Big 3 Against Next Gen [Top 100]

Yugram

Hall of Fame
Great job. But I think we shouldn’t forget that if we shorten the list to just top-level youngsters, suddenly Nadal’s % is decisively better than for the other 2. Like I don’t think Pouille or Edmund belong in this conversation cause we know they aren’t the next big things.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I'm not sure the point of this. You're putting players in their prime (not peak) up against players for the most part not in their prime yet.

Thiem and Kyrgios are in their prime and have a fine record. Mad Lad just entered his prime and the wins are starting to mount.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Great job. But I think we shouldn’t forget that if we shorten the list to just top-level youngsters, suddenly Nadal’s % is decisively better than for the other 2. Like I don’t think Pouille or Edmund belong in this conversation cause we know they aren’t the next big things.
True but I do think they both fall into next gen. Personally, if we are being picky only Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Thiem and Zverev have shown the goods so far from this entire group. I would add Chung but his AO run looks to be a one-off and he is seemingly going to be a one hit wonder unless he can become healthy and play a top level again.

Against those four players it's 10-11 for Federer, 22-6 for Nadal and 14-10 for Djokovic. Nadal clearly better than the other two. On the flip side, he has been worse against players outside of those 4 than Federer and Djokovic have.
 
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NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure the point of this. You're putting players in their prime (not peak) up against players for the most part not in their prime yet.

Thiem and Kyrgios are in their prime and have a fine record. Mad Lad just entered his prime and the wins are starting to mount.
The point is I made a list for Yugram since we were talking about this in another thread and wanted a full updated list.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
I wouldn't have included Kyrgios because he is now a journeyman, but I would have been accused of being selective. Even Edmund is verging onto journeyman status.
 
No they aren't. Even Hurkacz has shown more promise this year than they have beating Tistisipas, Thiem and Nishikori twice, all top 10 at the time, and you left him completely off the list.
Let's bump this a year from now. This will be interesting to look at by then. It will give us an idea on if these guys are improving or not.

If these trends continue, not a good look for these guys. But it could also flip quickly if there is a decline in Djoker and Rafa's level.

@Meles has a point here. While it is cool to look at, these players are clearly making headway in these matchup now.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Let's bump this a year from now. This will be interesting to look at by then. It will give us an idea on if these guys are improving or not.

If these trends continue, not a good look for these guys. But it could also flip quickly if there is a decline in Djoker and Rafa's level.

@Meles has a point here. While it is cool to look at, these players are clearly making headway in these matchup now.
The tide is already turning honestly at least for Djokovic and Federer. Nadal maintains his firewall although he should have lost to Medvedev at the WTF. That was just a massive choke from Med. Djokovic struggled against both Thiem and Medvedev this year. All the Thiem matches were really close and could have went either way but were losses nonetheless.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
No they aren't. Even Hurkacz has shown more promise this year than they have beating Tistisipas, Thiem and Nishikori twice, all top 10 at the time, and you left him completely off the list.
Tiafoe and De Minaur qualified for the NextGen WTF.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Of course I know it's not over until the last ball is struck but no top 5 player should lose a match from 5-1 match point up.
Rafa wasn't match fit at the O2. It was touch and go whether he played at all and he was unable to train and practice for it so he did the best he could.
 
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NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Rafa was match fit at the O2. It was touch and go whether he played at all and he was unable to train and practice for it so he did the best he could.
That's a lot more than about Nadal and you know this, although he did fight hard.
 
When? In a Slam or WTF?
In Hamburg 2008 final he lost the first set from 5-1 and setpoint on serve. Almost lost the second set from 5-2 up as well.
An even more surprising example was in Montreal 2009 when he lost the decider from 5-1 up against Tsonga. And Federer was in great form back then. (Madrid, RG and Wimbledon titles, right after the loss also Cincinnati title and USO final)
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
In Hamburg 2008 final he lost the first set from 5-1 and setpoint on serve. Almost lost the second set from 5-2 up as well.
An even more surprising example was in Montreal 2009 when he lost the decider from 5-1 up against Tsonga. And Federer was in great form back then.
He may have done it against Nadal at RG too, maybe 2011 or 2007 in the first set? Nadal on clay is one thing but against Tsonga? One would say that's a choke.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Of course I know it's not over until the last ball is struck but no top 5 player should lose a match from 5-1 match point up.
Every point in tennis counts that's what makes it so watchable. Rafa could have won the USO Final in 3 sets but he made one error on break point and the match turned taking it to 5 sets. Similarly, Med had all but won the match and Rafa hit that volley that ended under Med's legs when he was serving for the match and he lost his serve after which Rafa got his mojo back.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Every point in tennis counts that's what makes it so watchable. Rafa could have won the USO Final in 3 sets but he made one error on break point and the match turned taking it to 5 sets. Similarly, Med had all but won the match and Rafa hit that volley that ended under Med's legs when he was serving for the match and he lost his serve after which Rafa got his mojo back.
Med lost to Nadal from 5-1 up. Nadal was never in danger of losing to him at the USO. He would have choked it away. Lol
 
