Big 3 - Records against the top 10 in slams

zagor said:
Yeah, but he still did a ridiculously good job defending his fort. Nadal doesn't have to be at his utmost best to handle Djokodal at FO while IMO they have to be to (or atleast closer to their best) do so on their surfaces like HC and grass (in Fed's case).

Have to give him credit for that.
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well it helps when the sample at Fed and Djokovic's best slams is a total of 4 (and in the 3 wins it's pretty clear that neither Federer nor Djokovic played to the best levels they showed at those events) while the sample at Nadal's best slam is 40.
 
NatF said:
Yeah what's Nadal's record at Wimbledon since 2012 again? You think he was going all the way to the final and stopping Federer as well? :D
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What does his performances from WIM 2013+ have to do with what he could've done at WIM 12 had he not been injured?

NatF said:
But that same argument doesn't apply to Federer no? Despite him being a much more proven champion at 3/4 venues. In Federer's case it's lucky weak era benefactor, in Nadal's case the other players are lucky they didn't face him? :D You're hilarious man I'm glad this thread attracted you.
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Of course it attracted me, it was created by you so I knew there was some crap about Nadal. Now I just had to show you up and you don't like it. And to answer your rhetoric question, YES and proven by the fact that Nadal also beat Fed in majors while Fed couldn't do the same to him.

NatF said:
Novak in 2010 was in pretty good form, Novak in 2013 was subpar. It's not like Federer hasn't beaten Novak twice in his USO wins either...In every one of Federer's draw's he played someone in at least equivalent form to Djokovic 2010/2013;

2004: Agassi
2005: Agassi and Hewitt
2006: Black and Roddick
2007: Roddick and Djokovic
2008: Djokovic
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LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!!
 
The_Order said:
Well yeah, so he was in his best form all year heading into the final!

I do like how this keeps being brought up over and over and over and over and over though. Now remind me, how many top 10 victories did Andy Roddick have before reaching the 2006 US Open final? Because I never see this being mentioned unless I bring it up, oh and let's take it to the next level, how many top 10 victories did Roddick have in 2005 and 2006 combined before reaching the 2006 US Open final?
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I am only talking about Djokovic. You can discuss the Roddick stuff with the Fed fans here. Djokovic being in the best form of the year doesn't mean much. If I turned my math result from an F to an E, I might be in the best math form, but I still suck. :)
 
NatF said:
Or he's been more selective for when he turns up for big matches ;)
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And which are these "selective" occasions?

Surely not AO09 after a 5 hour semi and a day less rest. Oh and the same thing 8 years later against the same opportunist?
 
Hitman said:
I am only talking about Djokovic. You can discuss the Roddick stuff with the Fed fans here. Djokovic being in the best form of the year doesn't mean much. If I turned my math result from an F to an E, I might be in the best math form, but I still suck. :)
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At least you don't fail.
 
mike danny said:
This is in response to a troll thread started by a Nadal troll.
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I'm just giving examples. Obviously, they all have those. The data is flawed, which makes it stupid

Best example is probably that Djokovic losing to Safin at the '05 Aussie Open counts for this.
 
NatF said:
Yeah what's Nadal's record at Wimbledon since 2012 again? You think he was going all the way to the final and stopping Federer as well? :D

But that same argument doesn't apply to Federer no? Despite him being a much more proven champion at 3/4 venues. In Federer's case it's lucky weak era benefactor, in Nadal's case the other players are lucky they didn't face him? :D You're hilarious man I'm glad this thread attracted you.

Novak in 2010 was in pretty good form, Novak in 2013 was subpar. It's not like Federer hasn't beaten Novak twice in his USO wins either...In every one of Federer's draw's he played someone in at least equivalent form to Djokovic 2010/2013;

2004: Agassi
2005: Agassi and Hewitt
2006: Black and Roddick
2007: Roddick and Djokovic
2008: Djokovic
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HEOJs.gif
 
Red Rick said:
Run for what? terrible data selection? I'm just giving examples.
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Obviously the top 10 cutoff is arbitrary and means very little (in this case though the general conclusion is absolutely correct even if you do a deeper examination) which I've said many times myself, but the author of this thread knows that very well and the point of the thread was primarily in jest.
 
The_Order said:
Bit extreme though, Novak was actually playing some high level tennis in that final.
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He was decent, I think high level is a little far fetched imo. He certainly did not have that killer instinct look in his eye. Was an enjoyable match though.
 
