Big 3 Eras: Rafa had it the hardest, Fed & Djoker had separate eras, Rafa shared those eras

[mike danny]

Even with him being sandwiched between Fed and Djoko, he's still managed a whooping 11 slams in the CIE and 2010. So it wasn't too bad for him.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

It’s an insult because it’s an insult, lol. There’s no other way where it can be interpreted as anything else in this setting. Call me naive all you want. I think spending 4 years in an elite tennis academy with a former top 10 player and GS finalist training you is going to have a bigger impact on one’s tennis career.

It’s a pretty safe and educated estimation that he wouldn’t have become world #1 2 years earlier based on how his 09-10 seasons went. In 07 he finished #3 and in 08 he finished #3 again but was only 10 points shy of finishing #2. But then he started experimenting with his game and took steps backwards. The racquet change and the tinkering with his service motion set him back. That and 2 other ATGs who would become GOAT candidates were simply better players at the time. If anything, his coach was just using that experience as a child to cope and or make excuses for his decisions back firing on him in 09-10. There’s far more convincing evidence that he wouldn’t have become #1 regardless of that traumatic event than there’s evidence that he would have without it.

There are a lot of assumptions going on in your comments, but I have already agreed that maybe he wouldn't have been No. 1 earlier; I was just quoting what his coach said.

You can take what I said as an insult, but when you suggest that what Djokovic went through as a child was trivial, it just is a silly comment. To make an admittedly more extreme analogy, if you said the sky is green, and I said that was silly, and you said it was an insult, that would be a stretch. It was the comment that set you up for someone calling you out.

I was never in the military for health reasons, but I have been 20 miles from a battle zone where I could feel the bombs when they exploded and it was chilling. And I was an adult and there was no chance that any of those bombs would fall on me. If I were 10 years old and the bombs could fall on me, that would scar me and anyone else for life. Suggesting anything else is inconsistent with what we know about child psychology.

 

[vokazu]

No Halle or Queens.

Lol they are not Masters tournaments.

 

[The Blond Blur]

There are a lot of assumptions going on in your comments, but I have already agreed that maybe he wouldn't have been No. 1 earlier; I was just quoting what his coach said.

You can take what I said as an insult, but when you suggest that what Djokovic went through as a child was trivial, it just is a silly comment. To make an admittedly more extreme analogy, if you said the sky is green, and I said that was silly, and you said it was an insult, that would be a stretch. It was the comment that set you up for someone calling you out.

I was never in the military for health reasons, but I have been 20 miles from a battle zone where I could feel the bombs when they exploded and it was chilling. And I was an adult and there was no chance that any of those bombs would fall on me. If I were 10 years old and the bombs could fall on me, that would scar me and anyone else for life. Suggesting anything else is inconsistent with what we know about child psychology.

That analogy doesn’t work in the slightest lol. I never denied that Joker had to live through those bombing raids. All I did was correctly point out that people were ignoring all the very fortuitous things that Joker did get to go through. Such as training in elite tennis academies in Germany, Italy, and the US. One of which he received personal training from a former top 10 player and GS finalist. That’s far more significant imo.

Show me where I said it was trivial? Here’s what I actually said on matter:

Obviously that was a scary and life threatening event.

If anything, you’re the one who’s been assuming things about me.

 

[Mustard]

Obvious sarcasm is obvious.

The bombings lasted from March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999. So basically 2 and a half months. Obviously that was a scary and life threatening event. But let’s not act like that was anywhere close to being the vast majority of his childhood, and had this negative impact that would keep him from becoming world #1 sooner.

Yes, the other Yugoslav wars of the time, like the Croatian War of Independence from March 1991 to November 1995, which Goran Ivanisevic had some active involvement in around 1993; and the Bosnian War from April 1992 to December 1995, involved Serbian troops obviously, but didn't take place on Serbian soil.

A terrible time for them. I think the breakup of Yugoslavia was criminal in the extreme, and the racists/xenophobes on all sides were terrible. What was once 1 country (a unified strong socialist country that balanced between the Stalinist East and the Capitalist West in the Cold War) is now something like 7 countries (i.e. small and "balkanized"). The Ukraine War today isn't much different. Russians and Ukrainians used to live in peace in the Soviet Union, yet now have this ugly WW1 style war with terrible xenophobia.

 

[Aabye5]

It thrashes Fed and Novak but certainly not Nadal. If anything it's a Nadal fan propaganda dream thread.

Literally 100% of the TTW Nadal fanbase agree/would ecstatically agree with the thread's premise. They're basically a hivemind.

Why is it hivemind?

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Yes, he was sandwiched between Fedovic but OTOH his best surface was clay which was the worst for Fedovic.

 

[SonnyT]

Talking about Big 3! I'll pick the best slam match for each match-up, for each surface!

