Big 3 - Lowest level in each major final

Third Serve said:
It was a fairly low-quality final but I don’t think it quite matches the 2016 one. The first-set choking was pretty bad (second set was more of Federer being clutch, though) but he wasn't leaking errors quite like in the 2016 final (differential of 10+ and the winners count was almost the exact same between both matches despite the differing quantity of sets). Stan wasn't doing much special in that match (he also had a very poor error count which hasn't happened in his other victories (and some losses) over Djokovic) and I think Fed brought in a significantly higher level even if he had to wait until midway through the match before waking up.
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Im saying 2016 USO was worse tham that RG and that Wimbly final
 
Yugram said:
Only AO statement is kind of trollish. I barely remember this match, but I remember that after great QF and decent SF performance, it was 2015 Nadal all over again. 2015 Berdych would probably bagel Nadal from 2017 AO final again.
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Nadal didn't play a great match by any means, but comparing that to 2014/2019 is ridiculous.
 
Yugram said:
What’s even the point of this thread if any deviation from lamestream is automatically trolling?
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Labeling those three AOs 1/10 (yes, all three; 2019 could go as low as 3/10 but none of the Big 3 have done anything as bad as 1/10 in a Slam final) certainly fits within that definition of trolling. That's not just a minor deviation from the mainstream (and besides, there's plenty of that in the thread, even in the OP), that's so, so far from what many might consider mainstream that one experiences a double-take reading those ratings.
 
mike danny said:
Nadal did play poorly relative to what he is capable of in those 2011 slam finals against Djokovic.

Peaking ATG is no excuse when Federer actually put up better fights against Nadal in the 2008 Wimb and 2009 AO finals. I actually do think those 2011 slam finals would be closer if 2008-2009 Nadal showed up.
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Dunno, Djokovic was obnoxiously unplayable in WB'11 and Nadal did well to keep first set close. I'd say he was better than 2006.

I actually watched that match live in 3d in a movie theater!
 
aldeayeah said:
Dunno, Djokovic was obnoxiously good in WB'11 and Nadal did well to keep first set close. I'd say he was better than 2006.
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Nadal played two of his best sets on grass in the 2006 final (second and third set) against a Federer better than Djokovic. The other two sets bring it down to about 2011 level, but I have it a bit higher.
 
Third Serve said:
Nadal played two of his best sets on grass in the 2006 final (second and third set) against a Federer better than Djokovic. The other two sets bring it down to about 2011 level, but I have it a bit higher.
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Fed may be better on grass, but he's also a better matchup so it kinda evens out. I generally rate 2011 Nadal pretty high (and Djokovic 2011 even higher, on par with the very best Fedal versions)
 
Third Serve said:
Labeling those three AOs 1/10 (yes, all three; 2019 could go as low as 3/10 but none of the Big 3 have done anything as bad as 1/10 in a Slam final) certainly fits within that definition of trolling. That's not just a minor deviation from the mainstream (and besides, there's plenty of that in the thread, even in the OP), that's so, so far from what many might consider mainstream that one experiences a double-take reading those ratings.
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Nadal's AO 2014 final is close to 0/10.
 
Third Serve said:
Before the injury, hardly so. And he won a set injured as well.
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Yes, before the injury. Don't try to convince me that Nadal who missed 3 second serve returns in a row in the biggest moment played well. That was horrible even by his return standards. I wouldn't call the first set 1/10, but not anything high. And the other sets bring it down to the bottom.
 
StrongRule said:
Yes, before the injury. Don't try to convince me that Nadal who missed 3 second serve returns in a row in the biggest moment played well. That was horrible even by his return standards. I wouldn't call the first set 1/10, but not anything high. And the other sets bring it down to the bottom.
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I don't think the third set was 1/10.
 
Third Serve said:
I don't think the third set was 1/10.
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He was basically standing and hitting hit and hope shots, and many of them were somehow getting in. Wawrinka was nervous, that also helped. Such luck couldn't last long as we have seen in the fourth set.

Nadal was playing bad during pretty much the whole tournament. Federer just made him look a bit better in the semifinal. That was misleading.
 
