Big changes coming to coaching certification

[sureshs]

I still might, but that is the weekend i am heading to Indian Wells so we will see. The Fairfield one is probably going to work because I am out for the summer from work.

Everyone heads to IW from here after that. The Pacific Coast Doubles here finishes on Sunday. I was supposed to volunteer, but now I have to do this workshop. Sunday evening everyone in the tourney including the TD sets off to IW.

So fly out here on Friday, do the workshop, and drive to IW Sunday evening.

 

[sureshs]

From what I read, the USPTA certification program is being completely overhauled this year. The article wording was very convoluted, but it seemed to me that all the USPTA tester and Head tester positions will no longer be required. The certification will be based on teaching the candidate and giving him experience, rather than relying on a test of skills, conducting lessons on court, and a written technical test as in the past. I think it is driven by demographics - the current average age of a US teaching pro is very high, and younger people are not joining. If they need to pass an exam, they may never join.

I wonder whether playing skills will be tested in anyway at all? How would the public have confidence in the pro without that?

 

[ZanderGoga]

What kind of corncob do you have to be to pay for coaching certification in a world where the highest paid coaches are 4.0's with a little social media knowhow?

 

[ChaelAZ]

What kind of corncob do you have to be to pay for coaching certification in a world where the highest paid coaches are 4.0's with a little social media knowhow?

Don't know what area you are in, but the highest paid in yours are 4.0? And what does social media have to do with anything? Most coaches in the Southwest USPTA are 4.5 or better as far as I know. We have some duffers like me, but I completed mine to assist in HS tennis when my son was playing and with some local juniors, not as a regular coach. The certiication was good because of the background checks, general development plans, and advice from other coaches.

 

[movdqa]

Don't know what area you are in, but the highest paid in yours are 4.0? And what does social media have to do with anything? Most coaches in the Southwest USPTA are 4.5 or better as far as I know. We have some duffers like me, but I completed mine to assist in HS tennis when my son was playing and with some local juniors, not as a regular coach. The certiication was good because of the background checks, general development plans, and advice from other coaches.

There was a guy around my area that coached at my club (without their permission) though I haven't seen him since before the pandemic. I'd guess former 6.0 player. He was the highest in-demand coach and coached mainly juniors.

There's a club about forty miles from me and the coaches charged $45 to $75 an hour about 15 years ago. You add on court fees. My daughter used one of the coaches there and she was great. She was one of the lower-tier coaches. If you provide a big enough incentive, then you're going to get good coaches who are also good players. I'm sure that there is some price-point where you could get Edberg to coach you.

 

[sureshs]

What kind of corncob do you have to be to pay for coaching certification in a world where the highest paid coaches are 4.0's with a little social media knowhow?

The kind that will have a job, because the USTA is serious about pushing PTA/PTR certified people into all coaching positions.

 

[sureshs]

Don't know what area you are in, but the highest paid in yours are 4.0? And what does social media have to do with anything? Most coaches in the Southwest USPTA are 4.5 or better as far as I know. We have some duffers like me, but I completed mine to assist in HS tennis when my son was playing and with some local juniors, not as a regular coach. The certiication was good because of the background checks, general development plans, and advice from other coaches.

Yes. Without background checks and Safeplay, organizations will no longer employ people. Many of the coaches here are former college or even Challenger level players.

 

[Mountain Ghost]

In the "old days" ... (in San Diego where I grew up) ... the best and most in-demand pros were not certified. Now ... anyone who wants to teach at any club or institution ... HAS to be certified. Not saying they're not knowledgeable or helpful ... but there's still only a handful that are really worth their salt ... or YOUR money!

The best path for players who are "serious" ... is to play a ton in a real tennis scene ... learn what they can from all the free information and videos out there ... and then find what pros the best players go to (or went to) ... so as to fine-tune ... and integrate.

~ MG

 

[sureshs]

In the "old days" ... (in San Diego where I grew up) ... the best and most in-demand pros were not certified. Now ... anyone who wants to teach at any club or institution ... HAS to be certified. Not saying they're not knowledgeable or helpful ... but there's still only a handful that are really worth their salt ... or YOUR money!

The best path for players who are "serious" ... is to play a ton in a real tennis scene ... learn what they can from all the free information and videos out there ... and then find what pros the best players go to (or went to) ... so as to fine-tune ... and integrate.

~ MG

True, but the change that I mentioned is that the "exam" is probably going away and being replaced by "mentoring and experience."

Would students be comfortable with a pro (assume he has no record of college or pro tennis) who never had to take a skills test?