The_Order said:
What does his performances from WIM 2013+ have to do with what he could've done at WIM 12 had he not been injured?
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It was the start of a trend, healthy or not Nadal has done poorly at Wimbledon since 2012. There's no guarantee he would have beaten Rosol or Murray let alone Federer (in what become indoor conditions) in 2012. The fact you want to entertain and prolong the idea is hilarious.

Of course it attracted me, it was created by you so I knew there was some crap about Nadal. Now I just had to show you up and you don't like it. And to answer your rhetoric question, YES and proven by the fact that Nadal also beat Fed in majors while Fed couldn't do the same to him.
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This thread was meant to just have a laugh at the expense of some other threads that have been posted on here the last few days. My post about the weak clay era was sarcastic. Sadly you have a perpetual hate boner and can't resist your urges to get smacked publicly :D

LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!!
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You can fake laugh all you want, doesn't stop it from being true ;) Djokovic in 2007 is the only iffy one in there.



Red Rick said:
HEOJs.gif
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Haha whooops :D You can tell I'm a fan of Hewitt.
 
metsman said:
Obviously the top 10 cutoff is arbitrary and means very little (in this case though the general conclusion is absolutely correct even if you do a deeper examination) which I've said many times myself, but the author of this thread knows that very well and the point of the thread was primarily in jest.
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Yeah top 10 is arbitrary but not half as arbitrary as "Big 3 meetings". Not that anyone in the VB could understand the irony while they're busy foaming at the mouth.
 
metsman said:
well it helps when the sample at Fed and Djokovic's best slams is a total of 4 (and in the 3 wins it's pretty clear that neither Federer nor Djokovic played to the best levels they showed at those events) while the sample at Nadal's best slam is 40.
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I agree with that, however if Nadal was good enough to stop Fed way back in 2005 and still good enough to do the same to Novak in say 2013 then that is one impressive run. Keeping in mind that they combined pushed him to 5 sets once in all those meetings and that was a match in which Nadal was still serving for a 4 set win (IIRC).

I think Fed and Novak both reached similarly high levels at their favourite slams (Fed in 2003-2006 on grass and Novak in some of his AO runs like 2008 and 2011) but they couldn't keep them for such a prolonged period.
 
The_Order said:
What does his performances from WIM 2013+ have to do with what he could've done at WIM 12 had he not been injured?
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I get it. If not injured, Nadal would have won because it is universally acknowledged that a healthy Nadal doesn't lose. ;)



The_Order said:
Of course it attracted me, it was created by you so I knew there was some crap about Nadal. Now I just had to show you up and you don't like it. And to answer your rhetoric question, YES and proven by the fact that Nadal also beat Fed in majors while Fed couldn't do the same to him.
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If you had bothered to scan the first page, you would have seen that one of your homies opened a troll thread in the first place to belittle Fed.



The_Order said:
LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!!
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Laugh all you want. That's pretty much the only thing you can do because you have no other arguments. Djokovic in the 2013 USO final didn't play any better than Roddick in the 2006 USO final. And Blake played better than anyone Nadal faced before his USO finals, so I don't get why you're laughing.

Roddick in 2007 also played better than anyone Nadal faced before the finals. And Djokovic in 2007 also did not play any worse than Djokovic in 2010 or 2013.

Number of games won in the 2013 final by Djokovic: 13.
Number of games won in the 2007 final by Djokovic: 16.

Number of games won in the 2010 final by Djokovic: 17.
Number of games won in the 2007 final by Djokovic: 16.
 
The_Order said:
Who were these lower ranked guys playing at a higher level?
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Not talking about lower ranked guys necessarily.

A couple of examples: 2013 USO final Djokovic didn't play any better than 2006 USO Roddick. 2004 Wimb Roddick played better than 2011 Wimb final Nadal.
 
The_Order said:
And which are these "selective" occasions?

Surely not AO09 after a 5 hour semi and a day less rest. Oh and the same thing 8 years later against the same opportunist?
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If Federer had been a good opportunist, he would have feasted on 2015 Nadal just like Nadal did to him in 2013. ;) Clearly not enough of an opportunist.
 
The_Order said:
Well yeah, so he was in his best form all year heading into the final!

I do like how this keeps being brought up over and over and over and over and over though. Now remind me, how many top 10 victories did Andy Roddick have before reaching the 2006 US Open final? Because I never see this being mentioned unless I bring it up, oh and let's take it to the next level, how many top 10 victories did Roddick have in 2005 and 2006 combined before reaching the 2006 US Open final?
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Which proves that Novak in 2010 wasn't some incredible alien competition that Nadal had to overcome to win the USO.
 
mike danny said:
Laugh all you want. That's pretty much the only thing you can do because you have no other arguments. Djokovic in the 2013 USO final didn't play any better than Roddick in the 2006 USO final. And Blake played better than anyone Nadal faced before his USO finals, so I don't get why you're laughing.

