Big 3 peak for peak

RS

Bionic Poster
In the specific matchup, he’s ahead of both outdoors. Miles clear on clay, down on 1 surface (but nowhere near as much as he’s clear on clay, as he got W07/08 and USO13) and super close on the other one
DO on indoor clay with not much opportunity to play on indoor clay ;)
 

FedeRadi

Rookie
What many others?

There aren't so many surfaces but it's pretty clear Djokovic is a better HC and Clay player.
Federer is a better Grass player.

Grand Slam Titles
Hard: Djokovic
13 > Federer 11
Clay: Djokovic 2 > Federer 1
Grass: Federer 8 > Djokovic 7

Winning %
Hard: Djokovic
84,8% > Federer 83,3%
Clay: Djokovic 80,4% > Federer 76,1%
Grass: Federer 86,9% > Djokovic 85,8%

GS Winning %
Hard: Djokovic
89,0% > Federer 86,8%
Clay: Djokovic 84,2% > Federer 81,1%
Grass: Djokovic 89,6% > Federer 88,2%

Let's talk about peak level

Best GS Tournament
Hard: Djokovic
2011 AO > Federer 2007 AO (None of them had his best HC tournament at USO)
Clay: Djokovic 2013 RG > Federer 2007(?) RG (Federer never battled prime Rafa like Nole)
Grass: Federer 2005 WIM > Djokovic 2015 WIM (Anderson's match make the difference here)

Best Season
Hard: Djokovic
2015 > Federer 2006 (Very close but, with tie at 2 GS, WTF and 4 M1000, Djokovic had 2 M1000 F against an early exit in Cinci by Federer)
Clay: Djokovic 2011 > Federer 2006/07 (What season you choose depends from how much you value M1000 against RG, but it's not close here)
Grass: Federer 2005 > Djokovic 2015 (Not much more than Wimbledon in grass season)

Best opponent beaten(GS)
Hard: Djokovic
def. Federer at 2008 AO > Federer def. Agassi at 2004 AO (Djokovic had several wins against prime Fedal, I'm not sure which was the best opponent beaten by Fed in HC slams, a #7 post-prime Agassi? a pre-prime Nole and not 2010 one? A 2014 Murray, prime but in a bad season?)
Clay: Federer def. Djokovic at 2011 RG > Djokovic def. Nadal at 2021 RG (Arguably, a win over Nadal is always more impressive at RG)
Grass: Federer def. Djokovic at 2012 WIM > Djokovic def. Nadal at 2011 WIM

That's not much, but you don't need to go deep when results are pretty clear by a basic analysis.
It would be interesting talking about indoor(Or indoor HC) as a surface, I think that would be pretty debatable.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
There aren't so many surfaces but it's pretty clear Djokovic is a better HC and Clay player.
Federer is a better Grass player.

Grand Slam Titles
Hard: Djokovic
13 > Federer 11
Clay: Djokovic 2 > Federer 1
Grass: Federer 8 > Djokovic 7

Winning %
Hard: Djokovic
84,8% > Federer 83,3%
Clay: Djokovic 80,4% > Federer 76,1%
Grass: Federer 86,9% > Djokovic 85,8%

GS Winning %
Hard: Djokovic
89,0% > Federer 86,8%
Clay: Djokovic 84,2% > Federer 81,1%
Grass: Djokovic 89,6% > Federer 88,2%

Let's talk about peak level

Best GS Tournament
Hard: Djokovic
2011 AO > Federer 2007 AO (None of them had his best HC tournament at USO)
Clay: Djokovic 2013 RG > Federer 2007(?) RG (Federer never battled prime Rafa like Nole)
Grass: Federer 2005 WIM > Djokovic 2015 WIM (Anderson's match make the difference here)

Best Season
Hard: Djokovic
2015 > Federer 2006 (Very close but, with tie at 2 GS, WTF and 4 M1000, Djokovic had 2 M1000 F against an early exit in Cinci by Federer)
Clay: Djokovic 2011 > Federer 2006/07 (What season you choose depends from how much you value M1000 against RG, but it's not close here)
Grass: Federer 2005 > Djokovic 2015 (Not much more than Wimbledon in grass season)

Best opponent beaten(GS)
Hard: Djokovic
def. Federer at 2008 AO > Federer def. Agassi at 2004 AO (Djokovic had several wins against prime Fedal, I'm not sure which was the best opponent beaten by Fed in HC slams, a #7 post-prime Agassi? a pre-prime Nole and not 2010 one? A 2014 Murray, prime but in a bad season?)
Clay: Federer def. Djokovic at 2011 RG > Djokovic def. Nadal at 2021 RG (Arguably, a win over Nadal is always more impressive at RG)
Grass: Federer def. Djokovic at 2012 WIM > Djokovic def. Nadal at 2011 WIM

That's not much, but you don't need to go deep when results are pretty clear by a basic analysis.
It would be interesting talking about indoor(Or indoor HC) as a surface, I think that would be pretty debatable.
Agreed with All except peak clay. Djokovic won RG, Federer lost RG. Not equal.
 

