Bianca Andreescu!

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
This is just too funny.

Fun fact: multiple players can call fake MTO's and be drama queens. Everyone knows Caroline is and has a reputation. I never said she wasn't a drama queen. For some reason though, you can't bring yourself to question Bianca's and instead go after other players instead. Why?

Those stats don't change what Bianca did though does it??
You think that she skipped eight months for fun? I doubt it.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Crying wolf:
call for help when it is not needed, with the effect that one is not believed when one really does need help.

I don’t believe all 5 of her MTO’s and the issue with that is, by the time it was real, nobody was buying it including Kerber. Pretty simple.

I’ve just found that she in fact took ANOTHER MTO in Auckland, this time against Babos in the 1R. And no it wasn’t for a shoulder injury. So that makes 6 MTO’s in 8 months. 5 times she went on to win the match, the other time playing matches days later and winning 4 of them.

In Auckland it was for a hip injury and then against Woz it was a back injury. She came good to win both matches and make the final and then qualify for the Australian open. Surely even you see how this is getting INCREDIBLY unbelievable? Surely.... 6 MTO’s in 8 months and winning 5 of those matches.
MTO's should be renamed TTO's.
Tactical Time Outs.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
According to this list Wozniacki used 8 MTO before Aug 2017 in the same year.

Did Darcy say anything about this then?

Caroline Wozniacki:
(1) Sydney - 1 - Right Ankle vs Strycova
(2) Dubai - 1 - Left thigh vs Bondarenko
(3) Indian Wells - 2 - Right Ankle vs Keys &
(4) Indian Wells Right Ankle vs Mladenovic
(5) Miami - 1 - Right Ankle vs Konta
(6) Bastad - 1 - Right wrist vs Siniakova
(7) Niculescu in R1 of Madrid (shoulder)
(8) Heather Watson at the SF in Eastbourne (abdominal strain)
How did you pull that info up?
Is there a MTO Wiki on each WTA/ATP player?
 

I Am Finnish

Talk Tennis Guru
I love drama thats actually one of the reason why I am following WTA ;)

She is not the only one who does it with MTO's. Yastremska does it too and many others. I think with time she will find out its unnecessary and she can win without it. Nadal did it too in early stages, Djokovic as well.
The most hilarious was Tsitsipas shoelaces issues :-D

After that Paire lost his rhythm and could not win a game :-D
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Injuries are a concern with someone so young... and God help her if she wins the U.S. Open, she'll just follow the example of other women who have won recent grand slams and then suddenly become mediocre....Stephens, Osaka, Barty, Ostapenko, Kerber sort of.
Osaka won back to back majors. That is the opposite of "mediocre."

If Serena was sport enough
Absolute nonsense, but you will only apply that to Serena because you hate her.

I don't doubt she had back spasms that affected her serve but she preferred not to complete a set and retire after that just because she figured she was about to be destroyed.
Note the word you use: "destroyed." More nonsense and your wish fulfillment based on an off the charts worship of Bianca.

Did she play it in both matches? No? Did she win the match? No?

There’s your answer. One MTO is believable, two sure, three maybe. SIX? 6? Pull your head out and take off the rose coloured glasses man.
He will never do that because Bianca is "perfect" for reasons not entirely based on her game. Her TW fans make every excuse in the book for her, while trying to tear down everyone else. Look at the unjustified crap they are posting about Kerber.

This is just incredible! Serena has two retirements this year, one coming in tears and you criticise her for ruining someone’s moment. Bianca pulls a MTO SIX times (goes on to win 5 of the 6 matches too), annoying the hell out of players and you believe every single one? My god the double standards are unreal. Kerber saw through the BS, she was rude with her criticism but anyone with a brain can see what Bianca does.
Of course. "Ruining a moment"--such one sided, obsessive BS. Kerber was likely right, but in their minds, Kerber is bitter (yeah, sure), and Serena is faking injury (because they are on court to know...not), but Bianca is above questioning. The reasons for the double standards are clear, and have nothing to do with tennis.
 