ADuck said:
They've been in the final at each major at least 5 times each.

Out of all their appearances, which final did they play at their lowest level and what would you rate it out of 10? Keep in mind, they may not necessarily have lost the match they produced their lowest level in...

I'll kick it off with my ratings:

Nadal:
AO: 14 (3.5/10)
RG: 20 (6.5/10)
WIM: 11 (6.5/10)
US: 11 (6/10)

Djokovic:
AO: 20 (6/10)
RG: 20 (3.5/10)
WIM: 13 (6.5/10)
US: ??

Federer:
AO: 18 (5/10)
RG: 08 (3/10)
WIM: 15 (7/10)
US: 15 (6.5/10)
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Federer :-

AO :- 2006
RG :- 2008
Wim :- 2015
UO :- 2015

The greatest warrior of tennis world, Nadal :-

AO :- 2019
RG :- 2020
Wim :- 2011
UO :- 2011

Djokovic :-

AO :- 2015
RG :- 2020
Wim :- 2019
UO :- 2013
 
ADuck said:
They've been in the final at each major at least 5 times each.

Out of all their appearances, which final did they play at their lowest level and what would you rate it out of 10? Keep in mind, they may not necessarily have lost the match they produced their lowest level in...

I'll kick it off with my ratings:

Nadal:
AO: 14 (3.5/10)
RG: 20 (6.5/10)
WIM: 11 (6.5/10)
US: 11 (6/10)

Djokovic:
AO: 20 (6/10)
RG: 20 (3.5/10)
WIM: 13 (6.5/10)
US: ??

Federer:
AO: 18 (5/10)
RG: 08 (3/10)
WIM: 15 (7/10)
US: 15 (6.5/10)
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Lol so Nadal can win RG without dropping a set and dominate a GOAT candidate and only be 33.5% of his level? Absurd.
 
This maybe?

Federer:
AO: 18 (6.5/10)
RG: 08 (3/10)
WIM: 15 (7/10)
US: 15 (7.5/10)

Nadal:
AO: 19 (3/10)
RG: 18 (8/10)
WIM: 11 (7.5/10)
US: 19 (7/10)

Djokovic:
AO: 20 (7.5/10)
RG: 20 (3/10)
WIM: 13 (5/10)
US: 16 (5/10)
 
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NatF said:
This maybe?

Federer:
AO: 18 (6.5/10)
RG: 08 (3/10)
WIM: 15 (7/10)
US: 15 (7.5/10)

Nadal:
AO: 19 (3/10)
RG: 18 (8/10)
WIM: 11 (7.5/10)
US: 11 (9/10)

Djokovic:
AO: 20 (7.5/10)
RG: 20 (3/10)
WIM: 13 (5/10)
US: 16 (5/10)
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95% sure you made a mistake on the bald.
 
aldeayeah said:
Dunno, Djokovic was obnoxiously unplayable in WB'11 and Nadal did well to keep first set close. I'd say he was better than 2006.

I actually watched that match live in 3d in a movie theater!
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Dunno, don't really see peak Fed having much issues with 2011 Nadal on grass.
 
Many are mentioning Roger's 2008 FO against Rafa, giving it (deservedly) low marks. But really, nobody else in tennis history, even Borg, could have done anything against this Über-level clay version of Rafa. Nobody except God himself could touch Rafa on that day. He just pounded his FH all day to Fed's BH and hardly ever missed a shot:

 
BeatlesFan said:
Many are mentioning Roger's 2008 FO against Rafa, giving it (deservedly) low marks. But really, nobody else in tennis history, even Borg, could have done anything against this Über-level clay version of Rafa. Nobody except God himself could touch Rafa on that day. He just pounded his FH all day to Fed's BH and hardly ever missed a shot:

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Well, Fed wouldn't have beaten Nadal anyway, but a better version of Fed wouldn't have got annihilated like that.
 
