Big changes coming to coaching certification

#54
Another stupid idea from the USTA. Most of the clubs where I am from do not care if you are a certified pro or not. They are looking for people who have lessons and will bring them to a club and take 60 to 80% of the lesson fee for providing the court. Most of these clubs are looking for one thing, make the most profit on the back of the instructor. As usual the USTA is doing another stupid thing. Will they refuse to sanction all the money making tournys they run at these clubs that don`t hire certified pros? I don`t think so. Most of these clubs only care that you have insurance and bring lessons with you. Are they in some way going to protect these pros in some way like guaranteeing minimum salaries or helping with job protection? It seems like they are really interested in the financial gain for themselves and not actually helping the profession becoming more profesional
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
#59
How many young adults first getting into the profession will slave under some fat old coach that can't even play for 1500 hours?
You can beat them 6-0 6-0, have much better strokes, yet gotta listen to them because they took a class, LOL.

Pro's who learn from a book cannot improvise because they dont understand the stroke and its variations.
 
#60
The politics of USTA, PTA, and PTR are convoluted. I am a PTR and PTA member and did the USTA High Performance Certification years ago. Tennis teaching is an art and tennis teachers are pig headed artists. By that I mean I've never seen two guys teach a stroke the same way. Certifications are great and more education options are great. But it comes down to the individual. A certification won't make you a good teacher. Just read these boards and you will see that there is absolutely no agreement. You see passionate people advocate opposite positions.
What all these programs lack is empirical basis. I'd like to see teachers defend their opinions by close analysis of actual play and players. Not just a you tube video--but real analysis. Never gonna happen and that's ok.
 
#61
...
What all these programs lack is empirical basis. I'd like to see teachers defend their opinions by close analysis of actual play and players. Not just a you tube video--but real analysis. Never gonna happen and that's ok.
Well, something should happen. In a small tennis country (my home) not even the top coaches can aggree on what is a heavy hit and how it is executed. If such knowledge is missing, and the top players on the coaching market disaggree, where this sport is headed to?

Not maybe fully appropriate to the topic, but defenately something to consider.


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On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
 
#62
Pete,
Yep. But there is a danger in "agreement." It can lead to a tyranny of orthodoxy... So the decentralized nature of info has an upside. The problem for the individual is to decide what he thinks is "true."
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#63
The politics of USTA, PTA, and PTR are convoluted. I am a PTR and PTA member and did the USTA High Performance Certification years ago. Tennis teaching is an art and tennis teachers are pig headed artists. By that I mean I've never seen two guys teach a stroke the same way. Certifications are great and more education options are great. But it comes down to the individual. A certification won't make you a good teacher. Just read these boards and you will see that there is absolutely no agreement. You see passionate people advocate opposite positions.
What all these programs lack is empirical basis. I'd like to see teachers defend their opinions by close analysis of actual play and players. Not just a you tube video--but real analysis. Never gonna happen and that's ok.
I didn't expect you to comment given your political connections with tennis royalty!

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#64
Requirements for useless certifications and irrelevant training and credentials are a tried and true way of eliminating competition. States have actual laws imposing such requirements on the most mundane occupations, occupations which just happen to have powerful lobbies.

I would not be surprised to see the tennis bodies lobbying states to require certification before one can hold themselves out as a coach. After all, the USTA knows what is best and is only trying to protect the public.
 
#65
Must be a very simple job then? You simply can't get 20 years of experience in school in a career that is complex. Do you think doctors out of med schools know more than 20 year doctors? Do you think lawyers out of law schools know more than 20 year lawyers? Do you think bankers out of biz schools know more than 20 year bankers?

The premise is absurd unless you're taking about a fast food career. That is why there are entry level jobs.
In his defence, people with real world experience get very good at certain areas within that industry that they work in, but can be out of touch with the industry as a whole. That's why certain professions require its members to always remain up to date with the times.

Knowledge that goes unused is not retained and will stagnate, and all industries regularly adopt new standards and knowledge, so I can see why someone could make an argument that a fresh graduate may be more knowledgeable in certain areas than an industry veteran is.

With tennis coaching, it might be a bit different, because someone going through a coaching programme is not going in with zero knowledge on how to play tennis, whereas law students start their degree knowing relatively little. A better analogy would be someone getting a teaching qualification like the PGCE, where proficiency in the discipline that the future teacher wants to teach is not the part being taught (ideally); it is rather the ability to teach, create courses, and manage classrooms.

Same thing with tennis coaching I'm guessing--the point isn't to learn how to play tennis but rather how to teach other people how to play tennis. At a superficial level, these changes look like an attempt to raise the average standard of tennis coaches across the country, whereas currently any Tom Dick and Harry with a basket of flat tennis balls and a farmer's tan can call himself a coach and get away with it. It certainly is the case where I live.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
#66
Do you think you would still have been invited to speak at conferences without those certifications?