Sparlingo

Professional
Hypothesis: If a person likes Bianca then they defend her against charges of drama-queenery. If a person doesn't like her then she is a drama queen.

Experiment: Working on how to test the hypothesis, to be determined.

Conclusion: None

My private opinion that conflicts with the hypothesis: I like her and she is a drama queen. May as well get used to it folks, Bianca will ever be a polarizing figure in tennis. She may not be all that likeable to a lot of people, but her tennis game is superb, sublime. So is her mind game. Both her and her mind games are not pretty but both do the job of winning. Her actual tennis game is pretty. This debate will never be over.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Hypothesis: If a person likes Bianca then they defend her against charges of drama-queenery. If a person doesn't like her then she is a drama queen.

Experiment: Working on how to test the hypothesis, to be determined.

Conclusion: None

My private opinion that conflicts with the hypothesis: I like her and she is a drama queen. May as well get used to it folks, Bianca will ever be a polarizing figure in tennis. She may not be all that likeable to a lot of people, but her tennis game is superb, sublime. So is her mind game. Both her and her mind games are not pretty but both do the job of winning. Her actual tennis game is pretty. This debate will never be over.
I agree.
You're going to have to work awfully hard on how to test that hypothesis of yours because I also really like her game but not her drama. :)

As to her drama. It's nowhere close to the obnoxious drama of say a McEnroe, so I can live with it.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
More top pros should work with sports psychologists to deal with the fake MTO, stalling, rhythm breaking behaviors exhibited by many players. They know it's coming, why not prepare for it? There is no excuse to get so upset over something so predictable. They need to learn to let this stuff go and concentrate on winning strategies instead of being so mad and bitter.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
Oh - so she wasn’t vulturing, she was just lazy. Sorry, my mistake.
So if she was lazy as a JUNIOR, why would she have done well on the PRO tour?

You make no sense dude.

People mature at different times, Maybe when she hit 18 something clicked and she was ready for the PRO game.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
More top pros should work with sports psychologists to deal with the fake MTO, stalling, rhythm breaking behaviors exhibited by many players. They know it's coming, why not prepare for it? There is no excuse to get so upset over something so predictable. They need to learn to let this stuff go and concentrate on winning strategies instead of being so mad and bitter.
Exactly.

Just like in Football & Basketball, timeouts are part of the game...medical or strategic.

I'm sure players would all vote to keep MTO's rather than do away with them.

If you know it's coming just prepare for it mentally.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Not just back-to-back, but DEBUT majors!
When was the last time someone did that?
To some in this thread it does not matter, as they writer her and/or her performance as "mediocre", yet the subject of this thread is treated like the greatest player of the past few generations, Agenda, bias and obsession will not turn Adreescu into a great player..
 

donquijote

Legend
This is just too funny.

Fun fact: multiple players can call fake MTO's and be drama queens. Everyone knows Caroline is and has a reputation. I never said she wasn't a drama queen. For some reason though, you can't bring yourself to question Bianca's and instead go after other players instead. Why?

Those stats don't change what Bianca did though does it??
So you're not answering the question Did you ever critisize Caroline for those MTOs or not? But you're doing it to a 18-19 yo who had worse injuries.

How did you pull that info up?
Is there a MTO Wiki on each WTA/ATP player?
I got the info from MTF (mens tennis forum) as far as I remember. :)
 

donquijote

Legend
To some in this thread it does not matter, as they writer her and/or her performance as "mediocre", yet the subject of this thread is treated like the greatest player of the past few generations, Agenda, bias and obsession will not turn Adreescu into a great player..
LOL
19 year old who climbed from #178 to #14 in just 9 months and won two mandatory tournaments, 7-0 against Top 10 in 2019 and that is despite the injuries.
Already a great player to me and to most people who know about tennis including Rod Laver who twitted "A star is born" after Bianca's IW victory in March.
 