 

[nyta2]

certs are great for noname-nobodies like me...
all the good coaches i'd highly respect typically can just say:
* "played ranked div{1,2,3} school"
* "was a ranked junior in my state/country"
* "have an ATP/WTA point"
* "coached N kids to become ranked juniors/pros"
* etc...

certs certainly helps a newbie looking, distinguish someone who's gone through the effort of minimally getting tested to say the 4.0 level (min reqs for base certs)... vs. the "3.0" knowitall hack that every court seems to have...
just like you don't need an orthopedic surgeon to treat your cold..
you don't need an ATP pro to hand feed balls to a noob struggling with the eye hand coordination to make contact...
if you're at the 4.0+ level, makes sense to go beyond certs and go with someone a level or two above (say a 5.0, or someone with the above "creds beyond certs")

kinda reminds of the concept of resumes, needed by nobodies like me,... but someone like NeilArmstrong just needs to say "I've been to the moon..." (or fill in whatever BigName + BigAccomplishment)

 

[giantschwinn]

The head coach in my club is certified up the wazoo, but he has developed no one, AND no one developed is working with him. Coaches are defined by the students they have. The good ones are very picky and won't work with someone who doesn't have good potential. Because their reputation depends on it.

 

[ChaelAZ]

certs are great for noname-nobodies like me...
all the good coaches i'd highly respect typically can just say:
* "played ranked div{1,2,3} school"
* "was a ranked junior in my state/country"
* "have an ATP/WTA point"
* "coached N kids to become ranked juniors/pros"
* etc...

certs certainly helps a newbie looking, distinguish someone who's gone through the effort of minimally getting tested to say the 4.0 level (min reqs for base certs)... vs. the "3.0" knowitall hack that every court seems to have...
just like you don't need an orthopedic surgeon to treat your cold..
you don't need an ATP pro to hand feed balls to a noob struggling with the eye hand coordination to make contact...
if you're at the 4.0+ level, makes sense to go beyond certs and go with someone a level or two above (say a 5.0, or someone with the above "creds beyond certs")

kinda reminds of the concept of resumes, needed by nobodies like me,... but someone like NeilArmstrong just needs to say "I've been to the moon..." (or fill in whatever BigName + BigAccomplishment)

Lots I agree with for sure.

And we can circle around back to, not all players make great coaches, and not all great coaches were good players. Your examples is very good for this too. Neil Armstrong is a top astronaut, but that doesn't mean he could teach flight simulators, theoretical math for orbiting, propulsion, telemetry, etc. Akin to many top players saying they could/would never coach. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot novices can learn from pros, just like novice coaches can really learn from mentors. But if the only true path is to be coached by someone better, top players who never have coaches. There is a diminishing return of ability or even experience where theoretical knowledge, interpersonal communication, mental toughness, strategy, etc and the ability to develop it in others outweigh it.

 

[giantschwinn]

I think by now almost everyone is certified. It's not something you can point to and differentiate yourself from others. What counts more is if you have students that hit like pros.

 

[sureshs]

certs are great for noname-nobodies like me...
all the good coaches i'd highly respect typically can just say:
* "played ranked div{1,2,3} school"
* "was a ranked junior in my state/country"
* "have an ATP/WTA point"
* "coached N kids to become ranked juniors/pros"
* etc...

certs certainly helps a newbie looking, distinguish someone who's gone through the effort of minimally getting tested to say the 4.0 level (min reqs for base certs)... vs. the "3.0" knowitall hack that every court seems to have...
just like you don't need an orthopedic surgeon to treat your cold..
you don't need an ATP pro to hand feed balls to a noob struggling with the eye hand coordination to make contact...
if you're at the 4.0+ level, makes sense to go beyond certs and go with someone a level or two above (say a 5.0, or someone with the above "creds beyond certs")

kinda reminds of the concept of resumes, needed by nobodies like me,... but someone like NeilArmstrong just needs to say "I've been to the moon..." (or fill in whatever BigName + BigAccomplishment)

It is more about Safeplay training (refresher needed every year) and background checks (every 2 years).

 

[5sets]

Lots I agree with for sure.

And we can circle around back to, not all players make great coaches, and not all great coaches were good players. Your examples is very good for this too. Neil Armstrong is a top astronaut, but that doesn't mean he could teach flight simulators, theoretical math for orbiting, propulsion, telemetry, etc. Akin to many top players saying they could/would never coach. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot novices can learn from pros, just like novice coaches can really learn from mentors. But if the only true path is to be coached by someone better, top players who never have coaches. There is a diminishing return of ability or even experience where theoretical knowledge, interpersonal communication, mental toughness, strategy, etc and the ability to develop it in others outweigh it.

It’s mentioned in another thread, Nick Bolletieri is a 3.5 ntrp. There are a lot of 5.0+ guys with big heads out there too who don’t know their *** from their elbow.

