Big 3 vs. Carlos: The Records

Will Carlos the Shepherd take these?

  • Total voters
    26
Novak did a Pete Sampras career after age 30.

And a guy with motivation as much as Carlos with the start he has won’t even get to 14 ??

The moment he touches Borg and Pete, he is in the big table
 
ND-13 said:
Novak did a Pete Sampras career after age 30.

And a guy with motivation as much as Carlos with the start he has won’t even get to 14 ??

The moment he touches Borg and Pete, he is in the big table
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Had a late start. Him starting his peak early does not mean it will go longer.
 
Alcaraz's best shot at longevity is to hire Djoker as his coach. That might cost him 2 million a year + 10% of his prize money. But it'd be worth it. However, Djoker might play until he's 50. So there's that.

I'm worried that Alcaraz's violent playing(incredible ball-bashing and racing on the court and turning on a dime) will lead to some bad arm and leg injuries by the time he's 26-27 years old. I really home that I'm wrong about this. We need Carlos around for a really long time.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Had a late start. Him starting his peak early does not mean it will go longer.
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It means he has many more chances.

He has 64 attempts if he plays until 37. He needs 20/64 . Seems very doable to me.

If he gets CYGS, then he doesn’t even need all that record . That alone places him alongside Laver
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
It doesn’t mean it will be the same again. One could come in 2-3 years.

All we know is there is too many variables to predict anything at moment.
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Sure, that and injuries can stop him of course. But for some strange reason we havent seen an ATG between Djokovic and Alcaraz (and maybe Sinner). Ill be surprised id they suddenly start to pop up. More likely Alcaraz will be feasting on Tsitis/Meddy/Zverev etc for many years imo.
 
ND-13 said:
It means he has many more chances.

He has 64 attempts if he plays until 37. He needs 20/64 . Seems very doable to me.

If he gets CYGS, then he doesn’t even need all that record . That alone places him alongside Laver
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A CYGS without the rest will just prove he has weak competition.

He needs minimum 25 slams to even be considered the farm animal. Needs 20 to be with the big 3.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Well, I am not high on anyone coming up and being Carlos level good, but all you need is a couple of Wawa, Murray, and the likes to derail him.

There could be 3-4 of them age 15-17 right now we just don't know about.

There could also be a couple of Sinner types that hit late like Djoker or Fed.
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He can afford to throw bones to few of them along the way
 
Lleytonstation said:
A CYGS without the rest will just prove he has weak competition.

He needs minimum 25 slams to even be considered the farm animal. Needs 20 to be with the big 3.
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If Fed had 18, he would still be big 3. So the number 20 is something you have constructed in your mind

We will evaluate the whole body of work that Carlos has put in and the results from it. He has a CYGS alongside double digit majors, he is part of the big table
 
ND-13 said:
If Fed had 18, he would still be big 3. So the number 20 is something you have constructed in your mind

We will evaluate the whole body of work that Carlos has put in and the results from it. He has a CYGS alongside double digit majors, he is part of the big table
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Nah, he needs 20 especially if he disregards masters and weeks at number one. Those matter.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Wonder if competition played a role in that. ;)
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Im not sure about why (some say he had some fitness issues, gluten etc), but its not like you get it back in the other end, if you know what i mean. Alcaraz winning early doesnt mean he wont be able to win in his late thirties. Rafa surprised many with showing great longevity although he also peaked early.
 
Jonas78 said:
Im not sure about why (some say he had some fitness issues, gluten etc), but its not like you get it back in the other end, if you know what i mean. Alcaraz winning early doesnt mean he wont be able to win in his late thirties. Rafa surprised many with showing great longevity although he also peaked early.
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Only ever been one Rafa, but maybe there will only be one Carlos.

It is always If's and maybe's right now. Until he hits double digits I think this is all ludicrous.
 
ND-13 said:
Why because 20 is a good round number ?
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The lowest slam winner of the big 3 is twenty. But Fed also has a lot records and accomplishment to go with it, some even better than Rafa and Djoker.

He will need more than just slams especially if he isn't hitting 20.

Now, could he be talked as one of the greats, sure.
 
Lleytonstation said:
If so, than he really will never be up there wit the big 3. Med is the best of those and wasn't even challenging the big 3 when they were post peak except one Djoker meltdown.
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I agree, thats why i think Alcaraz has a really good chance at breaking records. All Big3 are considered at least top5 players in history, and they constantly had to fight each other. Except Sinner, look at the field Carlos is playing. He could have the career of players like Edberg & Becker at age 22.
 