The politics of USTA, PTA, and PTR are convoluted. I am a PTR and PTA member and did the USTA High Performance Certification years ago. Tennis teaching is an art and tennis teachers are pig headed artists. By that I mean I've never seen two guys teach a stroke the same way. Certifications are great and more education options are great. But it comes down to the individual. A certification won't make you a good teacher. Just read these boards and you will see that there is absolutely no agreement. You see passionate people advocate opposite positions.
What all these programs lack is empirical basis. I'd like to see teachers defend their opinions by close analysis of actual play and players. Not just a you tube video--but real analysis. Never gonna happen and that's ok.
 
#67
Excellence is recognized with or without a certificate.


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On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
 
#68
Excellence is recognized with or without a certificate.


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On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
If you see the good players at your club stopping to watch a coach and student, then the coach may be excellent, regardless of certifications.
 
#71
Henin,
No. It's a requirement. But the also create good will and collaboration. There are great people in all 3 organizations. Whether the certifications had much of an impact on my work is questionable however...
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
#72
Henin,
No. It's a requirement. But the also create good will and collaboration. There are great people in all 3 organizations. Whether the certifications had much of an impact on my work is questionable however...
Gotcha. I can see there are other benefits and possibly networking opportunities.

But good will in tennis??? I'm shocked. :D
 
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#73
whereas currently any Tom Dick and Harry with a basket of flat tennis balls and a farmer's tan can call himself a coach and get away with it. It certainly is the case where I live.
Do you really want someone to have the authority to tell them they can't call themselves a tennis coach?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#75
Do you think you would still have been invited to speak at conferences without those certifications?
Federer might be invited without a certificate, but even then people would look askance if he taught in the US for 30 years and deliberately did not get certified and still expected to be invited

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#76
How much certification do you want your coach to have to be able to tell you, "hit it out in front" "bend your knees" "extend through the contact point" "turn your shoulders more" and so on and so forth and on and on and on and.....
 
#77
How much certification do you want your coach to have to be able to tell you, "hit it out in front" "bend your knees" "extend through the contact point" "turn your shoulders more" and so on and so forth and on and on and on and.....
I want a coach that’s better than me. That remove LP but one of them.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#78
Yeah there is that. Lol. It's not like a medical degree. Lmao
It is also not an essential or critical public or private service like building a bridge or a home where a number of laws regarding safety, fairness, environment etc. needs to be satisfied.

Nobody died for not having an ATP forehand.
 
#79
It is also not an essential or critical public or private service like building a bridge or a home where a number of laws regarding safety, fairness, environment etc. needs to be satisfied.

Nobody died for not having an ATP forehand.
Yet lot has gone to dispair and driven the hopper feeder - lobster-guy go crazy.


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On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
 
#82
...currently any Tom Dick and Harry with a basket of flat tennis balls and a farmer's tan can call himself a coach and get away with it. It certainly is the case where I live.

Similar in what I was saying in fitness training. Anymore, if you sell a useless health product you can call yourself a trainer. The worst is those beach body people, where once you have done the workout you can sell their programs and call yourself a coach.

I am all for certifications and education, but I still think there needs to be sensible leveling, which I believe there already is. If you want to step up master level certs with education/apprenticeship hours that makes sense, but I know a lot of us working with high school kids ain't gonna go that far and just need some basic CPR/safety certs.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#84
Similar in what I was saying in fitness training. Anymore, if you sell a useless health product you can call yourself a trainer. The worst is those beach body people, where once you have done the workout you can sell their programs and call yourself a coach.

I am all for certifications and education, but I still think there needs to be sensible leveling, which I believe there already is. If you want to step up master level certs with education/apprenticeship hours that makes sense, but I know a lot of us working with high school kids ain't gonna go that far and just need some basic CPR/safety certs.
Yeah there are already so many levels. Why make a minimum certification possible only after 1500 hours?

If it comes to that, MTM is a better alternative:

https://www.mtmca.com/Levels.html
 
#85
It is also not an essential or critical public or private service like building a bridge or a home where a number of laws regarding safety, fairness, environment etc. needs to be satisfied.

Nobody died for not having an ATP forehand.
But I'm dying inside slowly every time I see a video on here... lol. We need tennis forum video certificate.
 
#86
Why make a minimum certification possible only after 1500 hours?
Do you seriously think that has anything to do with their concern about the competency of new coaches? This is no different than the cosmetologist lobby arguing that manicurists need a certification and license. Or that you need a license to do women's hair in your house. It's about limiting competition. Anyone can see that.
 
#87
Suresh,
Open to anyone basically. As much value to players as coaches... but that's for the future. A little busy now. And btw about 20 hours max.
 
#88
Do you seriously think that has anything to do with their concern about the competency of new coaches? This is no different than the cosmetologist lobby arguing that manicurists need a certification and license. Or that you need a license to do women's hair in your house. It's about limiting competition. Anyone can see that.
At 1499 hours they are not qualified. No way.

At 1500 hours its golden. Atp fh all day every day. They tell you the secret at 1500 hours. The day of the 1500th hour. At the stroke of midnight.
 
#90
Yeah there are already so many levels. Why make a minimum certification possible only after 1500 hours?

If it comes to that, MTM is a better alternative:

https://www.mtmca.com/Levels.html
There are some benefits to the consumer with certification. For example, suppose I want to learn the ATP forehand as described in the Rick Macci video.

