better year by djokovic, 2013 or 2014?

D

dominikk1985

Legend
what do you think? obviously Novak finished number 1 this season but of course both nadal and murray had terrible seasons so he did not have much competition.

slam results:

2013: W, SF, F, F
2014: QF, F, W, SF

he won one slam in both years but had better Overall results in 2013.

he won the WTF in both years

Masters: 5 wins in 2014 vs 4 in 2013, edge 2014

Overall titles: both 7

record:
2013: 74-9
2014: 61-8
 
It is an interesting question. I can see arguments for both.

In 2013, he has the superior Major results and the losses are not "bad" relatively speaking (pushing Rafa to 5 at RG, homeboy Murray at Wimbledon, Rafa at USO). I'd say this easily makes up for the extra Masters in 2014. He also has a slightly superior win-loss record, even with playing 14 more matches. He did not finish year-end #1 however.

In 2014 he won the biggest prize in tennis, Wimbledon, for the second time over 7-time champion Federer in 5 sets. An epic Wimbledon final win over Fed enhances his reputation more so than the extra Australian Open in 2013 (even if that gave him the joint Open era record). Year-end #1 also is a really big deal to most people, far more than it is for me anyway. The loss to Nishikori looks "bad" relatively as that USO really felt like it should have been his.

I think Novak himself would pick 2014 due to becoming a multi-Wimbledon champion and the year-end #1.
 
Strobe Lights said:
It is an interesting question. I can see arguments for both.

In 2013, he has the superior Major results and the losses are not "bad" relatively speaking (pushing Rafa to 5 at RG, homeboy Murray at Wimbledon, Rafa at USO). I'd say this easily makes up for the extra Masters in 2014. He also has a slightly superior win-loss record, even with playing 14 more matches. He did not finish year-end #1 however.

In 2014 he won the biggest prize in tennis, Wimbledon, for the second time over 7-time champion Federer in 5 sets. An epic Wimbledon final win over Fed enhances his reputation more so than the extra Australian Open in 2013 (even if that gave him the joint Open era record). Year-end #1 also is a really big deal to most people, far more than it is for me anyway. The loss to Nishikori looks "bad" relatively as that USO really felt like it should have been his.

I think Novak himself would pick 2014 due to becoming a multi-Wimbledon champion and the year-end #1.
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Pretty much my thoughts exactly, certainly makes for an interesting comparison & debate.

Love to hear Djokovic's thoughts on which year he rated above the other.

As much as I'm inclined to say 2014 was a superior year for Djokovic (largely due to Wimbledon, RG Final & extra Masters) the fact he played 14 extra matches in 2013 for only one additional loss is hard to ignore. I don't have his schedules in front of me to compare so it's easy to assume these matches came in the form of 250/500 tournaments (obviously 2 were at AO & likely a couple at Rogers Cup & Cincinatti).

All things considered though I'll stick with 2014 as once you throw in YE#1 to the already impressive list it's hard to imagine Djokovic not being more satisfied professionally with 2014 over 2013...I think it's safe to assume on a personal level for Djokovic the same applies!
 
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To me, those 2 seasons were very similar.
Winter: in 2013, he started strong winning AO and Dubai but then didn't do very well in IW/Miami. He did the reverse in 2014.
Clay: also very similar: won M-C in 2013, Rome in 2014 but didn't do well in 2 other masters. Lost in 1st round in Madrid in 2013 vs skipping it in 2014. He made final in RG in 2014 but his match against Nadal was more competitive in 2013 (even though Nadal was playing better than in 2014)
Summer hard: probably the most disappointing season of his career there in 2014. Had done a bit better in 2013 in masters and reached the USO final (played a fantastic semi vs Wawa).
Fall and indoor: well, nothing could beat 2013 when he won everything! 2014 was almost the same except for Shanghai.
I kept grass for the end because I think that's the only surface where 2014 clearly beats 2013. He had a tricky draw both years but he really aced it in 2014 and beating Fed in a W final is always special.
Overall, I think his 2013 was a bit better but not by much.
 