Lleytonstation said:
To stand the test of time in tennis and be considered with the greatest of the greats you must reach big 3 levels. Some want to put Carlos the Shepherd up there with the big 3 RIGHT NOW, and some say he will be one day. Well, let us keep track of it.

This will not include petty records like age related records. No one cares how old you were when you did it. Heck, Chang won a slam at 17. Nor are these even all records, just what the big 3 accomplished.

Big 3 Accomplishments:
Most slams: 24 (Djoker), 22 (Rafa), 20 (Fed)
Most weeks at Number 1: 428 (Djoker), 310 (Fed), 209 (Rafa)
Year end number one: 8 (Djoker), 5 (Fed/Rafa)
Total titles: 103 (Fed), 98 (Djoker), 92 (Rafa)
Masters titles: 40 (Djoker), 36 (Rafa), 28 (Fed)
Tour Finals: 7 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most Australian Opens: 10 (Djoker), 6 (Fed)
Most French Opens: 14 (Rafa), 3 (Djoker)
Most Wimbledon Championships: 8 (Fed), 7 (Djoker)
Most USO: 5 (Fed), 4 (Rafa/Djoker)
Longest match streak: 43 (Djoker), 41 (Fed), 32 (Rafa)
Longest slam match streak: 30 (Djoker), 27 (Fed)
Consecutive slam finals: 10 (Fed), 6 (Djoker), 5 (Rafa)
Consecutive slam wins at one slam: 5 (Rafa/Fed)
Reaching all 4 finals in the same year: 3 (Djoker/Fed)
Winning a slam without dropping a set: 4 (Rafa), 2 (Fed)
Total matches won: 1245 (Fed), 1084 (Djoker), 1066 (Rafa)
Slam matches won: 375 (Djoker), 369 (Fed), 314 (Rafa)
NCYGS: 1 (Djoker)
Most consecutive weeks at number 1: 237 (Fed)
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Ones I think he has the best shot at:
  • Most Slams
  • YE #1
  • Total Titles
  • Masters (already has 5)
  • Wimbledon GS Titles
  • USO
  • Longest match and slam streak
  • Consecutive Finals
  • Total and Slam matches won
Of all that, I think the '"easiest" would be grabbing USO GS Titles, but I honestly think he can rule Wimby too.
 
Jonas78 said:
I agree, thats why i think Alcaraz has a really good chance at breaking records. All Big3 are considered at least top5 players in history, and they constantly had to fight each other. Except Sinner, look at the field Carlos is playing. He could have the career of players like Edberg & Becker at age 22.
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He could, I just do not think tennis will be that bad. I mean you are essentially saying 20-30 years with like one (Carlos), maybe 2 (sinner) of ATG's being born.
 
ChaelAZ said:
Ones I think he has the best shot at:
  • Most Slams
  • YE #1
  • Total Titles
  • Masters (already has 5)
  • Wimbledon GS Titles
  • USO
  • Longest match and slam streak
  • Consecutive Finals
  • Total and Slam matches won
Of all that, I think the '"easiest" would be grabbing USO GS Titles, but I honestly think he can rule Wimby too.
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Total titles is a no way IMO. Too many injuries too young and will focus on the big titles as that is the new way. Same with masters. WC and USO I agree. Match streak not with his inconsistent and margin of play. Zero chance on total matches won as he will not play as many. Consecutive finals I do not see either unless Sinner is really trash.
 
Lleytonstation said:
The lowest slam winner of the big 3 is twenty. But Fed also has a lot records and accomplishment to go with it, some even better than Rafa and Djoker.

He will need more than just slams especially if he isn't hitting 20.

Now, could he be talked as one of the greats, sure.
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Carlos will also have his own records. He already has a few and the youngest to have the surface slam record is already setting the bar high.

Every generation ATG learns from those prior . Pete learnt from those before him. Fed from Pete and Nadlovic from Fed. We didn’t have any ATG for last 16 years and now we don’t see anyone following in the near term .

And here is Carlos who is humble and hungry. Deadly combination.

He will chart his path, taking appropriate breaks , ensuring top medical assistance where required , fitness , training and food habits better than ever before with all the knowledge and help from JCF.

