Big 3 FREQUENTLY go off the court these days whenever in trouble.

Krish872007

G.O.A.T.
It's not just the Big 3 - have seen many, many people do it over the years
Kei Nishikori another prime example of this back in the day - took a 20+ minute break in Rio 2016.
It's more about who gets called out for it vs. who doesn't
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
I'm so used to it these days that i don't get as bothered about it as i should. We tend to notice it more with Nadal/Djokovic style players because of the implications of them losing a slam match in truth, there are many other players that do it too. I personally don't think you should be allowed to leave the court unless you straight up call a MTO or bathroom break and your opponent is FULLY aware of why you are leaving the court. Also if it's a bathroom break, you should be escorted and under no circumstances be allowed to see your team or trainer during it.

I'm pretty sure what i stated IS the rule for the most part tho so there is technically nothing wrong with leaving the court if you just claim it's a bathroom break, even if it's just to regroup. It's legal gamesmanship sadly.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
How about Raonic, who consistently leaves court to change his entire outfit in humid conditions? It’s outrageous they allow this.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
I’m sorry but it is the umpires responsibility to regulate this. If like today the umpire allows Nadal to take two toilet breaks and never warn or penalize him for exceeding the serve time, that would be on the umpire. It makes it even more disappointing that this umpire has done exactly the same in every Nadal match.
 

tonylg

Legend
I’m sorry but it is the umpires responsibility to regulate this. If like today the umpire allows Nadal to take two toilet breaks and never warn or penalize him for exceeding the serve time, that would be on the umpire. It makes it even more disappointing that this umpire has done exactly the same in every Nadal match.
Damien Dumusois should never get another Nadal match and probably never another big match again. He is disgraceful.

A mate sent a message to tell me that Tsitsipas had won the 4th set and brought the match level. I instantly replied asking how long Nadal would leave the court for. Turned on the tv and sure enough, Nadal was nowhere to be seen the Tsitsipas was jogging on the spot and trying to maintain focus.

I don't know how long he was off court in total and don't mind players taking a toilet break when a match goes over 3 or 4 hours, but even then more than 5 minutes should be an instant default. No correspondence entered into. I timed over 5 minutes from when I turned on the tv, which was after I was told Tsisipas won the 4th.

Once he decided to return to court, I put the watch on Nadal because the shot clock was not visable (who requested that?). Despite Dumusois waiting up to almost 10 seconds for the pretend applause to die down before calling the score (WTF), Nadal took more than 25 seconds on 13 occasions in his first 5 service games, over 30 seconds 4 times.

I doubt he was given any warnings in the previous 4 sets, but Dumusois just completely ignored the time wasting in the 5th, making a complete mockery the fact there is a rule to prevent this form of time wasting and gamesmanship. Why is it so hard for some umpires to just do their job?
 

yokied

Hall of Fame
Damien Dumusois should never get another Nadal match and probably never another big match again. He is disgraceful.

A mate sent a message to tell me that Tsitsipas had won the 4th set and brought the match level. I instantly replied asking how long Nadal would leave the court for. Turned on the tv and sure enough, Nadal was nowhere to be seen the Tsitsipas was jogging on the spot and trying to maintain focus.

I don't know how long he was off court in total and don't mind players taking a toilet break when a match goes over 3 or 4 hours, but even then more than 5 minutes should be an instant default. No correspondence entered into. I timed over 5 minutes from when I turned on the tv, which was after I was told Tsisipas won the 4th.

Once he decided to return to court, I put the watch on Nadal because the shot clock was not visable (who requested that?). Despite Dumusois waiting up to almost 10 seconds for the pretend applause to die down before calling the score (WTF), Nadal took more than 25 seconds on 13 occasions in his first 5 service games, over 30 seconds 4 times.

I doubt he was given any warnings in the previous 4 sets, but Dumusois just completely ignored the time wasting in the 5th, making a complete mockery the fact there is a rule to prevent this form of time wasting and gamesmanship. Why is it so hard for some umpires to just do their job?
I think it’s fair to say Dumu is VB. It’s now on the level of collusion.
 

tonylg

Legend
I think it’s fair to say Dumu is VB. It’s now on the level of collusion.
If he's appointed to another match, he should probably just umpire it from the Nadal player's box. No point being in the chair if you're just going to ignore everything in front of you.
 

jdx2112

Semi-Pro
Damien Dumusois should never get another Nadal match and probably never another big match again. He is disgraceful.