 

[JohnYandell]

Nick is over 80! But was probably more like a really good 4.5 or even 5.0 in his day.

 

[chrisb]

Nick is over 80! But was probably more like a really good 4.5 or even 5.0 in his day.

Nick started in Conn teaching as assistant pro was a poor player with a good gift of gab

 

[JohnYandell]

He did play on a college tennis team. I think my designation is about right based on what I saw when I was at his academy as a kid and what other coaches there have observed and said. Totally agree that his talk was his greatest weapon/asset.

 

[giantschwinn]

Did Bolletieri developed Sharapova or did Lansdorp?

 

[JohnYandell]

She came to So Cal to work with Robert when she was like 11--but that was intermittent. I have film of that because I was down there doing some articles with Robert--just coincidence that I filmed Maria. I remember Robert saying you should film this Russian kid--she's pretty good. On the label of the tape I wrote Lansdorp with Russian kid. He was big then on teaching her the reverse finish on her forehand. I also know from Robert he and Yuri talked all the time. But she sure spent a lot of years at the academy. When Maria beat Serena to win that first Wimbledon she thanked them both...

 

[chrisb]

college tennis?????

 

[giantschwinn]

She came to So Cal to work with Robert when she was like 11--but that was intermittent. I have film of that because I was down there doing some articles with Robert--just coincidence that I filmed Maria. I remember Robert saying you should film this Russian kid--she's pretty good. On the label of the tape I wrote Lansdorp with Russian kid. He was big then on teaching her the reverse finish on her forehand. I also know from Robert he and Yuri talked all the time. But she sure spent a lot of years at the academy. When Maria beat Serena to win that first Wimbledon she thanked them both...

It seems like the top kids do tend to bounce around from one guru to another. I guess it might be because they want to see what each of them have to offer.

 

[JohnYandell]

Giant,
Yeah and especially when the parents are clueless and looking for magic bullets

 

[JohnYandell]

Chris,
Yes college is a better play since you have a better chance of being attacked by a great white shark than making top 50 in the world.

 

[JohnYandell]

One more Lansdorp quote: " I never met a tennis parent who didn't think their kid was one lesson away from winning a Grand Slam."

 

[giantschwinn]

One more Lansdorp quote: " I never met a tennis parent who didn't think their kid was one lesson away from winning a Grand Slam."

This is why I love Lansdorp, he doesn't sugar coat. Macci and Bolletieri are always saying so and so is going places, best they have seen. Different approaches I guess.

 

[sureshs]

You must have sensed an undercurrent of skepticism in my previous posts about the new certification requirements of the USTA which involve lot of internship hours under a willing mentor and other complications, compared to the old method of getting training by videos/workshop and demonstrating minimum playing skills and conducting a mock lesson. Also at issue was why the USTA was getting into dictating certification at all. The stated reasons were the supposedly higher standards in golf instruction and the supposedly higher standards in tennis coaching in other countries.

The USPTA was dragged into this and played nice and got accredited (I think in their second attempt), and then the USPTR was quickly accredited during the pandemic anticipating the reopening boom. The USPTA might also have played nice in order to have their headquarters in the same NTC Orlando campus next to the USTA.

Well, now it has happened. Things have fallen apart. From an email from the USPTA:

USPTA Elects Not to Reapply for USTA Accreditation

Starting in 2018, the USPTA has worked collaboratively with the USTA in an attempt to develop a meaningful Accreditation Program which includes elevating the certification standards of tennis-teaching professionals. One of the key objectives was a specific focus on the job market and marketing the value of having certified professionals delivering tennis at facilities. While the certification standards have been raised, not enough has been done to positively impact employment opportunities for you, our members.

Club operators and employers have not gotten behind the concept of hiring professionals from an accredited organization or requiring their teaching staff to be members in good standing of an accredited organization. Little promotion or marketing has been done to make consumers aware of the value of having their coaches be certified. Up to this point, accreditation has not had the desired effect that was originally intended four years ago.

Therefore, the USPTA Board of Directors and Executive Committee have elected not to reapply for full accreditation from USTA until such time that accreditation means something substantive in the marketplace. The USPTA remains committed to raising the standards of tennis-teaching and coaching and improving opportunities for our members. The USPTA will certify its applicants under its own certification pathway established in 2021 that significantly raises the standards of certification in the U.S.

The USPTA will continue to work with USTA on improving the accreditation process to add value to our members and enhance the meaning of being a certified professional from an accredited organization. When these goals are accomplished and the job market embraces accreditation and facilities begin hiring and retaining professionals who are certified and members in good standing of an accredited organization, the USPTA will look forward to reapplying and becoming fully accredited again.

 

[FiddlerDog]

Why do you care about coaching rules?
You do not take lessons.
Do you actually be giving anyone lessons ?