2014 for the YE #1 prestige. 2013 was a bit better results-wise. It would be interesting to throw 2012 into the mix too! I think all three years were about equal...
 
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2014 was better just because he ended it at #1, and he ended it as the best player, neither which he did in 2013. However if your remove the YE#1 and recognition of the years best player factors entirely, I would say 2013. Purely results wise 2013 was slightly better, and his tennis was consistently better in 2013 too. 2013 just had a lot tougher competition for him than 2014 which was a really weak year for mens tennis had. 33 year old Federer who is still a shadow of even his 2010-2012 self (which was already clearly past his prime as well) very nearly ended it at #1 after all.
 
Djokovic will forever rue 2013, 2014 has a much more positive feel to it even though on paper they are pretty equal.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Why are all the Djokovic fans mourning 2013? Nadal was better, that's sports.
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I'm not a Djokovic fan.

Yes, Nadal was better, but that might not have been the case without Djokovic epic smashing chokes at Roland Garros. Djokovic has probably fallen into the net only once in his career, but he chose the worst time to do so. Certainly something to rue.
 
Gazelle said:
I'm not a Djokovic fan.

Yes, Nadal was better, but that might not have been the case without Djokovic epic smashing chokes at Roland Garros. Djokovic has probably fallen into the net only once in his career, but he chose the worst time to do so. Certainly something to rue.
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Oh, the drama there was after that point! *flashback*........LMFAO! Who elsed laughed after that point!?
 
2014 had higher peaks but lower lows. It's better due to the #1 ranking but I think 2013 was better in terms of results.
 
The Green Mile said:
Oh, the drama there was after that point! *flashback*........LMFAO! Who elsed laughed after that point!?
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I did. It was the instantaneous cause of me going from wanting Novak to win to wanting Rafa to win just for the hilarity. It is easily the most foolish thing a player has done in a big time match. Just let the ball bounce and put it away. I know he bottled doing that at the 2008 Olympics but still. Rafa pointing just topped the whole moment off.
 
It's common sense that Djokovic should have won the the SFs against Nadal in RG. He was extremely lucky and I can't believe Nadal fans are still claiming otherwise. The net thing decided the match, you don't win matches by getting free points in the last games and then say that he deserved it.
 
Strobe Lights said:
It is an interesting question. I can see arguments for both.

In 2013, he has the superior Major results and the losses are not "bad" relatively speaking (pushing Rafa to 5 at RG, homeboy Murray at Wimbledon, Rafa at USO). I'd say this easily makes up for the extra Masters in 2014. He also has a slightly superior win-loss record, even with playing 14 more matches. He did not finish year-end #1 however.

In 2014 he won the biggest prize in tennis, Wimbledon, for the second time over 7-time champion Federer in 5 sets. An epic Wimbledon final win over Fed enhances his reputation more so than the extra Australian Open in 2013 (even if that gave him the joint Open era record). Year-end #1 also is a really big deal to most people, far more than it is for me anyway. The loss to Nishikori looks "bad" relatively as that USO really felt like it should have been his.

I think Novak himself would pick 2014 due to becoming a multi-Wimbledon champion and the year-end #1.
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I pretty much concur with this statement, YE1 is a big deal. There's an argument for 2013 (ever so slightly better results), but without knowing his 2013-record vs. the top-10 at the top of my head right now, I would think his 2014 is better. I would say he played his best tennis from the fall season 2013 to the clay season this year and then again this fall season. His biggest problem has been to bring his very, very best level for the 3 summer slams imo.

As somebody else said, 2012 is pretty close too.
Strobe Lights said:
I did. It was the instantaneous cause of me going from wanting Novak to win to wanting Rafa to win just for the hilarity. It is easily the most foolish thing a player has done in a big time match. Just let the ball bounce and put it away. I know he bottled doing that at the 2008 Olympics but still. Rafa pointing just topped the whole moment off.
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it really did, didn't it? Still, I wanted Novak to win that match regardless.
 
I think 2012 was probably better than both 2013 and 2014. Higher level of play IMO and the best competition of the 3.
 
