Big 3 slam final losses to other players

[The_Order]

Federer - 1:

US2009 L. Del Potro: 6–3, 6–7(5–7), 6–4, 6–7(4–7), 2–6

Nadal - 1:

AO2014 L. Wawrinka: 3–6, 2–6, 6–3, 3–6

Djokovic - 7:

US2012 L. Murray: 6–7(10–12), 5–7, 6–2, 6–3, 2–6

WIM2013 L. Murray: 4–6, 5–7, 4–6

RG2015 L. Wawrinka: 6–4, 4–6, 3–6, 4–6

US2016 L. Wawrinka: 7–6(7–1), 4–6, 5–7, 3–6

US2021 L. Medvedev: 4–6, 4–6, 4–6

WIM2023 L. Alcaraz: 6–1, 6–7(6–8), 1–6, 6–3, 4–6

WIM2024 L. Alcaraz: 2–6, 2–6, 6–7(4–7)

What it tells us?

 

[MeatTornado]

That Djokovic has played a crap load of finals

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Fedal we’re just light years better against the field in their days

 

[gamelovergold]

It tells that novak could not capitalise on oppurtunites like fedrer and rafa . If his resume also had only one loss to other players like fedrer and nadal he would have 30 slams .
But on the other hand it tells that he has played more finals than fedrer and rafa means he was more consistent (long term ) .

 

[TheFifthSet]

Djokovic wasn't as automatic in the GS finals he was "supposed to" win, but he also just showed up in mediocre form a lot of the time - '13 Wimby, '16 USO and '21 USO, Wimby '24. For Nadal that maybe happened once against a non-Big 3, '22 AO.

 

[fedfan24]

Fedal “feel” like the better players in the big 3 at their best. Djokovic has the longevity and more steady, consistent level.

 

[MeatTornado]

Djokovic wasn't as automatic in the GS finals he was "supposed to" win, but he also just showed up in mediocre form a lot of the time - '13 Wimby, '16 USO and '21 USO, Wimby '24. For Nadal that maybe happened once against a non-Big 3, '22 AO.

2019 USO Nadal looked awful for most of the tournament.

 

[TheFifthSet]

2019 USO Nadal looked awful for most of the tournament.

He cleaned things up pretty well by the semi though, don't think Berrettini got a single look at his serve -- no sterling accomplishment there, but an improvement from the rest of the tourney.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

That Federer and Nadal lost to other players before the final instead of the final.

And that Djokovic reached a ****load of finals even when he wasn't anywhere near his best (USO 2016, Wimbledon 2024, etc).

 

[gamelovergold]

Fedal “feel” like the better players in the big 3 at their best. Djokovic has the longevity and more steady, consistent level.

There is one old saying
All is well that ends well.
Novak in 2023 did the unthinkable by winning 3 slams and that sealed the deal.
Regarding who was better i would give my vote to nadal.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

2019 USO Nadal looked awful for most of the tournament.

How? He dropped one set before the final and it was to a former champion. He routined Schwartzmann who sometimes caused him trouble and Berrettini. He had a slump in sets 3 and 4 in the final but to me it was clear nobody bar Djokerer who were owning him outside clay at the time were beating him, once they were out Nadal was a sure thing. Though yeah, at 2-2 in the final it looked like it could go either way, but in the end logic prevailed. He played better in 2017 but in 2019 his level was pretty good too.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Fedal “feel” like the better players in the big 3 at their best. Djokovic has the longevity and more steady, consistent level.

On HC, which constitutes 70% of the tour, Djokovic is the best at their best.

 

[The_Order]

On HC, which constitutes 70% of the tour, Djokovic is the best at their best.

2/4 slams = 50%

Also, 2-1 Nadal at one of those HC slams...

 

[MeatTornado]

How? He dropped one set before the final and it was to a former champion. He routined Schwartzmann who sometimes caused him trouble and Berrettini. He had a slump in sets 3 and 4 in the final but to me it was clear nobody bar Djokerer who were owning him outside clay at the time were beating him, once they were out Nadal was a sure thing. Though yeah, at 2-2 in the final it looked like it could go either way, but in the end logic prevailed. He played better in 2017 but in 2019 his level was pretty good too.