Federer:

AO 2018 - 7.5/10 (People are way under-rating Fed in this final from what I see)
RG 2008 - 3.5/10
Wim 2015 - 7/10
USO 2015 - 7.5/10

Nadal:
AO 2019 - 4.5/10
RG 2014/18 - b/w 8.5 and 9 out of 10
Wim 2011 - 6.5/10
USO 2019 - 7/10

Djokovic:
AO 2020 - 7.5/10
RG 2020 - 4/10
Wim 2013 - 5/10
USO 2016 - 6/10
 
mike danny said:
Dunno, don't really see peak Fed having much issues with 2011 Nadal on grass.
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Kinda had enough of Federer fans attempting to discredit Djokovic’s wins over Nadal and using them disingenuously to infer head to head superiority in favour of Federer against prime Rafa. Replace Djokovic with peak Federer at the beginning of the 2011 season and it’s quite possible that the whole year takes a completely different turn. Nadal was coming off of his best ever season coming into 2011, so its to Djokovic’s credit (and his credit alone) that he was able to establish head to head dominance in the match up and leverage that advantage in their slam encounters. Even if you want to assert that Nadal’s form would have been exactly the same without Djokovic peaking (which is false), the hypothetical matches against Federer would have looked completely different to the finals which actually materialised that year. Nadal had very little trouble against anyone not named Djokovic in 2011 (and even his level in the Djokodal encounters specifically gets a bit underrated) and we know all about Federer’s struggles against a well playing Nadal outdoors.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Many are mentioning Roger's 2008 FO against Rafa, giving it (deservedly) low marks. But really, nobody else in tennis history, even Borg, could have done anything against this Über-level clay version of Rafa. Nobody except God himself could touch Rafa on that day. He just pounded his FH all day to Fed's BH and hardly ever missed a shot:

Click to expand...
I'd forgotten Rafa had several BPs even in that one game Roger managed to win in the 1st set...
 
Mivic said:
Kinda had enough of Federer fans attempting to discredit Djokovic’s wins over Nadal and using them disingenuously to infer head to head superiority in favour of Federer against prime Rafa. Replace Djokovic with peak Federer at the beginning of the 2011 season and it’s quite possible that the whole year takes a completely different turn. Nadal was coming off of his best ever season coming into 2011, so its to Djokovic’s credit (and his credit alone) that he was able to establish head to head dominance in the match up and leverage that advantage in their slam encounters. Even if you want to assert that Nadal’s form would have been exactly the same without Djokovic peaking (which is false), the hypothetical matches against Federer would have looked completely different to the finals which actually materialised that year. Nadal had very little trouble against anyone not named Djokovic in 2011 (and even his level in the Djokodal encounters specifically gets a bit underrated) and we know all about Federer’s struggles against a well playing Nadal outdoors.
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Uhhh, against Nadal that showed up in the 2008 Wimb and 2009 AO finals, yeah. 2011 Nadal played nothing like that.

Nadal still needs to play amazingly well to beat Federer, the match-up advantage is not enough.

It's Nadal's problem that he didn't know how to deal with 2011 Djokovic, doesn't excuse his performances.

And besides, Fed leads Nadal at Wimb anyway. And in the USO final, Nadal served horribly and was breadsticked by an injured Djokovic, so yeah that level of play would not have got it done against peak Fed.
 
aldeayeah said:
Eh, I think 2011 Nadal could still take peak Fed to 5.

At best, specifically against that Rafa, I think peak Fed would do about as well as 2011 Djokovic.
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It would be closer than against Djokovic, but I don't see Nadal winning.

2011 Nadal was still not as good as 2007/2008 on grass, IMO.
 
aldeayeah said:
It was more of a matchup issue than a level issue IMO. Just like peak Fed played "worse" against Nadal.
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Uhhh, Fed still pushed Nadal to the brink in the 2008 Wimb and 2009 AO finals, in spite of the match-up issue and mental block.

2011 USO F Nadal in particular served horribly and was breadsticked by an injured Djokovic in the 4th. Doesn't seem like he had the required level to win against peak Fed.
 
