Big 3 vs. Carlos: The Records

Will Carlos the Shepherd take these?

  • Total voters
    26
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
To stand the test of time in tennis and be considered with the greatest of the greats you must reach big 3 levels. Some want to put Carlos the Shepherd up there with the big 3 RIGHT NOW, and some say he will be one day. Well, let us keep track of it.

This will not include petty records like age related records. No one cares how old you were when you did it. Heck, Chang won a slam at 17. Nor are these even all records, just what the big 3 accomplished.

Big 3 Accomplishments:
Most slams: 24 (Djoker), 22 (Rafa), 20 (Fed)
Most weeks at Number 1: 428 (Djoker), 310 (Fed), 209 (Rafa)
Year end number one: 8 (Djoker), 5 (Fed/Rafa)
Most Points: 16950 (Djoker), 15903 (Fed), 15390 (Rafa)
Total titles: 103 (Fed), 98 (Djoker), 92 (Rafa)
Masters titles: 40 (Djoker), 36 (Rafa), 28 (Fed)
Tour Finals: 7 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most Australian Opens: 10 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most French Opens: 14 (Rafa), 3 (Djoker)
Most Wimbledon Championships: 8 (Fed), 7 (Djoker)
Most USO: 5 (Fed), 4 (Rafa/Djoker)
Longest match streak: 43 (Djoker), 41 (Fed), 32 (Rafa)
Longest slam match streak: 30 (Djoker), 27 (Fed)
Consecutive slam finals: 10 (Fed), 6 (Djoker), 5 (Rafa)
Consecutive slam wins at one slam: 5 (Rafa/Fed)
Reaching all 4 finals in the same year: 3 (Djoker/Fed)
Winning a slam without dropping a set: 4 (Rafa), 2 (Fed)
Total matches won: 1245 (Fed), 1084 (Djoker), 1066 (Rafa)
Slam matches won: 375 (Djoker), 369 (Fed), 314 (Rafa)
NCYGS: 1 (Djoker)
Most consecutive weeks at number 1: 237 (Fed)

*These do not even include all of their records, just the big ones. I get it, you will say he is young it is not fair, well buckaroos, you want to be talked about with the big 3, then this is what you have to EARN.


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oh... and their heights: 188cm (Djoker), 185cm (Fed/Rafa)
 
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Big3 was fighting each other too much, with current field Alcaraz can easily beat most of the records. Needs to stay free of injuries, and of course depends on Sinner or if somone new arrives.
 
Jonas78 said:
Big3 was fighting each other too much, with current field Alcaraz can easily beat most of the records. Needs to stay free of injuries, and of course depends on Sinner or if somone new arrives.
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Well, when he reaches one of these let me know, and we can add it.
 
There's at least 4 or 5 I would say an emphatic no to but I won't rule out some because he's just 21 and should have a lot of tennis in him; but we can't say whether he can win the most Slams or most Masters until probably 7 or 8 years from now when he's further along in his career. A lot can change between now and then.
 
NoleFam said:
There's at least 4 or 5 I would say an emphatic no to but I won't rule out some because he's just 21 and should have a lot of tennis in him; but we can't say whether he can win the most Slams or most Masters until probably 7 or 8 years from now when he's further along in his career. A lot can change between now and then.
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MAny say it will be easy for him.
 
Berrettini_Fan said:
Records he definitely won't break: 14 French Opens and 10 Australian Opens

Record he has an outside shot at: 8 Wimbledons
Click to expand...
Big 3 Accomplishments:
Most slams: 24 (Djoker), 22 (Rafa), 20 (Fed)
Most weeks at Number 1: 428 (Djoker), 310 (Fed), 209 (Rafa)
Year end number one: 8 (Djoker), 5 (Fed/Rafa)
Total titles: 103 (Fed), 98 (Djoker), 92 (Rafa)
Masters titles: 40 (Djoker), 36 (Rafa), 28 (Fed)
Tour Finals: 7 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most Australian Opens: 10 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most French Opens: 14 (Rafa), 3 (Djoker)
Most Wimbledon Championships: 8 (Fed), 7 (Djoker)
Most USO: 5 (Fed), 4 (Rafa/Djoker)
Longest match streak: 43 (Djoker), 41 (Fed), 32 (Rafa)
Longest slam match streak: 30 (Djoker), 27 (Fed)
Consecutive slam finals: 10 (Fed), 6 (Djoker), 5 (Rafa)
Consecutive slam wins at one slam: 5 (Rafa/Fed)
Reaching all 4 finals in the same year: 3 (Djoker/Fed)
Winning a slam without dropping a set: 4 (Rafa), 2 (Fed)
Total matches won: 1245 (Fed), 1084 (Djoker), 1066 (Rafa)
Slam matches won: 375 (Djoker), 369 (Fed), 314 (Rafa)

The ones that are not crossed out are the only ones I think he has a chance at.
 