Did you not watch the matches? Don't go by the score lines or highlights. There was nothing routine about the Diego match. Or the Cilic one.

That was a rare tournament where Rafa looked like he wanted to pass out at times. He was so out of it.

 

[fedfan24]

On HC, which constitutes 70% of the tour, Djokovic is the best at their best.

Maybe on like a sticky, slow dead court like early 2010s AO or old Miami. On a proper HC like USO, Shanghai, Cincy you’d take Federer. Nadal at USO too of course with the 2-1.

 

[fedfan24]

There is one old saying
All is well that ends well.
Novak in 2023 did the unthinkable by winning 3 slams and that sealed the deal.
Regarding who was better i would give my vote to nadal.

And he won them without a single challenge or bit of resistance from guys 10-15 years younger than him at their peak.

 

[James_Bolt]

Federer - 1:

US2009 L. Del Potro: 6–3, 6–7(5–7), 6–4, 6–7(4–7), 2–6

Nadal - 1:

AO2014 L. Wawrinka: 3–6, 2–6, 6–3, 3–6

Djokovic - 7:

US2012 L. Murray: 6–7(10–12), 5–7, 6–2, 6–3, 2–6

WIM2013 L. Murray: 4–6, 5–7, 4–6

RG2015 L. Wawrinka: 6–4, 4–6, 3–6, 4–6

US2016 L. Wawrinka: 7–6(7–1), 4–6, 5–7, 3–6

US2021 L. Medvedev: 4–6, 4–6, 4–6

WIM2023 L. Alcaraz: 6–1, 6–7(6–8), 1–6, 6–3, 4–6

WIM2024 L. Alcaraz: 2–6, 2–6, 6–7(4–7)

What it tells us?

That Federer and Nadal lost often to non Big3 players before the final.

 

[GabeT]

That Federer and Nadal lost often to non Big3 players before the final.

Yep

 

[Jezza94]

Big 3 Slam Semi Final losses to other players

Federer = 4

AO2005 L. Safin: 7-5 4-6 7-5 6-7, 7-9

AO2013 L. Murray: 4-6 7-6, 3-6 7-6, 2-6

US2014 L. Cilic: 3-6 4-6 4-6

WIM2016 L. Raonic: 3-6 7-6 6-4 5-7 6-3


Nadal = 4

AO2008 L. Tsonga: 2-6 3-6 2-6

US2008 L. Murray: 2-6 6-7 6-4 4-6

US2009 L. Del Potro: 2-6 2-6 2-6

US2018 L. Del Potro: 6-7 2-6 0-0r


Djokovic = 5

WIM2010 L. Berdych: 3-6 6-7 3-6

US2014 L. Nishikori: 4-6 6-1 6-7 3-6

RG 2019 L. Thiem: 2-6 6-3 5-7 7-5 5-7

AO2024 L. Sinner: 1-6 2-6 7-6 3-6

AO2025 L. Zverev: 6-7 0-0r

 

[The_Order]

That Federer and Nadal lost often to non Big3 players before the final.

I've seen this bandied around a lot... so let me destroy it for you and every other Djok copium patient:

Nadal played in 30 slam finals, record 22/8.

He lost his one and only slam final to a non big 3 opponent in his 19th slam final...

Federer played in 31 slam finals, record 20/11.

He lost his one and only slam final to non a big 3 opponent in his 21st slam final...

Djokovic played in 37 slam finals, record 24/13.

He lost his first slam final to non big 3 opponent in:

only his 9th slam final...

Then again in his 11th slam final...

Then again in his 16th slam final...

Then again in his 21st slam final...

His other losses came in 31st, 35th and 37th finals...

Djok has consistently been losing to non big 3 opponents in slam finals throughout his career...

To say Nadal and Federer "lost often to non Big3 players before the final" is a complete load of Djok copium gas...

Slam finals Djokovic reached without Fedal in the draw:

US21, RG23, WIM23, US23, WIM24.

So there's 5 where they weren't even a factor...

For Nadal - AO22.

For Federer - WIM04.

 

[MichaelNadal]

2019 USO Nadal looked awful for most of the tournament.

He knew he had to get it together in such a slam-winning kit

 

[James_Bolt]

I've seen this bandied around a lot... so let me destroy it for you and every other Djok copium patient:

Nadal played in 30 slam finals, record 22/8.