NatF said:
I think 2012 was probably better than both 2013 and 2014. Higher level of play IMO and the best competition of the 3.
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I think his 2012 AO level was a carryover from 2011 myself.
 
RF-18 said:
It's common sense that Djokovic should have won the the SFs against Nadal in RG. He was extremely lucky and I can't believe Nadal fans are still claiming otherwise. The net thing decided the match, you don't win matches by getting free points in the last games and then say that he deserved it.
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1. the stats beg to differ.

2. 22 winners.

3. If you touch the net you lose the point. mad?

4. Watch the point RIGHT before that one where Nadal has break point. Tell me how many times in his life he misses that FH. He should have broken there anyway. He even yelled out NOOOO in frustration after missing it.

5. Deal with it.
 
MichaelNadal said:
1. the stats beg to differ.

2. 22 winners.

3. If you touch the net you lose the point. mad?

4. Watch the point RIGHT before that one where Nadal has break point. Tell me how many times in his life he misses that FH. He should have broken there anyway. He even yelled out NOOOO in frustration after missing it.

5. Deal with it.
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The only point where Djokovic had the momentum to win the match was in the 5th, and he blew it with his horrendous overhead. Nadal also nearly bageled Djokovic on clay in the same match.
 
MichaelNadal said:
1. the stats beg to differ.

2. 22 winners.

3. If you touch the net you lose the point. mad?

4. Watch the point RIGHT before that one where Nadal has break point. Tell me how many times in his life he misses that FH. He should have broken there anyway. He even yelled out NOOOO in frustration after missing it.

5. Deal with it.
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Haha, I see Fed fans are getting to you Mike. You don't seem as immune as before :).
 
RF-18 said:
It's common sense that Djokovic should have won the the SFs against Nadal in RG.
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I suppose in the mental asylum where you reside, where crossing the street slowly when a huge transport is close by, eating cereal with a fork, or confusing a urinal for a water fountain, would all be common sense, this would be "common sense". In the real world, this has never been common sense, and only common sense Djokovic was soundly outplayed and if anything very lucky to be in a 5th set. The match stats say it all.
 
NatF said:
I think 2012 was probably better than both 2013 and 2014. Higher level of play IMO and the best competition of the 3.
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I couldn't disagree more and I don't see any part of the season for which 2012 would be better. He struggled to win AO that year (2 marathon matches), won nothing on clay (despite consistency), didn't get olympic medal, didn't even get to a grass final, won only Canada in summer hard and that was a weak field due to Olympics, won WTF but not Paris. It wasn't a bad season but I think it was the worst out of his last 4.
 
How is struggling to beat an insanely good Murray or Nadal a bad thing? That was IMO maybe the most impressive slam win of his career, as it is the only time he probably ever beat 2 players playing that well. He wouldn't have won the 2012 Australian Open with the form he showed at any of the 4 slams this year, that is for sure. In fact there are probably only 3 or 4 slams in his entire career he was playing well enough to win the 2012 Australian Open given what he faced on the other side in consecutive matches to win it.

What aspect of 2012 was superior to 2014? Well he reached 3 slam finals and lost in the semis of the other for starters. He didnt lose to the likes of Wawrinka and Nishikori in slams. Atleast in 2013 he matched his 2012 slam results.
 
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MichaelNadal said:
Why are all the Djokovic fans mourning 2013? Nadal was better, that's sports.
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Like you weren't mourning this year's AO final you mean? What's wrong with us Nole fans wishing he'd won at least one more Slam in 2013? Like you weren't feeling exactly the same in 2011. :rolleyes:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Like you weren't mourning this year's AO final you mean? What's wrong with us Nole fans wishing he'd won at least one more Slam in 2013? Like you weren't feeling exactly the same in 2011. :rolleyes:
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I still mourn Fed's USO 2009 and AO 09. Those were tough losses, since he should have won both.
 
punsalen said:
How is struggling to beat an insanely good Murray or Nadal a bad thing? That was IMO maybe the most impressive slam win of his career, as it is the only time he probably ever beat 2 players playing that well. He wouldn't have won the 2012 Australian Open with the form he showed at any of the 4 slams this year, that is for sure. In fact there are probably only 3 or 4 slams in his entire career he was playing well enough to win the 2012 Australian Open given what he faced on the other side in consecutive matches to win it.