A mate sent a message to tell me that Tsitsipas had won the 4th set and brought the match level. I instantly replied asking how long Nadal would leave the court for. Turned on the tv and sure enough, Nadal was nowhere to be seen the Tsitsipas was jogging on the spot and trying to maintain focus.

I don't know how long he was off court in total and don't mind players taking a toilet break when a match goes over 3 or 4 hours, but even then more than 5 minutes should be an instant default. No correspondence entered into. I timed over 5 minutes from when I turned on the tv, which was after I was told Tsisipas won the 4th.

Once he decided to return to court, I put the watch on Nadal because the shot clock was not visable (who requested that?). Despite Dumusois waiting up to almost 10 seconds for the pretend applause to die down before calling the score (WTF), Nadal took more than 25 seconds on 13 occasions in his first 5 service games, over 30 seconds 4 times.

I doubt he was given any warnings in the previous 4 sets, but Dumusois just completely ignored the time wasting in the 5th, making a complete mockery the fact there is a rule to prevent this form of time wasting and gamesmanship. Why is it so hard for some umpires to just do their job?
They key to solving this is to remove some level of discretion from the umpire. By making the bathroom timeouts fixed with a countdown clock that begins the second the set is over it's no longer on the umpire to enforce but on the players to comply.
 

tonylg

Legend
They key to solving this is to remove some level of discretion from the umpire. By making the bathroom timeouts fixed with a countdown clock that begins the second the set is over it's no longer on the umpire to enforce but on the players to comply.
Yes, that's a very sensible approach. Hawkeye knows when the ball goes dead, so could be use for that and the shot clock. I'd love to see all this left with umpires, but sadly most are intimidated by or simply favour the top players.
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
nadal also told this ump he was starting the clock too soon early in the match
why have an umpire and rules at all?
 

tonylg

Legend
nadal also told this ump he was starting the clock too soon early in the match
why have an umpire and rules at all?
That explains the ridiculous delays in calling the score during the fifth set.

I noted Tsitsipas received a warning for coaching. Should he just have instructed the umpire to ignore that rule? Seems that's a legit approach (for some).
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
That explains the ridiculous delays in calling the score during the fifth set.

I noted Tsitsipas received a warning for coaching. Should he just have instructed the umpire to ignore that rule? Seems that's a legit approach (for some).
The funny part is that when Tsitsipas received the warning, Nadal was taking forever to serve, certainly over 25s.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Damien Dumusois should never get another Nadal match and probably never another big match again. He is disgraceful.

A mate sent a message to tell me that Tsitsipas had won the 4th set and brought the match level. I instantly replied asking how long Nadal would leave the court for. Turned on the tv and sure enough, Nadal was nowhere to be seen the Tsitsipas was jogging on the spot and trying to maintain focus.

I don't know how long he was off court in total and don't mind players taking a toilet break when a match goes over 3 or 4 hours, but even then more than 5 minutes should be an instant default. No correspondence entered into. I timed over 5 minutes from when I turned on the tv, which was after I was told Tsisipas won the 4th.

Once he decided to return to court, I put the watch on Nadal because the shot clock was not visable (who requested that?). Despite Dumusois waiting up to almost 10 seconds for the pretend applause to die down before calling the score (WTF), Nadal took more than 25 seconds on 13 occasions in his first 5 service games, over 30 seconds 4 times.

I doubt he was given any warnings in the previous 4 sets, but Dumusois just completely ignored the time wasting in the 5th, making a complete mockery the fact there is a rule to prevent this form of time wasting and gamesmanship. Why is it so hard for some umpires to just do their job?
He’s the same umpire who made Kyrgios furious when he continuously allowed Nadal to exceed the allowed time on serve without any warning, but immediately gave a warning to Kyrgios for exceeding time at the first infringement. I believe that was at RG.
 

tonylg

Legend
Not really. Playing in wet shirts can be a pain in the ass, especially when serving if it restricts shoulder rotation.
We are talking about tennis, not chess. It's a physical sport and sweating is part of that.

Anything that can't be achieved in the 90 second change over should only be allowed after 3 or 4 hours of play and if you can't do it in under 5 minutes, you should just default or at least be penalised a game(s).
 

Robert F

Professional
They key to solving this is to remove some level of discretion from the umpire. By making the bathroom timeouts fixed with a countdown clock that begins the second the set is over it's no longer on the umpire to enforce but on the players to comply.
I think that just echoes the current problem. Sure make a rule you leave the court and the timer starts. But then some umpires start it once requested, others will wait until they can't see the player on court. And of course when they come back late, if just by 10seconds, will the umpire enforce it? My guess is yes and no.