Lleytonstation said:
MAny say it will be easy for him.
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Nothing on this list is easy though. Maybe winning a Slam without dropping a set could be considered the easiest since it's just 1 Slam. I would have replaced that with the career Slam which I think is more important career wise.
 
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NoleFam said:
Nothing on this list is easy though. Maybe winning a Slam without dropping a set could be considered the easiest since it's just 1 Slam. I would have replaced that with the career Slam which I think is more important career wise.
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Think it shows utter dominance at one tourney, but I will add your NCYGS.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Big 3 Accomplishments:
Most slams: 24 (Djoker), 22 (Rafa), 20 (Fed)
Most weeks at Number 1: 428 (Djoker), 310 (Fed), 209 (Rafa)
Year end number one: 8 (Djoker), 5 (Fed/Rafa)
Total titles: 103 (Fed), 98 (Djoker), 92 (Rafa)
Masters titles: 40 (Djoker), 36 (Rafa), 28 (Fed)
Tour Finals: 7 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most Australian Opens: 10 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most French Opens: 14 (Rafa), 3 (Djoker)
Most Wimbledon Championships: 8 (Fed), 7 (Djoker)
Most USO: 5 (Fed), 4 (Rafa/Djoker)
Longest match streak: 43 (Djoker), 41 (Fed), 32 (Rafa)
Longest slam match streak: 30 (Djoker), 27 (Fed)
Consecutive slam finals: 10 (Fed), 6 (Djoker), 5 (Rafa)
Consecutive slam wins at one slam: 5 (Rafa/Fed)
Reaching all 4 finals in the same year: 3 (Djoker/Fed)
Winning a slam without dropping a set: 4 (Rafa), 2 (Fed)
Total matches won: 1245 (Fed), 1084 (Djoker), 1066 (Rafa)
Slam matches won: 375 (Djoker), 369 (Fed), 314 (Rafa)

The ones that are not crossed out are the only ones I think he has a chance at.
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I think Carlos can win a slam without dropping a set. He improving his consistency.
 
NoleFam said:
NCYGs, 3 career Slams, winning 3 Slams in a row 4 different times, etc. Djokovic has enough and we can leave them off the list. :p
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I didn't add them simply because I didn't need a Djoker love post ha. But essentially that is what it is.

Those saying all he needs is the slam record has no clue how dominate the big 3 were all the time everywhere.
 
Lleytonstation said:
I didn't add them simply because I didn't need a Djoker love post ha. But essentially that is what it is.

Those saying all he needs is the slam record has no clue how dominate the big 3 were all the time everywhere.
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Lol, touche.

He needs more than that. Nadal has 2 more Slams than Federer and most tennis analysts still rank Federer above him.
 
NoleFam said:
He needs more than that. Nadal has 2 more Slams than Federer and most tennis analysts still rank Federer above him.
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If he really doesn't get challenged than yeah, but as much as slams was a big thing, to me it never has been the be all.

If he has 26 slams but doesn't sniff the rest of those, he can not be considered big 3 levels all around. As much as we say those do not matter, they do. PLus I always thought they go hand in hand, meaning if you hit 26 slams you will likely have to win a bunch of masters and be number one for a long time.
 
Lleytonstation said:
If he really doesn't get challenged than yeah, but as much as slams was a big thing, to me it never has been the be all.

If he has 26 slams but doesn't sniff the rest of those, he can not be considered big 3 levels all around. As much as we say those do not matter, they do. PLus I always thought they go hand in hand, meaning if you hit 26 slams you will likely have to win a bunch of masters and be number one for a long time.
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I mean, the bar is already set very high anyway. Even with weak competition, 25 Slams is going to be very, very tough to reach.