What aspect of 2012 was superior to 2014? Well he reached 3 slam finals and lost in the semis of the other for starters. He didnt lose to the likes of Wawrinka and Nishikori in slams. Atleast in 2013 he matched his 2012 slam results.
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Yes, the AO 2012 effort was impressive but for the rest, tennis is not a consistency competition, what matters is to win titles!

OK. I'll give you winter hard: AO + Miami is better than AO+ Dubai or IW/Miami but for the rest?
1 master title on clay (2013, 2014) is better than 0, especially when it involves having to beat Nadal! I don't see a difference at RG: he lost to Nadal all 3 times (but if anything was closest to victory in 2013)
Winning W sure is better than lamely losing in straights to Murray or not even making the final.
Indoor: he did better in 2013 and 2014 by winning both Paris and WTF (he didn't win Paris in 2012)
summer/fall outdoor hard: 2014 was his worst but I would call a tie between 2012 and 2013: both times he made final of USO (his match was higher quality vs Nadal overall due to 2012 windgate) and both years he won 1 master: Canada/ Shanghai.
 
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I still would take 2012 over 2014 with clearly better slam results and still winning the WTF title both years. When you factor in the quality of competition in 2014 was absolutely terrible, and far and away worse than either 2012 or 2013, it sides even more with 2012.

IMO in both level of play and probably results Djokovic 2013 > Djokovic 2012 > Djokovic 2014. Of course 2013 is the only year he wasn't the #1 nor the years best player despite being a superior player, playing better tennis, and attaining better results than either 2012 or 2014, as that is the only year Nadal played a whole season which would naturally always bump Djokovic to 2nd best at most, with the exception of 2011.
 
punsalen said:
Of course 2013 is the only year he wasn't the #1 nor the years best player despite being a superior player, playing better tennis, and attaining better results than either 2012 or 2014, as that is the only year Nadal played a whole season which would naturally always bump Djokovic to 2nd best at most, with the exception of 2011.
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Ha ha sorry I didn't realize you were trolling. Actually, Rafa DID play a full season in 2011, not so much in 2013 when he skipped AO, Miami and W so to speak, Nadal really wasn't the reason for Djoko losing in W final that year (Neither had Nadal anything to do with Djoko losing to Fed and Murray on grass in 2012). Nadal's playing indoor season in the fall of 2013 really didn't bother Djoko 1 bit (that was his best indoor season ever) and Djoko did worse in 2014 when Nadal was AWOL in the summer than in 2013 when Nadal won everything!
On clay of course, Nadal has a huge impact and that's true every year.

In conclusion: both Nadal and Djoko can finish the year at #1 (they're tie at 3 seaons finishing #1) but it is not clear how one's form impacts the other's, except for clay. There are a few other players in the mix after all that Nadalovic can lose to ;))
 
I am not trolling in the least. It is reality Djokovic has only been #1 1 year Nadal played a whole season ever, and it was in Djokovic's clearly and by far best season of tennis ever (which he will never reproduce). 2012 Nadal would have had a huge shot at being #1 for the year had he been able to play the year out. Heck if he didn't choke at the end of their Australian Open final he would have ended that year as the best player despite playing only half the year. 2014 his whole year was wrecked massively by injuries, including being injured in the midst of a slam final he was heavily favored to win even before the large chunks of time missed in action entirely, yet he still managed the same # of slam wins and slam finals as Djokovic, so just imagine had he been able to play a full season relatively healthy. Pretty easy to see what likely would have happened.

Your point on 2013 indoor season is a meaningless one. I never said healthy Nadal will dominate indoors. Good for Djokovic having a great indoor season in 2013, but in the end it didn't change Nadal easily collecting the points to consolidate #1 for the year, and being by far the best player in the world for the year 2013, despite Djokovic performing better than either 2012 or 2014 where with Nadal largely absent he was the #1 and best player in the world, unlike 2013 where he was clearly 2nd fiddle.