He lost his one and only slam final to a non big 3 opponent in his 19th slam final...

Federer played in 31 slam finals, record 20/11.

He lost his one and only slam final to non a big 3 opponent in his 21st slam final...

Djokovic played in 37 slam finals, record 24/13.

He lost his first slam final to non big 3 opponent in:

only his 9th slam final...

Then again in his 11th slam final...

Then again in his 16th slam final...

Then again in his 21st slam final...

His other losses came in 31st, 35th and 37th finals...

Djok has consistently been losing to non big 3 opponents in slam finals throughout his career...

To say Nadal and Federer "lost often to non Big3 players before the final" is a complete load of Djok copium gas...

Slam finals Djokovic reached without Fedal in the draw:

US21, RG23, WIM23, US23, WIM24.

So there's 5 where they weren't even a factor...

For Nadal - AO22.

For Federer - WIM04.

Djokovic fans don't need coping mechanism because we know how much damage Djokovic has done to Nadal and Federer numbers.
If Djokovic never existed, Federer and Nadal numbers would be CRAZY:

• In Slams:
  • Nadal or Federer would have close to 30 Slams
  • Nadal would have a quadruple career slam (2 more Wimbledon and 2 more AO)
  • Federer would have double-digit Wimbledon
• In ATP finals
  • Nadal would have a least one ATP finals (the biggest hole in his career)
  • Federer would have, may be, double-digit ATP finals (crazy number)
• In Masters1000
  • Nadal would have close to 50 Masters1000 (crazy number)
• In Weeks #1
  • Nadal and Federer would have more than 400 weeks #1

Now let's go back to the topic.
From his Grand Slams appearances, Nadal lost 49% of the time to non Big3 members, Djokovic 45% and Federer 48%.
So percentage wise (as they don't have the same number of appearences) Nadal is the member of Big3 who lost the most against non Big3 members in Slams.

And if we compute the average rank of the non Big3 players they lost to, it get worse for Nadal.

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic fans don't need coping mechanism because we know how much damage Djokovic has done to Nadal and Federer numbers.
If Djokovic never existed, Federer and Nadal numbers would be CRAZY:

• In Slams:
  • Nadal or Federer would have close to 30 Slams
  • Nadal would have a quadruple career slam (2 more Wimbledon and 2 more AO)
  • Federer would have double-digit Wimbledon
• In ATP finals
  • Nadal would have a least one ATP finals (the biggest hole in his career)
  • Federer would have, may be, double-digit ATP finals (crazy number)
• In Masters1000
  • Nadal would have close to 50 Masters1000 (crazy number)
• In Weeks #1
  • Nadal and Federer would have more than 400 weeks #1

Now let's go back to the topic.
From his Grand Slams appearances, Nadal lost 49% of the time to non Big3 members, Djokovic 45% and Federer 48%.
So percentage wise (as they don't have the same number of appearences) Nadal is the member of Big3 who lost the most against non Big3 members in Slams.

And if we compute the average rank of the non Big3 players they lost to, it get worse for Nadal.

Do we have stats for how many times the big 3 each lost to a player ranked 100 and below in slams?

Nadal infamously has the four in a row at Wimbledon from 2012 to 2015. Which others have pulled the rug out from under the big 3 in slams while ranked in the triple digits?

 

[James_Bolt]

Do we have stats for how many times the big 3 each lost to a player ranked 100 and below in slams?

Nadal infamously has the four in a row at Wimbledon from 2012 to 2015. Which others have pulled the rug out from under the big 3 in slams while ranked in the triple digits?

Losses of the Big3 in Slams to player ranked 100+:
- Nadal (4): Lukas Rosol (ranked 100 - W2012); Steve Darcis (ranked 135 - W2013); Nick Kyrgios (ranked 144 - W2014); Dustin Brown (ranked 102 - W2015)
- Federer (2): Mario Ancic (ranked 154 - W2002); Sergiy Stakhovsky (ranked 116 - W2013)
- Djokovic (1): Denis Istomin (ranked 117 - AO 2017)

Average ranking of non-Big3 players who defeated the Big3 in Slams:
- Nadal: 32
- Federer: 28
- Djokivc: 24

 

[The_Order]

Djokovic fans don't need coping mechanism because we know how much damage Djokovic has done to Nadal and Federer numbers.
If Djokovic never existed, Federer and Nadal numbers would be CRAZY:

Hahahaha, you sure about that? Djok copium patients are constantly trying to validate him on a daily basis here...