Roddick in 2007 also played better than anyone Nadal faced before the finals. And Djokovic in 2007 also did not play any worse than Djokovic in 2010 or 2013.

Number of games won in the 2013 final by Djokovic: 13.
Number of games won in the 2007 final by Djokovic: 16.

Number of games won in the 2010 final by Djokovic: 17.
Number of games won in the 2007 final by Djokovic: 16.
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Blake and Roddick before the finals were on the same level or better than anyone Nadal faced including the finals.
 
metsman said:
*best big match player of his era when conditions and circumstances suit him.
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Funny how the circumstances suit him fairly often when he comes across Federer and Djokovic in slams isn't it? Lmao. What it is, like 8-4 winning head to head against Djokovic and Federer off clay? Of course that's all the circumstances suiting Nadal yeah? There is no way Federer and Djokovic should take some responsibility for being DOMINATED in slam head to head?
 
zagor said:
I agree with that, however if Nadal was good enough to stop Fed way back in 2005 and still good enough to do the same to Novak in say 2013 then that is one impressive run. Keeping in mind that they combined pushed him to 5 sets once in all those meetings and that was a match in which Nadal was still serving for a 4 set win (IIRC).

I think Fed and Novak both reached similarly high levels at their favourite slams (Fed in 2003-2006 on grass and Novak in some of his AO runs like 2008 and 2011) but they couldn't keep them for such a prolonged period.
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Federer at the USO at his peak as well.
even some of the AO runs (04,05,07, 10 SF/F etc.)
 
abmk said:
Federer at the USO at his peak as well.
even some of the AO runs (04,05,07, 10 SF/F etc.)
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Well, sure that's why he's Fed. Atleast 5 slams at 3 different venues.

However, his grass dominance was the most absolute one. He barely lost sets on it in 2003-2006.
 
zagor said:
Well, sure that's why he's Fed. Atleast 5 slams at 3 different venues.

However, his grass dominance was the most absolute one. He barely lost sets on it in 2003-2006.
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agreed, re : grass being the most absolute one.
As far as other slams go, I was talking about dominance/level in those slams, not just the total .

So not counting AO 06/AO 17 as that high level for instance.
 
The_Order said:
Yeah I don't remember a Federer era since Nadal knocked him off his perch. Since then, he only reached #1 again when Nadal was out injured in 09 and 12. LOL.

Obviously its because when Nadal was at his best, Fed couldn't keep up with him. Then when Novak was at his best, Fed struggled against him big time too.

He only dominated before the arrival of Rafa and Novak.

Now that Novak is no longer around at top level and Nadal is running at half his speed compared to a decade ago, Fed can vulture more success again, but still can't recapture that #1 ranking with Nadal around...
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It's Nadal's fault that he can't be consistency stay healthy. It's part of the sport and he can't blame anyone else .

Nadal couldn't keep up with a 36 years old Federer in 2017.
 
Hitman said:
He was decent, I think high level is a little far fetched imo. He certainly did not have that killer instinct look in his eye. Was an enjoyable match though.
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Not really farfetched at all. Overall I'd say he was above decent but there were definitely some patches of play from Novak that were high level. First point of the match for example. He just couldn't produce it consistently throughout the match.
 
The_Order said:
Not really farfetched at all. Overall I'd say he was above decent but there were definitely some patches of play from Novak that were high level. First point of the match for example. He just couldn't produce it consistently throughout the match.
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Yet 07 Djokovic is LOL worthy competition according to you?
 
The_Order said:
Not really farfetched at all. Overall I'd say he was above decent but there were definitely some patches of play from Novak that were high level. First point of the match for example. He just couldn't produce it consistently throughout the match.
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I guess it is a matter of opinion. It was an enjoyable match but I think that comes from the way Djokovic matches up to Nadal, but a lot of people could see the big difference in the Novak Djokovic the brilliant entertainer then to Novak Djokovic the fighting machine of 2011. He's my guy so I watch him more closely than any other player. For me, he wasn't all that in USO 2010 barring a few flashes of brilliance...the two MPs he saved for example against Fed.
 
The_Order said:
Yeah blowing 6 set points across the first two sets choking like a hooker in his first ever major final hahaha
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Yeah better to lose sets 6-2 or 6-1 hitting tons of errors all the way through right...

Typical VB logic right there, better to lose without even being in position to win than to get close and fail.
 