Even if I go to a USPTA Level I coach, he may not know how to teach it. But if the USPTA makes it a mandatory part of their curriculum then I know that he is at least trained in it.

 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#92
Do you seriously think that has anything to do with their concern about the competency of new coaches? This is no different than the cosmetologist lobby arguing that manicurists need a certification and license. Or that you need a license to do women's hair in your house. It's about limiting competition. Anyone can see that.
They do need a license and it is important. Cosmetologists can cause epidemics if their equipment is not properly sterilized. Cutting nails and pedicure may seem trivial to you, but a small bleeding from a bad nail cut in a severely diabetic patient can have serious consequences.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#93
This is USTA's justification about its right to set coaching standards:


The United States Tennis Association (“USTA”) is the National Governing Body (“NGB”) for the sport of tennis in the United States, as appointed by the United States Olympic Committee (“USOC”). As such, the USTA is responsible for training players, organizing and staging competition, and promoting the growth of the sport of tennis within the United States. The USTA operates under authority of the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (“Ted Stevens Act”), now codified at 36 U.S.C. §§ 220501 et seq. Pursuant to the Act, the USTA, as the NGB, has been granted the authority by the United States Congress to establish national goals for the sport of tennis and encourage the attainment of those goals, including through supporting the highest quality tennis player training within the United States.


Pursuant to that authority, the USTA has set an objective to increase both the quantity and quality of tennis coaching professionals throughout the United States. USTA has determined that, in order to meet and maintain that goal, the U.S. tennis industry needs career-driven and well-rounded coaching professionals committed to the sport. Tennis employers in the U.S. are seeking coaching professionals with a greater variety of on-court and off-court skills/qualifications to help grow the game and their business. In its long history, the USTA has never certified tennis coaches, nor has it had significant input on the coaching certification criteria or process utilized by organizations offering tennis professional coaching certifications to the public within the United States.

While there are many positive aspects to the current certification process in the United States, more can and should be done by USTA to incentivize ongoing improvement in the quality of tennis coaching professionals now within and newly entering the industry. Of significance to USTA is the fact that other national tennis federations (including in the Grand Slam countries), as well as other American sports entities such as the Pro Golfers Association (PGA), have substantially greater requirements for coaching certification than does the U.S. tennis industry.

https://www.usta.com/en/home/about-usta/who-we-are/national/usta-coaching-accreditation-program.html
 
#96
Roger Roger,
Ha. Many many hours of bad information in store for your certification clients.
The beauty of my system is I only certify you watched the video properly . Which certifies someone to post on tips and instruction forum like this one. So I'm making the armchair coaches here officially sanctioned internet tennis coaches. I have a nice gold embossed pdf certificate.
 
#97
This is a case of a bunch of administrators with delusions of grandeur saying they have the right to certify. But they should also have very high goals and penalties. Their top playing graduates MUST be ranked No. 1-5 in the pros within 3 years of graduation. If they don't make it, then 'Off with their heads.' I am referring to the USTA hierarchy and executives, since they now have the Congress given knowledge/right to impose teaching systems.

Whether you can say there's any intelligence in Congress is still under debate.

I suspect that the law does not grant them a Monopoly and they will be sued. They will grandfather in anyone who teaches/qualified under old system for a living right now. Why? Lawsuits? I can't say that HS/Colleges teach the ATP/WTA methods. I can also see them grabbing credit for someone's work who was grandfathered in [and getting sued for it.] All in all, the USTA org is a bunch of idiots who lack the skills to teach the game correctly. You can see their results daily under 'tennis results.' I don't see USTA trained pros there right now. It won't change with a new regime.
 
#98
Is the USTA even qualified to accredit or certify any coach? Shouldn’t they earn some credibility first before telling other coaches what to do?

It looks like an attempt to bask in the glory of other people’s hard work and success whom they had nothing to do with other than to coerce them to emblazon a USTA insignia onto their coaching certifications. There are a lot of successful coaches and players who have tremendous pride in their own work and who see USTA involvement in player development as the kiss of death. It reminds me of a stockbroker who was always wrong about where to put your money, so the stockbroker became useful in the sense that you would succeed by doing the exact opposite of what he was telling you to do. He would never get it right.

Instead of getting in the way of those who know what they are doing and who were wise enough to distance themselves from USTA coaches, shouldn’t they focus solely on making sure that all their tournaments are run fairly, competently, and professionally?
 
#99
Federer might be invited without a certificate, but even then people would look askance if he taught in the US for 30 years and deliberately did not get certified and still expected to be invited

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I wouldn’t have anything to do with a coaching association that refused to invite Federer thirty, forty, or even fifty years from now. Would you?
 
Certification, I think is not all bad. From customers point of view it may be valuable information on what to expect from the level of coaching you get.

Aknowledgement would in the best case scenario cut off lot of trial and error.

I’d rather have USTA (in comparision to USGA) than professional players or teachers association (PGA) to aknowledge the coaches. Sports assiciation, yet not probably most efficient is something more than a labor unioin.
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On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
 
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