Also, you shouldn't derail the thread, posting other stats... go create your own thread for that.

 

[The_Order]

Do we have stats for how many times the big 3 each lost to a player ranked 100 and below in slams?

Nadal infamously has the four in a row at Wimbledon from 2012 to 2015. Which others have pulled the rug out from under the big 3 in slams while ranked in the triple digits?

Yeah, pretty crap from Nadal.

 

[SonnyT]

It tells us Djokovic victimized Federer and Nadal a whole lot!

 

[RS]

Truth is no player is flawless. Djokovic fans would be lying if they said they wouldn't have wanted to Djokovic win those 7 finals.

 

[NoleFam]

It tells us that since Djokovic has the superior win percentage of the 3 in Slams that Federer and Nadal lost more often before the final than he did. That's pretty clear since he has 7 more finals than Nadal and 6 more than Federer.

 

[James_Bolt]

Truth is no player is flawless. Djokovic fans would be lying if they said they wouldn't have wanted to Djokovic win those 7 finals.

Absolutely. No fan wants his favourite player to lose.
The problem is that some fans like to use truncated information to create a false narrative.

 

[SonnyT]

Yet Federer's winning percentages in the slam finals were worse than Djokovic, and apart from RG, Nadal only won 50%. This showed that they suffered from each other and, especially, Djokovic! Think about it, post-'11, against Djokovic, Federer was 2-9, and Nadal, apart from RG, was 1-5! And most of the meetings were at the finals!

Apart from RG, 2-9 was percentage-wide better than 1-5, so Federer wasn't so bad after all!

 

[The Blond Blur]

It’s the biggest case against Joker being the best big match player. That and the number of times he was straight setted in GS Fs.

Fed def Joker USO 07: 7–6(7–4), 7–6(7–2), 6–4

Murray def Joker WB 13: 6–4, 7–5, 6–4

RAFA def Joker RG 20: 6–0, 6–2, 7–5

Midvedev def Joker USO 21: 6–4, 6–4, 6–4

Carl def Joker WB 24: 6–2, 6–2, 7–6(7–4)

 

[DSH]

That Djokovic has played a crap load of finals

Djokovic is not that good as the other two.

 

[Incognito]

On HC, which constitutes 70% of the tour, Djokovic is the best at their best.

Federer is the USO GOAT

 

[Biotic]

Djoko's base level, even when in average form, was good enough to regularly get him to the SF/F, in any era. He remained highly competitive at all 4 slams until he was 36, several years more than the other two. Played 12 more finals after Federer reached his last slam final and 6 more after last time Nadal exploited opportunities made possible by covid.

Meanwhile, Nadal made sure to avoid any slam he had no chance of winning in the first place, via withdrawal, or simply got rekt early on by a random no-namer. In total, he made the SF of a slam "only" 38 times, compared to Fred's 46 and Djoko's 51.

Naturally, Federer made loads of finals in an era where you couldn't lose a final to someone else even if you tried, so his numbers make sense. Also made 31 finals compared to Djoko's 37.

 

[GrassMasters]

It tells us Federer mugged it up bigly in 2009

 

[mavsman149]

It simply means he made more finals and had less bad early losses.

Also, counting losses to Alcaraz in slam finals as “bad losses” like this post is trying to illustrate is a bad look, especially at this stage of Novak’s career. Alcaraz is 22 with 5 slams, he’s going to be easily a top ten player ever.

 

[Antonio Puente]

On HC, which constitutes 70% of the tour, Djokovic is the best at their best.

Djoker has a losing finals record at one of the two hardcourt slams, including being straight-setted in the biggest match of his career by a non-Big 3 member, non-all-time great, non-anything.

 

[ND-13]

It looks like Djokovic likes to lose more than once to the same player affirming that it was not a one off bad day.

I hope he doesn’t lose to Medvedev a second time .