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Sparlingo

Professional
To some in this thread it does not matter, as they writer her and/or her performance as "mediocre", yet the subject of this thread is treated like the greatest player of the past few generations, Agenda, bias and obsession will not turn Adreescu into a great player..
They "writer her" do they? "As mediocre"? Who?
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
LOL
19 year old who climbed from #178 to #14 in just 9 months and won two mandatory tournaments, 7-0 against Top 10 in 2019 and that is despite the injuries.
Already a great player to me and to most people who know about tennis including Rod Laver who twitted "A star is born" after Bianca's IW victory in March.
Has anyone in history ever climbed that many ranking spots so fast??

Plus she did all that only playing at one major, right?
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Osaka won back to back majors. That is the opposite of "mediocre."
And then lost in the first round of Wimbledon and 3rd round Roland Garros and hasn't made a final in any tournament since the Aussie open. The women seem to have this problem staying at there peak. But admittedly if it weren't for Nadal/Djokovic and Fed in the ATP, the men would be having the same issue. Sustained excellence is a challenge.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Do you genuinely believe that all six she's taken this year have been genuine, none have been done tactically or to stop momentum, change things up a bit? All were legit and not to play some mind games/ have drama? Honestly?
I absolutely believe that neither you nor I know what any player is experiencing in the moment and I'd rather assume most players use their MTO's because something is indeed hurting. It takes a cynical soul to believe all these MTO's are just to get momentum flipped.

I mean really, if I had something become sore in a match and I started to lose points and games, you can bet your sweet patootie I'm calling an MTO before the damage physically and on the scoreboard gets too severe.

With Andreescu I suspect almost all her MTO's have been legit given her history of having to take months off to heal various physical ailments.
But I can't know for sure just as you can't know that any of them were "crying wolf".

Regardless, I like her game. I like that she shows emotion on the court. I don't care if she's faking her MTO's but I don't believe that's knowable or at all likely.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
And then lost in the first round of Wimbledon and 3rd round Roland Garros and hasn't made a final in any tournament since the Aussie open.
When is the last time a new male player made and won their first two majors finals? The ATP is populated by the truly mediocre players on life support brought to you by 3 granddaddies.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
LOL
19 year old who climbed from #178 to #14 in just 9 months and won two mandatory tournaments, 7-0 against Top 10 in 2019 and that is despite the injuries.
...said in the same thread where a woman who won her first two majors finals appearances is called mediocre. Yeah, there's much selective praise and BS surrounding Andreescu (who is no "great player" yet), while others who have actually lived up to the demands of the job are trashed.
 
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Dartagnan64

Legend
When is the last time a new male player made and won their first two majors finals? The ATP is populated by the truly mediocre players on life support brought to you by 3 granddaddies.
If there weren't these grandaddies then people like Milos Raonic and Kevin Anderson might have 3 slams and be ahead of Osaka.

I don't believe Osaka is a mediocre. Great talent. I believe she's faded after a hot year and posted mediocre results the last 6 months. Will she regain form or fall into the abyss like Genie Bouchard? Neither of us know. But it's been a trend in the WTA.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
She needs to shed a few kilos, to move quicker and tire less easily.

But game-wise, she is far more interesting than 99% of the other WTA pros.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
How many majors has Osaka won without Sasha's game plan?

She's pretty one dimensional. All power. Nothing else.

I saw her trying to practice BH slices at Indian Wells & it literally looked like her first time ever trying them. She was asking her coach if her grip looked correct and he was showing her how to turn her shoulders. 7 out of 10 attempts were going straight in the net. It was hilarious. My kid was asking me why Osaka doesn't know how to hit a slice lol.

Bianca would abuse Osaka in a match. Hard ball, High ball, Drop Shot, Lob, Slice BH, Slice FH, Big FH. GAME OVER.

Osaka is basically Andy Roddick or Leyton Hewitt. Decent players who snuck in their majors before the big guns showed up.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
How many majors has Osaka won without Sasha's game plan?