HC - Federer over Nadal '17 AO F; Djokovic over Federer '11 US SF; Djokovic over Nadal '12 AO F
grass at WB - Nadal over Federer '08 F; Djokovic over Federer '14 F; Djokovic over Nadal '18 SF
clay at RG - Nadal over Federer '07 F; Federer over Djokovic '11 SF; Nadal over Djokovic '13 SF

Federer 2 wins, 4 losses; Nadal 3 wins, 3 losses; Djokovic 4 wins, 2 losses
duration: 7 five-set matches; 2 four-set matches
Federer 0-2 on grass; Nadal 2-0 on clay; Djokovic 2-0 on HC

 

[Jonas78]

Even with him being sandwiched between Fed and Djoko, he's still managed a whooping 11 slams in the CIE and 2010. So it wasn't too bad for him.

No i just dont see it. Nadal won his first slam in 2005 and prevented Federer slams in 2006. Federer peaked in 2004. If its a sandwich its a very small one.

and post 2016 there has been multiple slams where 1-2 of Big3 havent been firing on all cylinders. The two youngest of the Big3 of course profited more on the post 2016 era than the oldest.

 

[MichaelNadal]

No i just dont see it. Nadal won his first slam in 2005 and prevented Federer slams in 2006. Federer peaked in 2004. If its a sandwich its a very short one.

and post 2016 there has been multiple slams where 1-2 of Big3 havent been firing on all cylinders. The two youngest of the Big3 of course profited more on the post 2016 era than the oldest.

He was sandwiched between the 2 most consistent guys ever. Without the grass GOAT he would have won 3 straight Wimbledon's and been YE#1 in 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, and 2010 without interruption. He was definitely hurt by having to play the best version of the Grass GOAT in his peak at the beginning of his career, finally overthrowing him and becoming a threat on all surfaces himself, and then the best HC player ever started peaking at the VERY next slam. That's one hell of a sandwich.

 

[Jonas78]

Delete

 

[Jonas78]

He was sandwiched between the 2 most consistent guys ever. Without the grass GOAT he would have won 3 straight Wimbledon's and been YE#1 in 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, and 2010 without interruption. He was definitely hurt by having to play the best version of the Grass GOAT in his peak at the beginning of his career, finally overthrowing him and becoming a threat on all surfaces himself, and then the best HC player ever started peaking at the VERY next slam. That's one hell of a sandwich.

...and if not for Rafa, Federer would probably have at least 2 CYGS .

And although he is 5 years younger, Rafa prevented Federer slams before Federer prevented him slams, so I just dont see the extreme sandwich effect.

2 slams from 2005-2017 isnt any more than Stan or Murray prevented Rafa from. Nadal hurt the Maestronians a lot more than the other way around

 

[MichaelNadal]

...and if not for Rafa, Federer would probably have at least 2 CYGS .

And although he is 5 years younger, Rafa prevented Federer slams before Federer prevented him slams, so I just dont see the extreme sandwich effect.

2 slams from 2005-2017 isnt any more than Stan or Murray prevented Rafa from. Nadal hurt the Maestronians a lot more than the other way around

Nadal definitely slayed (regardless of the sandwich) but it hurt him the most. He never got that free period of years to eat slams up the other two got by being first and being last, despite that his career is ombelieveable no?

 

[Jonas78]

Nadal definitely slayed (regardless of the sandwich) but it hurt him the most. He never got that free period of years to eat slams up the other two got by being first and being last, despite that his career is ombelieveable no?

Yeah lets agree to disagree on that one.

Rafa definetly slayed, and despite all the slams Rafa/Nole "took" from Federer, it would be boring without the other two around. It has been one helluva ride!

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

That analogy doesn’t work in the slightest lol. I never denied that Joker had to live through those bombing raids. All I did was correctly point out that people were ignoring all the very fortuitous things that Joker did get to go through. Such as training in elite tennis academies in Germany, Italy, and the US. One of which he received personal training from a former top 10 player and GS finalist. That’s far more significant imo.

Show me where I said it was trivial? Here’s what I actually said on matter:

If anything, you’re the one who’s been assuming things about me.

As if Nadal and Federer did not have world class instruction early on.

You trivialized the bombing by suggesting it was only a couple of months. But as Faulkner said, "The past is not dead; it is not even past."

Do you not think that Djokovic had a harder road to the top than Federer o Nadal?

 

[The Blond Blur]

As if Nadal and Federer did not have world class instruction early on.

You trivialized the bombing by suggesting it was only a couple of months. But as Faulkner said, "The past is not dead; it is not even past."

Do you not think that Djokovic had a harder road to the top than Federer o Nadal?

I never said they didn’t Now I do know that RAFA was trained mostly by Toni who had zero background in tennis. And he would at times intentionally make him play with bad equipment to teach him that if he wanted to win then the outcome is based on him, not on his equipment or facilities. The Nadal’s also turned down the opportunity to train in Barcelona after he earned a scholarship from Spain’s tennis federation.

See, that’s your interpretation of things. Saying that the bombings only lasted a couple of months isn’t trivializing it. It’s called being truthful and accurate when recalling the events. If Joker had to stop training for several months or longer then there’s an argument to be made that it delayed his rise to the top, but that’s not what happened. He didn’t have to discontinue his training at any point.