Djokovic did play better tennis and produce better results in 2013 than either 2012 or 2014. That is the consensus of nearly all in this thread. Yet he was still not the #1 or best player of the year 2013, since Nadal was healthy and playing well most of the year and when that occurs that is the only logical conclusion to what will happen (still missing 2 months but not enough to typically be #2 behind Djokovic).
 
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Wow you're just totally rambling now. 2011 was Nadal's last full season. So your logic is that Djoko had his best season in 2011 BECAUSE Nadal played a full season and had relatively less good seasons afterwards BECAUSE Nadal didn't? Well then Djoko probably hopes Nadal will play a full season in 2015, so he can have another 2011 while Nadal will hope to skip part of the season to have a better chance at dominating. :shock:

No fail logic :)
 
veroniquem said:
Wow you're just totally rambling now. 2011 was Nadal's last full season. So your logic is that Djoko had his best season in 2011 BECAUSE Nadal played a full season and had relatively less good seasons afterwards BECAUSE Nadal didn't? Well then Djoko probably hopes Nadal will play a full season in 2015, so he can have another 2011 while Nadal will hope to skip part of the season to have a better chance at dominating. :shock:

No fail logic :)
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You are really an incredibly stupid women aren't you. I already acknowledged 2011, but that is by far the best year of tennis Djokovic has ever produced or will ever produce. Not surprisingly that is the only year he has ever managed to be #1 with Nadal playing a relatively full season.
 
veroniquem said:
Wow you're just totally rambling now. 2011 was Nadal's last full season. So your logic is that Djoko had his best season in 2011 BECAUSE Nadal played a full season and had relatively less good seasons afterwards BECAUSE Nadal didn't? Well then Djoko probably hopes Nadal will play a full season in 2015, so he can have another 2011 while Nadal will hope to skip part of the season to have a better chance at dominating. :shock:

No fail logic :)
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You're wasting your time vero. It's yet another one of NadalAgassi's numerous double accounts so I really wouldn't bother if I were you. Why the mods can't ban this troll for good I'll never know.
 
punsalen said:
You are really an incredibly stupid women aren't you. I already acknowledged 2011, but that is by far the best year of tennis Djokovic has ever produced or will ever produce. Not surprisingly that is the only year he has ever managed to be #1 with Nadal playing a relatively full season.
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So this has become a Djoko bashing thing now? Nothing to do with comparing 2013 and 2014? I sort of suspected that all along ;)

Well, if this has become a comparison between Nadal and Djoko overall, then I have to say I'm an admirer of both guys. They both have 3 year ends at #1, they could end up with similar overall #weeks at #1, they both have 2 W titles. Rafa owns clay of course, Djoko is so good indoor. They will probably end in the same ballpark for master titles. Nadal has more slams, Novak has more WTFs. I love both guys, I think they're both very talented in different ways and I think they bring the best in each other and- hum- I think that's all I have to say on the subject.
Oh and I think both have the potential to win more tier 1 events and add more weeks at #1 (although the #1 may be more of a challenge for Nadal if he can't go back to playing full seasons and especially all slams)
 
veroniquem said:
I couldn't disagree more and I don't see any part of the season for which 2012 would be better. He struggled to win AO that year (2 marathon matches), won nothing on clay (despite consistency), didn't get olympic medal, didn't even get to a grass final, won only Canada in summer hard and that was a weak field due to Olympics, won WTF but not Paris. It wasn't a bad season but I think it was the worst out of his last 4.
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His level at the AO and USO was significantly better in 2012 than 2013, and in terms of level at the WTF I feel 2014 > 2012 >~ 2013. So at 3 of the biggest tournaments I think his level was better in 2012. He didn't win Paris in 2012 but he won Shanghai.

