losses, it doesnt really matter unless you win, I would consider them if everything else was really equal, but first I consider quality of opponents in the wins.
 
Also @mike danny, you're ragging on Djokovic's level in the Wimbledon and USO finals but he played two marathons before both those finals against Del Potro and Wawrinka, and played a very high level in those. He just couldn't muster the energy needed after those matches to lift the trophy. What Djokovic did at 2013 AO trumps anything Hewitt or Agassi could produce in their years.
 
IMO, 2005 Fed is the second best 2-slam-winning season in OE. And no, 2013 Nadal is not the No1.
 
zagor said:
Fraud, by a solid margin.
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Yes. Let me know when Federer loses a slam match to a player outside top 100 in such a season. Took one of the greatest matches ever played for Safin to beat him at AO and a young speed demon Nadal at RG.

Federer's superior winning percentage, won titles on all three surfaces, best player on two out of three surfaces for the season, Nadal IMO best on clay only in 2013, Djokovic edges him out as best HC player overall for 2013, with a slam, a slam final, a WTF win.

Federer a factor in all four slams, Nadal a factor in only two slams. Seems pretty clear to me.
 
NoleFam said:
Also @mike danny, you're ragging on Djokovic's level in the Wimbledon and USO finals but he played two marathons before both those finals against Del Potro and Wawrinka, and played a very high level in those. He just couldn't muster the energy needed after those matches to lift the trophy. What Djokovic did at 2013 AO trumps anything Hewitt or Agassi could produce in their years.
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What does the AO have to do with Wimb and USO?

Fact is, for whatever reason, he just couldn't bring it in those finals. So that alone doesn't make it a tougher opponent than Hewitt and Agassi combined.
 
NoleFam said:
Nadal didn't play Djokovic at Wimbledon though so I'm not sure how this comes into discussion. You are solely talking about Nadal's competition versus Federer's so really the only matches that matter are the ones Nadal played. So you don't think players would fear playing 2013 Djokovic over 2005 Hewitt and 2005 Agassi? You might want to look at their results from those prospective years and who they were beating.

I already said Federer's USO win was more impressive, and I was talking about the RG win.
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The RG win was definitely better than any slam Fed won in 2005.

Not sure why we're still debating this if you agree Fed's USO win was better than Nadal's.
 
125downthemiddle said:
Also, I dont think this should be a controversial take, the years are similar, they are 2 GOAT candidates right? It is not even Federer's 3rd best year results wise, and it is around Nadal's 3rd at least so why so controversial to think Nadal edges him lol?

Anyway its close but I go with Rafa here slightly because of who they beat in their slam wins as I said
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Exactly, it's about who they beat.

Nadal's RG > any slam Fed won in 2005.

But Federer beat better players at the USO than Nadal. Nadal had an easy draw and Djokovic did not deliver in the final itself.
 
MeatTornado said:
I really don't care where Nadal's wins land on the greatness scale. Of course beating Djokovic is more impressive than beating Roddick or Agassi. But being irrelevant at half the slams should automatically disqualify him from having a "better" season.
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But Federer didn't only beat Agassi. Agassi alone isn't better than Djokovic, but Hewitt + Agassi should trump just a below par Djokovic.
 
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