I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think he had a harder road to the top. There’s simply no evidence that the bombings delayed his rise to #1 by 2 full years. But there is evidence to the contrary. He had a pretty meteoric rise in 07-08. He finished world #3 in back to back seasons and was only 10 points shy of finishing #2 in 08…Then he made changes to his game in 09 that backfired on him. He changed his racquet which I don’t care who you are, there’s always going to be an adjustment period. He also became more of a grinder in 09-10 when he was more aggressive in 07-08. And probably most importantly, he changed his service motion which led to a more inconsistent and weaker serve. The argument would have to be he was having an incredibly fast rise to the top in 07-08, but then randomly remembered is childhood trauma out of nowhere in 09-10 which negatively affected him. Sorry, that just makes zero sense to me. It’s also pretty disrespectful to essentially say Fedal played no part in keeping him #3 for so long. They were simply better tennis players than he was at the time.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Why is it hivemind?

That’s just his salty response to all Nadal fans. The guy holds a grudge against all of them sense he thinks Fed wasn’t given enough credit for his 2017 wins against RAFA.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

I never said they didn’t Now I do know that RAFA was trained mostly by Toni who had zero background in tennis. And he would at times intentionally make him play with bad equipment to teach him that if he wanted to win then the outcome is based on him, not on his equipment or facilities. The Nadal’s also turned down the opportunity to train in Barcelona after he earned a scholarship from Spain’s tennis federation.

See, that’s your interpretation of things. Saying that the bombings only lasted a couple of months isn’t trivializing it. It’s called being truthful and accurate when recalling the events. If Joker had to stop training for several months or longer then there’s an argument to be made that it delayed his rise to the top, but that’s not what happened. He didn’t have to discontinue his training at any point.

I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think he had a harder road to the top. There’s simply no evidence that the bombings delayed his rise to #1 by 2 full years. But there is evidence to the contrary. He had a pretty meteoric rise in 07-08. He finished world #3 in back to back seasons and was only 10 points shy of finishing #2 in 08…Then he made changes to his game in 09 that backfired on him. He changed his racquet which I don’t care who you are, there’s always going to be an adjustment period. He also became more of a grinder in 09-10 when he was more aggressive in 07-08. And probably most importantly, he changed his service motion which led to a more inconsistent and weaker serve. The argument would have to be he was having an incredibly fast rise to the top in 07-08, but then randomly remembered is childhood trauma out of nowhere in 09-10 which negatively affected him. Sorry, that just makes zero sense to me. It’s also pretty disrespectful to essentially say Fedal played no part in keeping him #3 for so long. They were simply better tennis players than he was at the time.

Again, I just quoted a coach who suggested that he might have been No. 1 two years earlier if he had had an easier rise to the top. I admitted that it may not have happened as she suggested.

Again, suggesting the bombing was just 21/2 months without taking into account what happened before and after in the countries involved and in a little boy of 10's psychology is naive. I know you work as a physical therapist of some sort. I wonder how often you see children.

If we were to take a poll as to whose life had a harder background that might have interfered with him gaining the top, even most Fedal fans I believe would agree that Djokovic had it harder. I am so sure of that, that I will not waste people's time by posting such a poll. But if you think I am wrong, you can post such a poll.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Again, I just quoted a coach who suggested that he might have been No. 1 two years earlier if he had had an easier rise to the top. I admitted that it may not have happened as she suggested.

Again, suggesting the bombing was just 21/2 months without taking into account what happened before and after in the countries involved and in a little boy of 10's psychology is naive. I know you work as a physical therapist of some sort. I wonder how often you see children.

If we were to take a poll as to whose life had a harder background that might have interfered with him gaining the top, even most Fedal fans I believe would agree that Djokovic had it harder. I am so sure of that, that I will not waste people's time by posting such a poll. But if you think I am wrong, you can post such a poll.

And again, I disagree with said coach. There’s simply no concrete evidence to back up that claim. But there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Gotcha, so it’s ok to call someone naive and it not be an insult, but it’s not ok to accurately recall the duration of an event. I even called it life threatening, but yeah I’m trivializing it Simply disagreeing that there’s a correlation between the bombings of 99 to Joker taking steps backwards in his career in 09-10 isn’t trivializing anything. As of July I exclusively with kids (I primarily worked with them before then) and in a lot of ways act as a guidance counselor for them. All I’m saying is that it simply makes no sense for bombings that happened in 99 to suddenly stall Joker’s career in 09-10 after he was rapidly rising in 07-08. But it makes perfect sense for the changes he made to his game in that timeframe to have had negative consequences on his career. Not all changes are good changes.

That’s not even what the thread is about, it’s about who faced the toughest competition. And in my eyes, the OP’s, and many other people in the thread RAFA had it the toughest. His prime simply overlapped the most with the other Big 3’s primes. It just makes logical sense. He bloomed earlier so he faced better versions of Fed (specifically at Wimby) and he’s less a than a year older than Joker so his prime overlapped with much of his.