FedeRadi

Rookie
Agreed with All except peak clay. Djokovic won RG, Federer lost RG. Not equal.

I agree on Peak Clay Djokovic > Peak Clay Federer.
I only said Federer beat the best opponent in 2011 Djokovic.
But there was some Djokovic version who were better than 2011 Federer that either:
-Didn't had a though test like 2011 Djokovic, but would have probably beat him too (2016 RG Djokovic) or
-Had a thougher test(Prime Nadal) and lost to him, Federer 2011 lost to him too(And with a less competitive match than several prime Djokodal RG matches)
 

Europa1

Rookie
I’m so tired of peak level debates. The only way to do it imo is to actually force people to watch a set of like 20 relevant “peak” matches over a weekend. No Wikipedia allowed just the eye test. Hold their eyes open and watch these guys play their best tennis, a Clockwork Orange style. I swear most people just haven’t watched 04-07 matches, that’s the only explanation.
Nadal and Djokovic are the great film directors. Federer is Kubrick.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
I enjoy reading the comments of millionaires, posters that got rich predicting who would win using their incredible eye-test powers.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic vs Federer

AO: Djokovic narrowly
FO: Djokovic narrowly
W: Federer
USO: Federer

YEC: Federer

Djokovic vs Nadal

AO: Djokovic
FO: Nadal
W: Djokovic narrowly
USO: 50/50

YEC: Djokovic

Federer vs Nadal

AO: Federer
FO: Nadal
W: Federer
USO: Federer

YEC: Federer
Federer vs. Djokovic
AO: Djokovic clearly, not even close (Fed hasn't won more than one set against Djokovic since 2008 in 4 AO meetings).

Djokovic vs. Nadal
USO: Nadal (leads the H2H 2-1 in matches where both where at their peak).

Federer vs. Nadal:
AO: Nadal (leads the H2H 3-1 at the AO, including the AO 2009 final with both at their peak).
USO: untestable, therefore irrelevant (you concluding it's Federer despite Federer having 0 victories against post-2010 Djokovic at the USO unlike Nadal who leads the H2H over post-2010 Djokovic at the event, despite Nadal leading the H2H in outdoor hard over Roger, and despite the Fedal rivalry having 0 meetings at the USO, makes no sense).
 
D

Deleted member 805385

Guest
Federer vs. Djokovic
AO: Djokovic clearly, not even close (Fed hasn't won more than one set against Djokovic since 2008 in 4 AO meetings).

Djokovic vs. Nadal
USO: Nadal (leads the H2H 2-1 in matches where both where at their peak).

Federer vs. Nadal:
AO: Nadal (leads the H2H 3-1 at the AO, including the AO 2009 final with both at their peak).
USO: untestable, therefore irrelevant (you concluding it's Federer despite Federer having 0 victories against post-2010 Djokovic at the USO unlike Nadal who leads the H2H over post-2010 Djokovic at the event, despite Nadal leading the H2H in outdoor hard over Roger, and despite the Fedal rivalry having 0 meetings at the USO, makes no sense).
lol
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
RN2aziB.png
Best post of 2023.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I’m so tired of peak level debates. The only way to do it imo is to actually force people to watch a set of like 20 relevant “peak” matches over a weekend. No Wikipedia allowed just the eye test. Hold their eyes open and watch these guys play their best tennis, a Clockwork Orange style. I swear most people just haven’t watched 04-07 matches, that’s the only explanation.
Just in tennis or in other sports too?
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
I can only get for up them in Tennis and Boxing.

It is most fun 1v1. 11 vs 11 or 6 vs 6 or even 2 vs 2 doesn't feel the same to me.
LeBron BOAT peak and Kane best striker of his generation is about the only thing I am willing to debate, but even that is because I watched basically every second of them and can immediately tell when people are lying or uninformed about it. Of course I am not as informed about other contenders for the title of BOAT peak.

whereas in tennis you basically watch every top player equally.

Ultimately we can only pay so much attention.
 
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