I think we need a system that is dependent on your opponent.
Once an opponent steps in there spot on court, the other player has say 20-25 seconds to start play, otherwise loss of point. This can apply to change overs and in between points during games. Heck even after a set. Hence, if they play a long point and are both gassed, they can cat and mouse each other when to get ready. The fitter person will be hitting their mark and the other is at risk of losing a point. On really long points, both might take a little extra time.

Then on a set changeover, player who needs to change clothes/bathroom break might say to his opponent, "I'm going to change, you ok with that?" If it takes to long, player waiting can take his mark and player only has so much time.

Regardless, if someone takes an MTO, there should be a penalty and the other player gets to hit with a buddy or consult with his/her coach. Maybe the same with a bathroom break.

I might be OK with a free 5 minute break after 2 sets of play--bathroom break, showers, clothing change.
 

tonylg

Legend
...

Regardless, if someone takes an MTO, there should be a penalty and the other player gets to hit with a buddy or consult with his/her coach. Maybe the same with a bathroom break.

I might be OK with a free 5 minute break after 2 sets of play--bathroom break, showers, clothing change.
Agree on attaching a game cost for an MTO. You'd still take one rather than default, but the tactical MTOs would instantly disappear.

Also kind of agree that a break up to a hard limit of 5 minutes is okay after 3 or more hours, but 2 sets can be over in under an hour and they shouldn't be leaving the court after being there that long (unless they are willing to lose a game for it).
 
We are talking about tennis, not chess. It's a physical sport and sweating is part of that.

Anything that can't be achieved in the 90 second change over should only be allowed after 3 or 4 hours of play and if you can't do it in under 5 minutes, you should just default or at least be penalised a game(s).
Not sure what you mean with the first sentence. I think a pop up tent on court behind the players chairs would be a better idea (like with the NFL or NCAA). No walking to the bathroom which is what takes the most time.
 

tonylg

Legend
Not sure what you mean with the first sentence. I think a pop up tent on court behind the players chairs would be a better idea (like with the NFL or NCAA). No walking to the bathroom which is what takes the most time.
I'd totally agree with having a little privacy screen / tent. Swap shirts on every change over if you want, just don't take longer than 90 seconds.
 
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LETitBE

Hall of Fame
He’s the same umpire who made Kyrgios furious when he continuously allowed Nadal to exceed the allowed time on serve without any warning, but immediately gave a warning to Kyrgios for exceeding time at the first infringement. I believe that was at RG.
Wimbledon and yes this ump should be sacked
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
But there was no-one there :-D
television......they seem to give nadal all the help they can to get him to later stages
when nadal goes off court,what takes him so long to change his clothes?
does he have a shower?what takes the time? an icebath maybe?
 

tonylg

Legend
television......they seem to give nadal all the help they can to get him to later stages
when nadal goes off court,what takes him so long to change his clothes?
does he have a shower?what takes the time? an icebath maybe?
As I said earlier, I'm okay with a longer break after the forth set. But if you can't get back in less than 5 minutes, you should just be defaulted. In reality, an umpire who doesn't have the balls to enforce the serve clock and lets a player tell him to wait for the fake applause to be over before calling the score (and actually does it!) .. that kind of umpire is never going to default his master.
 

ArcspacE

Legend
Damien Dumusois should never get another Nadal match and probably never another big match again. He is disgraceful.

A mate sent a message to tell me that Tsitsipas had won the 4th set and brought the match level. I instantly replied asking how long Nadal would leave the court for. Turned on the tv and sure enough, Nadal was nowhere to be seen the Tsitsipas was jogging on the spot and trying to maintain focus.

I don't know how long he was off court in total and don't mind players taking a toilet break when a match goes over 3 or 4 hours, but even then more than 5 minutes should be an instant default. No correspondence entered into. I timed over 5 minutes from when I turned on the tv, which was after I was told Tsisipas won the 4th.

Once he decided to return to court, I put the watch on Nadal because the shot clock was not visable (who requested that?). Despite Dumusois waiting up to almost 10 seconds for the pretend applause to die down before calling the score (WTF), Nadal took more than 25 seconds on 13 occasions in his first 5 service games, over 30 seconds 4 times.

I doubt he was given any warnings in the previous 4 sets, but Dumusois just completely ignored the time wasting in the 5th, making a complete mockery the fact there is a rule to prevent this form of time wasting and gamesmanship. Why is it so hard for some umpires to just do their job?
He's an absolute joke - should never umpire top games
 
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