She's pretty one dimensional. All power. Nothing else.
She--unlike the player some are worshiping in this thread--has won back to back majors. There is no conclusion one can reach that rationally praises Adreescu while tearing down Osaka. None.

Bianca would abuse Osaka in a match. Hard ball, High ball, Drop Shot, Lob, Slice BH, Slice FH, Big FH. GAME OVER.
Wishful thinking, Call us when she wins back to back majors.

Osaka is basically Andy Roddick or Leyton Hewitt. Decent players who snuck in their majors before the big guns showed up.
Absolutely nonsensical. What "big guns" are showing up? Could it be the subject of this thread? If that's what you're implying, you are deep into fantasyland, considering her majors record up to this date. Further, the WTA has a large number of active players who have won majors, so the field is strong and anything other than easy, yet Osaka still succeeded. But, let's see how the "wonder girl" of this thread fares at the US Open. If she were able to win it, great, but if she maintains the same kind of performance seen at the other majors, then some will need to stop conning themselves.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
So you're not answering the question Did you ever critisize Caroline for those MTOs or not? But you're doing it to a 18-19 yo who had worse injuries.


I got the info from MTF (mens tennis forum) as far as I remember. :)
I believe I did criticitize her, I mean I don't have the direct quotes cause i'm not that heavily invested but we've long known that Caroline is a drama queen. Even though I asked my question first, you still won't answer me whether you truly believe all 6 of her MTO's, you don't think any were tactical? I answered yours, now answer mine.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
I absolutely believe that neither you nor I know what any player is experiencing in the moment and I'd rather assume most players use their MTO's because something is indeed hurting. It takes a cynical soul to believe all these MTO's are just to get momentum flipped.

I mean really, if I had something become sore in a match and I started to lose points and games, you can bet your sweet patootie I'm calling an MTO before the damage physically and on the scoreboard gets too severe.

With Andreescu I suspect almost all her MTO's have been legit given her history of having to take months off to heal various physical ailments.
But I can't know for sure just as you can't know that any of them were "crying wolf".

Regardless, I like her game. I like that she shows emotion on the court. I don't care if she's faking her MTO's but I don't believe that's knowable or at all likely.
Congratulations on completely flipping my post.

Not only did you confirm that you do suspect at least one of her MTO's are fake (as I said, never did I once say all of her MTO's were fake or even the majority, just at least one of her SIX) but you also confirmed that you don't care if she's faking MTO's so why are you arguing then? I too like her game as i've said numerous times, i'm just calling out the fake MTO's which you APPARENTLY now don't care about?

Funny that, why argue then? The freaking original point from you was you asking about where the drama was coming from (here's your post)

Still trying to figure out the drama. Do we doubt these injuries are legit? I mean do players withdraw from the FO and Wimbledon to keep up a facade of being injured?

Does looking fatigued in a match qualify as drama? I mean Sampras had the Hang Dog look mastered and no one called him dramatic. Is it sexism that seeing open displays of pain and emotion in women are “drama”.

She’s a 19 year old competitive kid. She’s won two Premiere events this year despite taking 3 months off. She plays a varied all court game that’s far more entertaining than most women to watch. I just don’t know where the hate is coming from.
And then I replied saying what i've said all thread which is why some view her as a drama queen.


Lots of tactical MTO's. Acts like she's down and out and can't move and then suddenly runs around like she never had an injury concern. Did it against Wozniacki in Auckland (went on to win the match) did it against Kerber in the Indian Wells final (went on to win the match), did it again in Miami against Kerber after losing the 2nd set but went on to win the match hence the dramaqueen comments since it happened in back to back matches). Did it again against Pliskova this week (went on to win the match).

She's only 19 but she's already making her mark on the tour with all these BS MTO's. Four this year alone, every time going on to win the match (they're might be more I forgot about?).
And yet 2 pages later, you've admitted you actually don't care if the MTO's are fake or not (which is completely fine) but why are you arguing then? That's why she's seen as a drama queen. That's the answer. You apparently don't care but that doesn't mean others like Kerber and other posters here don't.
 