Clearly it proves one more thing we all know - the peaks of Fedal are better than the peak of Djokovic

In a final, Fedal always brought their best while Novak could that well in only 2018-23

 

[GoatNo1]

It tells that novak could not capitalise on oppurtunites like fedrer and rafa . If his resume also had only one loss to other players like fedrer and nadal he would have 30 slams .
But on the other hand it tells that he has played more finals than fedrer and rafa means he was more consistent (long term ) .

no, it tells that nole had very high base level that he could make he final even when he was long from his best! when he won his 24th slam he won 1/3 of all slams that he participate and he made the final at 1/2. rafa, at the other hand lost 4 years in a row to 100+ ranked players at W. and first 2 was in his so called "era". so nole who is long from his best are in final anyway and play with some hot player when fed and rafa who are not in their best form (or has super easy draw) lose earlier much more than nole did!

GS finals	no1e	fed	rafa
AO	10	7	6
RG	7	5	14
W	10	12	5
USO	10	7	5
total Fs	37	31	30
total SFs	51	46	38
total QF	62	58	47
total titles	24	20	22

best worst

 

[NoleFam]

It looks like Djokovic likes to lose more than once to the same player affirming that it was not a one off bad day.

I hope he doesn’t lose to Medvedev a second time .

Clearly it proves one more thing we all know - the peaks of Fedal are better than the peak of Djokovic

In a final, Fedal always brought their best while Novak could that well in only 2018-23

Fedal's peaks are allegedly better but fans like you have nothing to prove it with except nostalgia and eye test. Djokovic on the other hand has actual data that says otherwise.

 

[ND-13]

Fedal's peaks are allegedly higher but fans like you have nothing to prove it with except nostalgia and eye test. Djokovic on the other hand has actual data that says otherwise.

Seems like an emotional outpouring

All I stated in my posts are logical inferences based on factual data.

 

[NoleFam]

Seems like an emotional outpouring

All I stated in my posts are logical inferences based on factual data.

More like a rebuttal based on information instead of feelings like what you like to do.

There is nothing logical about it because you don't have any data to back up what you're saying.

 

[ND-13]

More like a rebuttal based on information instead of feelings like what you like to do.

There is nothing logical about it because you don't have any data to back up what you're saying.

Facts are what is in the OP. If you want to deny it , it is your choice

 

[NoleFam]

Facts are what is in the OP. If you want to deny it , it is your choice

We're talking about you saying that what's in the OP proves that Fedal have the better peaks when it doesn't, and you not having anything to back it up.

 

[GoatNo1]

2/4 slams = 50%

Also, 2-1 Nadal at one of those HC slams...

yes, 2010 and 2013 and it was the last time he won a set vs nole on HC, 0-9 and 0-19 in sets.

 

[Razer]

If your opponent is not an ATG and you have to bet on a winner then nobody beats more ruthlessly than Federer in his prime. Nadal was pretty deadly too vs non ATG players but Federer was ruthless, it took a really great performance to take him down.

This is also the reason why I always say that Murray born in 1981 wins 0 in Fed's prime years, because that is how it is. There shall not be any surprise wins like how they were for Wawrinka or Murray under Novak's watch, when it comes to Federer the door is just shut and you win 0. Del Potro and Safin played truly great to win those 2 slams because thats how high the standards are.

 

[Martin J]

Fedal having a superior point-ending weapon (the FH) is I believe the reason why they're less prone to upsets in the finals. Novak's forehand is a very good shot, but these two guys can change the complexity of a rally with a single shot, which rarely breaks, and usually gives them the upper hand in the match, while Djoko has to do a bit more and it increases the chances for the loss.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Djoker has a losing finals record at one of the two hardcourt slams,

Yes, and if he had lost early many times he'd have a positive record, meaningless. 4-500 is better than 3-0.

including being straight-setted in the biggest match of his career by a non-Big 3 member, non-all-time great, non-anything.

The biggest matches of his career were Olympics final 2024 and Roland Garros final 2016. Nonetheless, another irrelevant statistic, Nadal was straight-setted at every major. Means **** in the long run.

 

[Razer]

Fedal having a superior point-ending weapon (the FH) is I believe the reason why they're less prone to upsets in the finals. Novak's forehand is a very good shot, but these two guys can change the complexity of a rally with a single shot, which rarely breaks, and usually gives them the upper hand in the match, while Djoko has to do a bit more and it increases the chances for the loss.

Good point