Just having the Slam record won't make him the greatest but that's a long, long away anyway. He has to be a dominant, versatile champion. If/when he gets to 14 then we can start talking about him reaching 20 and beyond.
 
He is capable of sweeping everything if he doesn't get competition and goes injury free.
And that is impossible to predict.
 
Let's see.
Carlos need to do exceptionally well to even go anywhere near 20 slams. But crossing 24. Almost impossible.

Among individual slams.
He is strong at Wimbledon. So has a long shot at winning 9 titles.
US Open the target is much lower. He can win 6 and be all time leader.

AO and FO, no chance of crossing 10 and 14 respectively.

Other records where he can meet
Surface slam in a year matching Rafa and Novak.
No. Of slam finals won from the beginning . At 4, need to cross 7.
3 slams a year and consecutive 3 slams. Has been done so many times by big 3. He can only meet.

regarding no. 1 record, he can't break weeks. Year end also doubtful. Prime reason he is not consistent enough.This year is prime example. He is still no. 2 in race despite winning 2 slams and 1 masters.
 
Berrettini_Fan said:
You didn't list each of their heights.
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Alcaraz better get taller, or none of his accomplishments will be taken seriously. And I don't care if he all of the sudden serves 150 mph with pinpoint accuracy en route to 35 slam titles and 600 weeks at #1. If he remains at 6 foot flat or shorter, then he won't even be considered a good player, let alone great.

That dude needs to work on his height during the offseason. I'd recommend that he takes some certified snake oil while hanging from a chin up bar for an hour a day. He should make that part of his workout regimen.
 
roysid said:
Let's see.
Carlos need to do exceptionally well to even go anywhere near 20 slams. But crossing 24. Almost impossible.

Among individual slams.
He is strong at Wimbledon. So has a long shot at winning 9 titles.
US Open the target is much lower. He can win 6 and be all time leader.

AO and FO, no chance of crossing 10 and 14 respectively.

Other records where he can meet
Surface slam in a year matching Rafa and Novak.
No. Of slam finals won from the beginning . At 4, need to cross 7.
3 slams a year and consecutive 3 slams. Has been done so many times by big 3. He can only meet.

regarding no. 1 record, he can't break weeks. Year end also doubtful. Prime reason he is not consistent enough.This year is prime example. He is still no. 2 in race despite winning 2 slams and 1 masters.
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Crossing 24 is far from impossible.

Djokovic was almost 24y when he won his 2nd slam. He would likely have 2 more if it wasnt for Covid restrictions and that stupid incident at USO. And he was stopped many times by the rest of Big3(4).

Alcaraz just turned 21 and has 4 slams, and the field is weaker than the field Djokovic was playing most of the time.

Times are changing. I wouldnt be surprised if Alcaraz has the slam number of greats like Edberg and Becker at age 22.
 
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Pheasant said:
Alcaraz better get taller, or none of his accomplishments will be taken seriously. And I don't care if he all of the sudden serves 150 mph with pinpoint accuracy en route to 35 slam titles and 600 weeks at #1. If he remains at 6 foot flat or shorter, then he won't even be considered a good player, let alone great.

That dude needs to work on his height during the offseason. I'd recommend that he takes some certified snake oil while hanging from a chin up bar for an hour a day. He should make that part of his workout regimen.
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200cm
 
NoleFam said:
Nothing on this list is easy though. Maybe winning a Slam without dropping a set could be considered the easiest since it's just 1 Slam. I would have replaced that with the career Slam which I think is more important career wise.
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The CGS doesn't have to replace anything else on the list, but it definitely should be added. Only eight men have completed it, and after Laver no one did it until Agassi in 1999. I think Alcaraz probably will complete it, since he needs only the AO, but he hasn't done it yet. And there have been plenty of greats in the past who had an unusual record of failure/bad luck at one particular slam.
 
JMR said:
The CGS doesn't have to replace anything else on the list, but it definitely should be added. Only eight men have completed it, and after Laver no one did it until Agassi in 1999. I think Alcaraz probably will complete it, since he needs only the AO, but he hasn't done it yet. And there have been plenty of greats in the past who had an unusual record of failure/bad luck at one particular slam.
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I said earlier this year that I think that will be his toughest Slam so you may be right. It just seems like he struggles on the courts there in Australia. Every champion had 1 Slam they really struggled with like you said, no matter how great they were.
 
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