Big 10 Tennis

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Clemson_tennis

Legend
Will Wilson said:
Big Ten has four teams ranked in the top 20. Ohio state, Michigan, Illinois and Minnesota.


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There seems to be quite a distance behind these 4 teams though. Only Penn State looks like a tournament team outside of those 4 but they are capable of head scratching losses as well. Northwestern and Indiana will likely be on the outside looking in.
 
W

Will Wilson

Semi-Pro
Minnesota moves up to 15, right behind Illinois at 14 and Michigan at 13. And of course Ohio state in the top spot


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J

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Interesting weekend for Big 10. Before this weekend, it seemed there were only 4 contenders in the Big 10- OSU, Illinois, Michigan, and Minnesota- all ranked in top 20. Now Penn State defeated Michigan and Minnesota lost to both Iowa and Nebraska (?!!!). Was this weekend just a fluke or are there other schools that have a chance at spots 2-4 in the conference and a chance at NCAAs? Minnesota is now 1-2 and could be 1-4 in Big 10 if they lose to Penn State in PA as well as OSU next weekend.
 
jhick

jhick

Hall of Fame
Clemson_tennis said:
I cannot believe that Nebraska beat Minnesota. One of those results that you can't really make sense of.
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While disappointing, the Iowa loss could be explained by an off day and maybe Minnesota wasn't at their best. But the Nebraska loss is much more puzzling. #1 Boyer played HS tennis in MN so maybe he was extra pumped to play against the Gophs.
 
W

Will Wilson

Semi-Pro
I knew the Gophs were ranked to high but the whole weekend was bizarre. Maybe they started to feel the expectations


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jhick

jhick

Hall of Fame
Minnesota is now in a serious free fall. They lose 2-5 to Penn St. and then blanked 7-0 by Ohio St. (1-4 in the conference).
 
W

Will Wilson

Semi-Pro
JJ Wolf is really putting together a dominant season. Not only is he winning but he is rolling guys. Might be time for the tour


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G

Gracelhink

Rookie
Agree re. Wolf,
I believe his floor will be ATP 150 in 1 year.
His ceiling could potentially be top 25 in 3 years.
I have told many OSU fans, we will need to appreciate him this year ...
 
J

jmnk

Hall of Fame
I've watched Ohio beat northwestern on Friday (not that it was a surprise or anything) and honestly I do not know how they managed to lose two matches. They are soooo good. That being said I still don't know why JJ wins all the time. Must be his short, well, shorts... [emoji6]

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M

Mrs.Weasley

Rookie
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O

Okes

New User
jmnk said:
I've watched Ohio beat northwestern on Friday (not that it was a surprise or anything) and honestly I do not know how they managed to lose two matches. They are soooo good. That being said I still don't know why JJ wins all the time. Must be his short, well, shorts... [emoji6]

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They only lost 1 match.
 
J

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Mrs.Weasley said:

This is not an isolated incident with McNally. It is nice to see McNally recognized. Too bad there are not consequences for cheating. It is also a shame that line judges very rarely do their jobs and prevent this kind of nonsense.
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I was watching the match on livestream at the time. I think Kovacevic had just lost to Wolf in 2nd set TB. Brown was hanging in there, and if the right call had been, he would have had a chance of forcing a 3rd set . Several of the Illinois coaches ran over to talk to the ref to no avail. Real shame for this close match to be affected by an obviously bad call. Alex Brown, after not playing well early in the season, was keeping up with McNally. This was one of the closest matches OSU has had indoors with Illinois losing 3 2nd set TBs. Maybe karma will hit OSU, and Illinois will win at Big 10. I am a fan of both teams having watched JJ Wolf and Zeke and Kovacevic when they were freshmen playing in Athens at NCAA team championships in 2017. They all had great energy and effort. As good as OSU is, players should have confidence in winning without cheating.

There were a lot of spectators at the match. Whenever a flagrant bad call like this happens, college tennis loses-new spectators may be turned off, and parents of juniors/prospective future college players may wonder if it is worth the expense of playing tennis if cheating is tolerated. Of course there is some cheating in the juniors, but that is without refs on court. Sad when cheating goes on with ref on court- you'd think they could stay focused for tiebreaks especially when it is a clinching line.
 
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O

Okes

New User
jcgatennismom said:
I was watching the match on livestream at the time. I thought the bad call was at 5-4 in the tiebreak. I think Kovacevic had just lost to Wolf in 2nd set TB. Brown was hanging in there, and I thought if the right call had been made the score would have been 5-5. Several of the Illinois coaches ran over to talk to the ref to no avail. McNally was up a set so even if he had lost the TB, he obviously bad call. Alex Brown, after not playing well early in the season, was keeping up with McNally. This was one of the closest matches OSU has had indoors with Illinois losing 3 2nd set TBs. Maybe karma will hit OSU, and Illinois will win at Big 10. I am a fan of both teams having watched JJ Wolf and Zeke and Kovacevic when they were freshmen playing in Athens at NCAA team championships in 2017. They all had great energy and effort. As good as OSU is, players should have confidence in winning without cheating.

There were a lot of spectators at the match. Whenever a flagrant bad call like this happens, college tennis loses-new spectators may be turned off, and parents of juniors/prospective future college players may wonder if it is worth the expense of playing tennis if cheating is tolerated. Of course there is some cheating in the juniors, but that is without refs on court. Sad when cheating goes on with ref on court- you'd think they could stay focused for tiebreaks especially when it is a clinching line.
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C

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Okes said:
The 5 court was still playing. This was not do or did for Ohio state. The kid didn’t cheat to win the match. He was up anyway. It was one close call and he saw the ball as out. The video is deceiving. There are tons of close balls and calls during a match. Illinois didn’t lose because of this one call. This is getting blown way out of proportion because of some kid that graduated years ago and put it up on social media. It was not a huge deal at the match. The umpire saw it as out.
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The video is deceiving? Right.
 