I don't have a problem with using a fake MTO or a slightly longer toilet break as a tactics. It must be within the rules of course but in basketball coaches also use time outs to disrupt rhythm.

Imo tennis should allow for one 3 minute time out per match no matter of injured or not. You can use it for tactical reasons but if you take it for tactics and then you really get injured you don't get another one so choose wisely.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
And yet 2 pages later, you've admitted you actually don't care if the MTO's are fake or not (which is completely fine) but why are you arguing then? That's why she's seen as a drama queen. That's the answer. You apparently don't care but that doesn't mean others like Kerber and other posters here don't.
Yes, and as you see, this crazed defense/unjustified crowning of Andreescu leads to a full acceptance of cheating. At all costs, she has to have an advantage, but let any other player do that, and there would be calls for the player to be banned from the sport

Complete hypocrisy.
 

donquijote

Legend
I believe I did criticitize her, I mean I don't have the direct quotes cause i'm not that heavily invested but we've long known that Caroline is a drama queen. Even though I asked my question first, you still won't answer me whether you truly believe all 6 of her MTO's, you don't think any were tactical? I answered yours, now answer mine.
No question she had health issues for a long time. Out of 6, possibly 1 or 2 were tactical, or let's say to get some relief during the match as she was bothered. She doesn't annoy me like Woz, so I didn't dig much into it. Are you happy now? lol
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
"Hi, I'm Biancaaa! I listen to hip-hop so yeah, that means you have to take me seriously!!!"

On a more serious note, she has a great game. Could be the future 3-month dominator (i.e. wins a slam, becomes no 1 then drops out of the top 10).
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Such a good player to watch. I rarely find WTA interesting but her game is top notch. Hope she stays healthy, although for that she might have to lose some weight. She looks too thicc for a tennis player atm.
 

Spanglish72

Rookie
Taylor Townsend up next...Bianca is gonna have to be sharp with her passing shots and lobs.

Bianca is pretty comfortable up at net herself, so it might not be a bad idea to take away the net from Townsend first.
 

SumYungGai

Semi-Pro
Taylor Townsend up next...Bianca is gonna have to be sharp with her passing shots and lobs.

Bianca is pretty comfortable up at net herself, so it might not be a bad idea to take away the net from Townsend first.
Omg pls the lobs. I don;t understand why players haven't really used them against Taylor. She closes so far that the lobs don't even have to be that good. It's like players only think about side to side and not forward and back.
 

donquijote

Legend
Bianca will not need the lobs if she returns the ball early. Townsend seems like a very nice girl by the way from what I can tell from post match interview.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Omg pls the lobs. I don;t understand why players haven't really used them against Taylor. She closes so far that the lobs don't even have to be that good. It's like players only think about side to side and not forward and back.
Look like dippers worked just find. Just step into the serves and get the returns to her feet. That seemed to be what worked best. Good match with Taylor. Good practice to face someone that does something different.

Wish Bianca was better at keeping her focus when she's cruising. Got very loose with points in the second set. Lots of UE's on short balls.

Onto Bertens, but for her second grand slam, it's been a successful tourney so far.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Such a good player to watch. I rarely find WTA interesting but her game is top notch. Hope she stays healthy, although for that she might have to lose some weight. She looks too thicc for a tennis player atm.
Plenty of Thick (or should we say Big-Boned) Women have won grand slam titles. Williams, Klijsters, Davenport.
Agree that she could up her fitness to both help her game and long term health, but I don't think it will stop her in the short term from winning at this level.
 

donquijote

Legend
Look like dippers worked just find. Just step into the serves and get the returns to her feet. That seemed to be what worked best. Good match with Taylor. Good practice to face someone that does something different.

Wish Bianca was better at keeping her focus when she's cruising. Got very loose with points in the second set. Lots of UE's on short balls.

Onto Bertens, but for her second grand slam, it's been a successful tourney so far.
Mertens, not Bertens LOL I know it's easy to mix those names up.
 
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