Aside from that unbeaten run in 2013 at the end of the year he was clearly better in 2012. In 2013 he went through a stretch from Monte Carlo to Bejing where he didn't win a title. He also only made one finals appearence between Monte Carlo and the USO.

I feel 2012 was just superior.
 
NatF said:
His level at the AO and USO was significantly better in 2012 than 2013, and in terms of level at the WTF I feel 2014 > 2012 >~ 2013. So at 3 of the biggest tournaments I think his level was better in 2012. He didn't win Paris in 2012 but he won Shanghai.

Aside from that unbeaten run in 2013 at the end of the year he was clearly better in 2012. In 2013 he went through a stretch from Monte Carlo to Bejing where he didn't win a title. He also only made one finals appearence between Monte Carlo and the USO.

I feel 2012 was just superior.
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I considered overall not just 4 slams + WTF. Again for me, winning titles is more important than making finals (even slam finals) but that doesn't really matter in this case because I think, in the end, all of 2012, 13 and 14 were pretty close (also USO was not better in 2012 than 2013.)
He won 5 tier 1 in 2012, 5 in 2013 and 6 in 2014.
Personally I'll take 6 over 5! (especially if # of slams won is the same)
 
veroniquem said:
I considered overall not just 4 slams + WTF. Again for me, winning titles is more important than making finals (even slam finals) but that doesn't really matter in this case because I think, in the end, all of 2012, 13 and 14 were pretty close (also USO was not better in 2012 than 2013.)
He won 5 tier 1 in 2012, 5 in 2013 and 6 in 2014.
Personally I'll take 6 over 5! (especially if # of slams won is the same)
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He was definitely better at the USO in 2012. He dominated opponents when not hindered by wind - he demolished a strong Del Potro.

I'd take an extra slam final over a masters...
 
punsalen said:
You are really an incredibly stupid women aren't you. I already acknowledged 2011, but that is by far the best year of tennis Djokovic has ever produced or will ever produce. Not surprisingly that is the only year he has ever managed to be #1 with Nadal playing a relatively full season.
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I frequently disagree with veroniquem, but stupid? No. And she is usually pretty polite. If anyone is out of line here, it's you.
 
Nole won Wimbledon in 2014 and AO in 2013. Wimbledon is more prestigious than AO

Nole won 4 Masters in 2014 and in 3 in 2013.
 
NatF said:
He was definitely better at the USO in 2012. He dominated opponents when not hindered by wind - he demolished a strong Del Potro.

I'd take an extra slam final over a masters...
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I'd take any year at #1 if I was a tennis player to be honest!!
I'm also confused about that extra slam final business. Djoko had 3 slam finals in 2011, 2012 and 2013. How is that for consistency? (And how does that make 2012 better than 2013?)
But yeah I guess I would take an extra master won over a slam final lost.
I understand people feeling differently but to each their own as they say.

(thanks Gary!)
 
veroniquem said:
I'd take any year at #1 if I was a tennis player to be honest!!
I'm also confused about that extra slam final business. Djoko had 3 slam finals in 2011, 2012 and 2013. How is that for consistency? (And how does that make 2012 better than 2013?)
But yeah I guess I would take an extra master won over a slam final lost.
I understand people feeling differently but to each their own as they say.

(thanks Gary!)
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Yes but in 2013 and maybe 2012 (?) his results this year might not of been good enough for a year end #1. Obviously this year is de facto the best because he got that #1 ranking. I'm talking more level of play here now

It makes 2012 arguably better than 2014, obviously 2013 was the same. Fair enough regarding the masters and slam finals business. I think there's more fame and prestige in losing in a slam final than winning a masters.
 
regarding the YE#1:

novak actually had more points after 2013 (12.260) vs 2014 (11.510)

not saying 2013 is better but it is definitely close.

I think both years have been slightly dissapointing for him. winning a slam in each year was a good achievement but with fed declining and nadals body falling apart (and the weak new generations) I would have asumed novak would have won 2-3 slams in those years. he is still the best player in tennis but he couldn't really follow up on his great 2011 (when he faced much tougher competition with fed and nadal being closer to their primes).
 
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