Records are almost always broken . Mankind is setup that way.
 
The Shepherd has to peak higher than Wawrinka apart from grass first. I am still waiting for him to match the performances of 2015 Stan at RG or 2013-14 Stan at the AO. Let's see if he can bring that level.
 
Jonas78 said:
I might be a little delusional, but ive been waiting for a new ATG for 16 years, so i must be forgiven lol :D
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haha we all have been. But that is my point, we are reaching and what the new big 3 now. He might end up being so, I think we should all hope for that, but I am not giving it to him until he proves it.

That said, unlike all the others we craved for as potential ATG's, he has lived up to it so far.

I just have to be the man who stays behind, I hope you enjoy your journey and think of me if Carlos does what you guys say. I will look back with a smile as I watch old big 3 highlights.
 
Lleytonstation said:
haha we all have been. But that is my point, we are reaching and what the new big 3 now. He might end up being so, I think we should all hope for that, but I am not giving it to him until he proves it.

That said, unlike all the others we craved for as potential ATG's, he has lived up to it so far.

I just have to be the man who stays behind, I hope you enjoy your journey and think of me if Carlos does what you guys say. I will look back with a smile as I watch old big 3 highlights.
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I am sure we will convert you to the good side soon.
 
Lleytonstation said:
He could, I just do not think tennis will be that bad. I mean you are essentially saying 20-30 years with like one (Carlos), maybe 2 (sinner) of ATG's being born.
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Still, even if someone new arrives, its unlikely it will be a Big3 scenario i.e. 3 of the 5 best players in history born within 6 years. Big3 was actually unlucky in that way.
 
Jonas78 said:
Still, even if someone new arrives, its unlikely it will be a Big3 scenario i.e. 3 of the 5 best players in history born within 6 years. Big3 was actually unlucky in that way.
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Problem is I think that is what made them so great. Being pushed day in and year in for 2 decades. There was never a chance to have a slump. There is a reason runners run faster when someone is chasing them.
 
StefanV said:
The Shepherd has to peak higher than Wawrinka apart from grass first. I am still waiting for him to match the performances of 2015 Stan at RG or 2013-14 Stan at the AO. Let's see if he can bring that level.
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The Shepherd's greatest victory was beating a 37 year old Djoker who came off surgery less than a month ago. Meanwhile the big 3 had to deal with prime grass/HC Fed and Djoker, and prime clay Rafa.
 
10 big titles in a season = Djokovic

This one will be a monstrous one for anyone to break, good luck to anyone who thinks they can win 11 big titles in a single season. You would need to be as close to perfect as possible. One of the GOAT records for Djokovic.
 
Hitman said:
10 big titles in a season = Djokovic

This one will be a monstrous one for anyone to break, good luck to anyone who thinks they can win 11 big titles in a single season. You would need to be as close to perfect as possible. One of the GOAT records for Djokovic.
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Steffi Graf won all 4 majors, Olympic Gold and 6 other titles in 1988 with 72-3 record.
 
ND-13 said:
Steffi Graf won all 4 majors, Olympic Gold and 6 other titles in 1988 with 72-3 record.
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LOL - Isn't this thread about the Big 3 records for Alcaraz to target?

And we are talking ATP records here, but of course you already know this.

Otherwise Federer was never GOAT when he won W 2009, because he never even caught Graf's 22 slams.
 
Hitman said:
LOL - Isn't this thread about the Big 3 records for Alcaraz to target?

And we are talking ATP records here, but of course you already know this.

Otherwise Federer was never GOAT when he won W 2009, because he never even caught Graf's 22 slams.
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I don’t believe there is GOAT. The only players closest to GOAT I have seen are Martina and Graf. Rest all have good on specific days and months, not all the time
 
I don’t think that Alcaraz will have the longevity to break any of the cumulative records. The most breakable longevity record is 5 US Opens.

He has some records for age though. Youngest to do the channel slam and career surface slam. He has a chance to do the calendar surface slam too, which would add to his other age records.
 
Hitman said:
10 big titles in a season = Djokovic

This one will be a monstrous one for anyone to break, good luck to anyone who thinks they can win 11 big titles in a single season. You would need to be as close to perfect as possible. One of the GOAT records for Djokovic.
Click to expand...
I might need to look at record for points. I think Djoker has it by a large margin.
 
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