N

NoChance

Rookie
That would have likely meant that Hiltzik had already gotten two overrules, and had been assessed a code violation earlier. So, the third overrule would have meant another code violation. Having already received a code violation, point penalty, he would have received a code violation, game penalty. In a third-set tiebreaker, that would have meant default. That happened to me (in the chair), years ago, against an ACC player. I gotta admit, he got awfully honest (even generous) about his calls after the second overrrule, which occurred at the beginning of the tiebreaker. To do otherwise would have been incredibly stupid, or chronically dishonest. Yet, he ended up winning the breaker. Go figure.
 
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optimaltennis

Rookie
The way I've looked at this incident is not any different than the Rams getting away with that pass interference against the Saints this past year in the NFC championship game. Outrage shouldn't be directed at the player, but rather, at the officials (or umpire in this case).

Clemson_tennis said:
Someone in the replies reminded Hiltzik of the time when he was defaulted against Bushamuka of Kentucky in a 3rd set tiebreaker for a 4th overrule.
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Yes, I remember that incident and afterwards, Hiltzik wrote a long message on his phone, posted it on Twitter, before deleting it. I don't have it saved, but remember Hiltzik saying he has never purposely made a bad call in his life as well as defending a teammate who also got coded for poor line calls.
 
CHtennis

CHtennis

Rookie
I agree that it is not a good look for Mcnally but the referee needs to overrule that. That is why they are there. For the players they sometimes want the ball to be out so bad, they really think it is out. I agree with @optimaltennis that this should be looked at as an officiating mistake, and that happens, but it is unfortunate.
 
Nacho

Nacho

Hall of Fame
A lot of players test the ref's eye judgement by doing this on close calls, tons of examples of it. I don't love it, but sadly it has become part of the college game and at a cost. And it goes to show that adding a bunch of ref's as was mandated in the late 90's, as well as the budgetary costs of having them, does nothing to improve the game. Rather, it just allows the players to do this sort of stuff. Some good ref's out there, but many treat this as a retirement job and lack the skills to do it right. And these sort of quick solutions of adding refs aren't always the answer.

Would stop if coaches intervened, reversed bad calls (Which I have only heard of happening once), set standards for their players behavior etc...Thats old fashioned for many people, but should be whats taught. Unfortunately many coaches encourage the opposite
 
C

CincyIllinifan

Rookie
CHtennis said:
I agree that it is not a good look for Mcnally but the referee needs to overrule that. That is why they are there. For the players they sometimes want the ball to be out so bad, they really think it is out. I agree with @optimaltennis that this should be looked at as an officiating mistake, and that happens, but it is unfortunate.
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I don’t quite understand this. The ball wasn’t close to being out, yet McNally called it out. You’re blaming the official because he didn’t overrule a terrible call by a player? I don’t care how badly a player wants the ball to be out - that ball didn’t even hit the line.
 
W

W4TA

New User
Sad and ugly to see people rationalizing this bad call. It was a slow moving near-lob... it was not on the line (there was paint on both sides of the ball), and the player was standing inches away. Bad enough the player made this call... worse that someone sitting at a keyboard (with time to reflect) condones it.
 
J

jmnk

Hall of Fame
CHtennis said:
I agree that it is not a good look for Mcnally but the referee needs to overrule that. That is why they are there. For the players they sometimes want the ball to be out so bad, they really think it is out. I agree with @optimaltennis that this should be looked at as an officiating mistake, and that happens, but it is unfortunate.
Click to expand...
optimaltennis said:
The way I've looked at this incident is not any different than the Rams getting away with that pass interference against the Saints this past year in the NFC championship game. Outrage shouldn't be directed at the player, but rather, at the officials (or umpire in this case).
Click to expand...
no, it is not even close to an official missing a call at a football game. college tennis is still self-officiated affair, you are a player and an umpire on your side. He did not 'miss' a call. He purposely made a wrong one in his favor.
The fact that official should have overruled it is an entirely different topic.
 
Rattler

Rattler

Hall of Fame
Nacho said:
A lot of players test the ref's eye judgement by doing this on close calls, tons of examples of it. I don't love it, but sadly it has become part of the college game and at a cost. And it goes to show that adding a bunch of ref's as was mandated in the late 90's, as well as the budgetary costs of having them, does nothing to improve the game. Rather, it just allows the players to do this sort of stuff. Some good ref's out there, but many treat this as a retirement job and lack the skills to do it right. And these sort of quick solutions of adding refs aren't always the answer.

Would stop if coaches intervened, reversed bad calls (Which I have only heard of happening once), set standards for their players behavior etc...Thats old fashioned for many people, but should be whats taught. Unfortunately many coaches encourage the opposite
Click to expand...

Never chaired an ITA match that nobody hooked...usually done on serve (to see how well the ump can see). Rarely is it questioned, but I’d let the receiver know that ball was good....just a look at them and a quick look at where the ball hit.

This hook from McNally was pretty bad...should’ve been overruled.
 
N

NoChance

Rookie
I get it that there is less of a tendency to overrule in a tiebreaker, but I agree with Rattler on this one. It wasn't a screamer, but a lob that slowly settled to the court. Not hard to see.
 
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