Federer:
AO 18 - 6.5
RG 08 - 2
W 15 - 6
USO 15 - 6.5

Nadal
AO 19 - 3
RG 14/18/19 - 8.5
W 06/11 - 7
USO 11/19 - 6.5

Djokovic
AO 20 - 6.5
RG 20 - 3.5
W 13 - 5
USO 16 - 5
 
abmk said:
Federer:

AO 2018 - 7.5/10 (People are way under-rating Fed in this final from what I see)
RG 2008 - 3.5/10
Wim 2015 - 7/10
USO 2015 - 7.5/10

Nadal:
AO 2019 - 4.5/10
RG 2014/18 - b/w 8.5 and 9 out of 10
Wim 2011 - 6.5/10
USO 2019 - 7/10

Djokovic:
AO 2020 - 7.5/10
RG 2020 - 4/10
Wim 2013 - 5/10
USO 2016 - 6/10
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Lol at 2019 AO Nadal being better than Federer in RG 2008 or Djokovic in RG 2020. Though can't say I'm surprised.
 
95d457c97eea6d0bb970188f1cf95a47.gif


Here's my list it goes...

RAFA:
AO: 2019 (3/10)
RG: 2011 (7.5/10)
WC: 2011 (6.5/10)
USO: 2011 (6/10)

Joker:
AO: 20 (6/10)
RG: 20 (3/10)
WC: 13 (4/10)
USO: 2016 (5.5/10)

Ol' Rog:
AO: 2018 (6/10)
RG: 2008 (2/10)
WC: 2019 (6.5/10)
USO: 2015 (6.5/10)

Edit: After watching the 2011 vs 2014 RG highlights and looking at the stats, I had to change his worst RG performance.
 
Last edited:
The Blond Blur said:
95d457c97eea6d0bb970188f1cf95a47.gif


Here's my list it goes...

RAFA:
AO: 2019 (3/10)
RG: 2014 (7/10)
WC: 2011 (6.5/10)
USO: 2011 (6/10)

Joker:
AO: 20 (6/10)
RG: 20 (3/10)
WC: 13 (4/10)
USO: 2016 (5.5/10)

Ol' Rog:
AO: 2018 (6/10)
RG: 2008 (2/10)
WC: 2019 (6.5/10)
USO: 2015 (6.5/10)
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Spot on. 2015 w/uso being overrated a lot imo. Fed was pretty mediocre.
 
The Blond Blur said:
95d457c97eea6d0bb970188f1cf95a47.gif


Here's my list it goes...

RAFA:
AO: 2019 (3/10)
RG: 2014 (7/10)
WC: 2011 (6.5/10)
USO: 2011 (6/10)

Joker:
AO: 20 (6/10)
RG: 20 (3/10)
WC: 13 (4/10)
USO: 2016 (5.5/10)

Ol' Rog:
AO: 2018 (6/10)
RG: 2008 (2/10)
WC: 2019 (6.5/10)
USO: 2015 (6.5/10)
Click to expand...
A surprisingly good list. I agree with most of it.
 
Mivic said:
Kinda had enough of Federer fans attempting to discredit Djokovic’s wins over Nadal and using them disingenuously to infer head to head superiority in favour of Federer against prime Rafa. Replace Djokovic with peak Federer at the beginning of the 2011 season and it’s quite possible that the whole year takes a completely different turn. Nadal was coming off of his best ever season coming into 2011, so its to Djokovic’s credit (and his credit alone) that he was able to establish head to head dominance in the match up and leverage that advantage in their slam encounters. Even if you want to assert that Nadal’s form would have been exactly the same without Djokovic peaking (which is false), the hypothetical matches against Federer would have looked completely different to the finals which actually materialised that year. Nadal had very little trouble against anyone not named Djokovic in 2011 (and even his level in the Djokodal encounters specifically gets a bit underrated) and we know all about Federer’s struggles against a well playing Nadal outdoors.
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Lol, the arrogance.
 
@StrongRule @Yugram
Make fun of my 2020 choice. But there's no way Nadal from 2020 is >80% of his level of 2008, and there's no way he's beating Nadal of 2011/2014 who despite played shaky matches, was still far more explosive and enduring.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
quote fail
Guess you wanted to reflect my words back at me?
Have at it.
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Haha no. I was gonna say something about how I don't think Mivic had that bad a take, but then I re-read the peak Federer part and decided to spare myself of that landmine and started to backspace then accidentally pressed enter.
 
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