NatF said:
Yeah better to lose sets 6-2 or 6-1 hitting tons of errors all the way through right...

Typical VB logic right there, better to lose without even being in position to win than to get close and fail.
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Yeah you do realise he also actually won sets against Nadal and playing at a high level to do so. Had he brought that level in 07 final he would've won the first two sets.
 
The_Order said:
Yeah you do realise he also actually won sets against Nadal and playing at a high level to do so. Had he brought that level in 07 final he would've won the first two sets.
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Number of games won in the 2007 final: 16
Number of games won in the 2010 final: 17
Number of games won in the 2013 final: 13

He won only won more game in 2010 than in 2007 despite winning a set. And he won less games in the 2013 final despite winning a set. Which proves he wasn't that much better in the 2010 and 2013 finals.
 
The_Order said:
Yeah you do realise he also actually won sets against Nadal and playing at a high level to do so. Had he brought that level in 07 final he would've won the first two sets.
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Had he brought his level from the first set of the 2013 final in 2007 he wouldn't have sniffed a tiebreak. Let's be real here. The 2013 final had higher highs from Djokovic but lower lows. I think the 2010 final was maybe a bit better from Djokovic overall but nothing crazy.
 
NatF said:
Or he's been more selective for when he turns up for big matches ;)
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He has 16 slams. How can you be selevtive with that many slams. If he's always ducking Djokovic and Federer (complete nonsense imo) then he'd have maybe 8 slams or something.
 
NatF said:
Had he brought his level from the first set of the 2013 final in 2007 he wouldn't have sniffed a tiebreak. Let's be real here. The 2013 final had higher highs from Djokovic but lower lows. I think the 2010 final was maybe a bit better from Djokovic overall but nothing crazy.
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2013 USO final djoko loses 1st set vs 07 final Federer, wins 2nd set, loses 3rd (federer was clearly better than nadal in the respective 3rd sets and Nadal was able to wrestle it from djoko's grasp. Expect federer to straight up take the set by the virtue of just being better than djokovic) and loses the 4th set.

Basically the same end result as vs Nadal USO13, loses in 4 sets.
 
thrust said:
To the Federer Fanatics, they are-LOL!
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Still waiting for your response in the other thread. I could use a laugh so it would be good if you responded :P

abmk said:
2013 USO final djoko loses 1st set vs 07 final Federer, wins 2nd set, loses 3rd (federer was clearly better than nadal in the respective 3rd sets and Nadal was able to wrestle it from djoko's grasp) and loses the 4th set.
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Nadal was pretty passive in sets 2 and 3, Nadal is the kind of player that can let opponents get into the groove offensively.
 
abmk said:
2013 USO final djoko loses 1st set vs 07 final Federer, wins 2nd set, loses 3rd (federer was clearly better than nadal in the respective 3rd sets and Nadal was able to wrestle it from djoko's grasp. Expect federer to straight up take the set by the virtue of just being better than djokovic) and loses the 4th set.

Basically the same end result as vs Nadal USO13, loses in 4 sets.
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2013 USO Djokovic didn't play better than 2008 USO Djokovic whom Federer also beat in 4 sets.
 
killerboi2 said:
Funny how the circumstances suit him fairly often when he comes across Federer and Djokovic in slams isn't it? Lmao. What it is, like 8-4 winning head to head against Djokovic and Federer off clay? Of course that's all the circumstances suiting Nadal yeah? There is no way Federer and Djokovic should take some responsibility for being DOMINATED in slam head to head?
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Its 7-6
4-3 vs fed
3-3 vs djoko

Could've taken a minute to check it instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.
 
NatF said:
Nadal was pretty passive in sets 2 and 3, Nadal is the kind of player that can let opponents get into the groove offensively.
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Agree. but giving credit to djoko playing well in 2nd set , let say he wins that.

But he doesn't win anything more than that, i.e just wins one set.
 
abmk said:
Agree. but giving credit to djoko playing well in 2nd set , let say he wins that.

But he doesn't win anything more than that, i.e just wins one set.
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Yeah I wasn't saying that Djokovic wasn't great in set 2. The 2007 final wasn't Federer's finest match so I don't think he straight sets him - he was much better in the QF ;)
 
abmk said:
Its 7-6
4-3 vs fed
3-3 vs djoko

Could've taken a minute to check it instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.
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Oh yeah, 8-4 is if we remove Djoko and Fed's favourite slams, because that's always what Fed and Djoko fans say we should do with Nadal. Still has winning head to head against them though, along with his general slam domination of them.
 
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