Med lost to Nadal from 5-1 up. Nadal was never in danger of losing to him at the USO. He would have choked it away. Lol
Are you really comparing Medvedev in USO with Medvedev in WTF? Med actually showed mental strength during the year, especially in USO. In WTF he was terrible though.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Are you really comparing Medvedev in USO with Medvedev in WTF? Med actually showed mental strength during the year, especially in USO. In WTF he was terrible though.
Yes he did but he lost the one match where he had the most commanding lead. At least in the other two losses he was just outplayed in straight sets.
 
Yes he did but he lost the one match where he had the most commanding lead. At least in the other two losses he was just outplayed in straight sets.
In USO he was very clutch though. Even in the fifth set he kept coming back all the time. Nadal was the one who couldn't finish him.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
That's a lot more than about Nadal and you know this, although he did fight hard.
Q. Can I just ask you about the other possible scenario, if it’s now out of your hands and you are to go out tonight, would winning this trophy be some sort of consolation for this week? Can you sum up your year from where you were back in the springtime?
RAFAEL NADAL: Honestly, if I am not in that semifinals, is not like when you lose the tournament, a normal tournament, because at some point is a different feeling, you know. I know how I arrived here. I know the preparation was very short for me and not the ideal one after the injury in Bercy.

So for me was important to give me a chance to compete better than I did the first day. The first day was a tough. I think in general terms I was ready to play a little bit better indoors, and it’s true that I only played one normal set before the tournament start, the day before, no?

So preparation was very short, and it's the worst tournament possible to arrive without the best preparation possible, because in other tournaments sometimes you can be a little bit more lucky with the draw. You can win two matches, and then you have a tough one but you will be more ready, more prepared for it, no?

But here, the first day you play one of the best players of the world on a tough surface, so if you don’t arrive with plenty of confidence in your body and your movements and everything, things become much more difficult, no? And I think that’s what happened. Then I think I have been improving my tennis every day.

Look, if I’m not in that semifinals, I go to Madrid with positive confidence that I am playing better and better. For me it was important, more than being in that semifinals or not, of course I would love to be, it's to go from here with the feeling that I did all the things possible to be there and to finalize the ATP year with a positive feeling, no? And that’s what I did, because I think I played a good match today.
 

ibbi

Hall of Fame
Hmm, I have one of these too... :unsure:

Players in the top 100 (plus Chung and The Kokk) born 1996 onwards against the big 3

vs. Fed, vs. Nad, vs. Djo (overall)

Majchrzak
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Medvedev
0-3, 0-3, 2-3 (2-9)

Kokkinakis
1-0, 0-1, 0-1 (1-2)

Berrettini
0-2, 0-1, 0-1 (0-4)

Chung
0-2, 0-3, 1-1 (1-6)

Khachanov
0-1, 0-6, 1-1 (1-8)

Garin
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Coric
2-4, 2-2, 0-3 (4-9)

Hurkacz
0-1, 0-0, 0-2 (0-3)

Zverev
4-3, 1-5, 2-3 (7-11)

Munar
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Paul
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Bublik
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Opelka
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Rublev
1-0, 0-1, 0-0 (1-1)

Fritz
0-2, 0-0, 0-2 (0-4)

Kwon
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Tiafoe
0-3, 0-2, 0-0 (0-5)

Humbert
0-0, 0-0, 0-1 (0-1)

Tsitsipas
2-2, 1-5, 2-2 (5-9)

Ymer
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Ruud
0-1, 0-0, 0-0 (0-1)

de Minaur
0-1, 0-2, 0-0 (0-3)

Shapovalov
0-1, 1-1, 0-4 (1-6)

Moutet
0-0, 0-0, 0-1 (0-1)

Fokina
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Popyrin
0-0, 0-0, 0-1 (0-1)

Kecmanovic
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Auger-Aliassime
0-0, 0-1, 0-0 (0-1)

Sinner
0-0, 0-0, 0-0 (0-0)

Federer 26-10
Nadal 33-5
Djokovic 24-8
 
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ebar86

New User
saw lot of people undermined medvedev after his loss to nadal and his showings at wtf in general.dude is most consistent in 2nd half of the season; 6 finals, won 3 of them.it is not easy to close the deal, it happened sometimes.even to those 3 beasts.
 
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