BounceHitBounceHit
Legend
Greg, Thanks for your posts. They are always informative and helpful. Best, CC
Big SW specs from Indian Wells courtesy of Greg Raven
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Greg, Thanks for your posts. They are always informative and helpful. Best, CC
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Federer's racquet is 12.8 oz. He uses a very thin overgrip that doesn't weigh all that much. It's less than half of the weight of the overgrip that I use. The string savers and power pads are tiny and do not add a whole lot of weight. I'm sure he also gets racquets that are much tighter in specs, meaning his are selected so that they are actually exactly to the published specs of 12.5 oz. strung. The rest of us get whatever comes off the assembly line.
No Roger uses the wilson overgrip and it is the heaviest I have played with, further more gut and poly wieght much much more than a sythetic, and string savers and power pads would be like adding another overgrip.
The published specs are still to heavy and not headlight enough after adding all that on.
Finally the swing weight would be far far too high on the stock version.
You would need at K90 that is 12.0oz and swing weight of ~330 or less.
Show me where I can pick this racket up as I have been dieing to buy 4 of them
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
That makes sense,wish the notes would have explained that, wouild have made a lot more sense.
As for Gasquet I will bet any dollar amount you would like to put into Escrow, that the SW is incorrect.
Gasquet plays with the same exact LMIXLT that we can get, all he does is change to leather overgrip, gut mains Alu power crosses, and dampner.
Explain how the SW magically got up to 381 with out breaking past 12.73oz when it is a stock LMIXLT.
Gasquet like Federer likes a low SW.
Let me know if you would be willing to make that bet all I would ask for is the rights/owership of your website.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Oh and one more note, there is a huge huge note on Roger's real racket.
Roger's rackets are special selected, they are lighter and more head light.
Now if you can dig around and find them like that I will be willing to pay, but I have not ever ever seen one that light and that head light.
They are always too head heavy and static weight too high, Wilson QC sucks when it come to the K90s, I have been through a lot of them and finally gave up.
I supposed I could pay$300 to PNRY to slect them for me, but at this point I dont' want to dish out $300 a racket.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
The Wilson Pro overgrip is very thin and is very light. I know because I've used it before. My usual overgrip is the Gosen Ripple overgrip. It's twice as thick and weighs twice as heavy as the Wilson Pro overgrip. The Wilson Pro overgrip adds between 0.15 to 0.20 oz. to the racquet's weight depending on how much of it you use (and overlap). That's puts Federer's racquet at around 12.65 to 12.70 oz. Add in the Luxilon crosses, string savers, and power pads and I'd say 12.80 oz. is about right. The weight of the overgrip offsets the extra weight from the Lux crosses, the string savers, and the power pads so that overall net balance is just a bit less than the 9 pts. HL retail spec (Federer's is 8.75 pts. HL). Yup, right on spec for the retail ones.
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jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
The Wilson Pro overgrip is very thin and is very light. I know because I've used it before. My usual overgrip is the Gosen Ripple overgrip. It's twice as thick and weighs twice as heavy as they Wilson Pro overgrip. The Wilson Pro overgrip adds between 1.5 to 2.0 oz. to the racquet's overgrip depending on how much of it you use (and overlap). That's puts Federer's racquet at around 12.65 to 12.70 oz. Add in the Luxilon crosses, string savers, and power pads and I'd say 12.80 oz. is about right. The weight of the overgrip offsets the extra weight from the Lux crosses, the string savers, and the power pads so that overall net balance is just a bit less than 9 pts. HL (8.75 pts. HL). Yup, right on spec for the retail ones.
I will have to weigh everything as I have a digital scale that goes the the 1000th.
Even if you listed weights are correct the SW does not jive and the balance does not jive.
Check the post where Roger's friend or who ever talked about the whole process, and he even stated "you could get lucky and find a few out there"
But we are talking chance here.
Gut and poly weigh a whole lot more than a sythetic, and increase the SW by a great deal, and then you have the powerpads and the string savers up there.
Wilson over grip = gut/poly, powerpads, string savers????
Automatix
Legend
What about the difference in Kuza's swingweight?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
How so? Federer's SW is 338 while USRSA's is 331 and TW's is 336. Sounds about right to me. Who knows what TW strung the frames with when they measured them.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
He is. Scroll down.
BorisBeckerFan
Professional
I find that for me, early preparation is key to having a heavy stick. I'm in my thirties and have packed on some pounds over the years. I am starting to play for about 2 to 2.5 hourrs 4 times a week and preparing early has really forced me to move my feet and get in better shape. I've lost 20 pounds over the last year just playing tennis. Maybe I should be doing other things to speed up weight loss but I thank the weight loss all to leading up my MG Prestige. I put 4 3.5 inch strips in the handle two 3.5 inch strips at 3 O'clock and two 3.5 inch strips at 9 O'clock under CAP grommets so it doesn't make the already disgusting paint job any worse. I can no longer afford lazy or late swings and this has really helped my game and getting in shape. I am not particularly strong or big so it does take me a split second longer to get the frame moving at full speed but overall the results are worth it for me. My onehanded backhand has improved tremendously since adding the lead.
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
This is a secret, but you may be able to guess by checking the column labeled "Mass."
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
According to some measurements that just came into my possession, it was 347, and this seems to be for a strung frame. Unfortunately, I don't know how long ago this measurement was taken.
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
Interesting bet, considering that Gasquet and his racquets have left the area, the tournament is over, the stringing team and equipment are gone, and you don't believe me anyway.
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
Things were a bit hectic this year, so I didn't check length and flex.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Federer's racquet is 12.8 oz. He uses a very thin overgrip that doesn't weigh all that much. It's less than half of the weight of the overgrip that I use. The string savers and power pads are tiny and do not add a whole lot of weight. I'm sure he also gets racquets that are much tighter in specs, meaning his are selected so that they are actually exactly to the published specs of 12.5 oz. strung. The rest of us get whatever comes off the assembly line.
I'm with BreakPoint. I have also used the Wilson overgrip and found it to be lighter than Tournagrip. The Wilson overgrip is probably one of the lighter overgrips I've ever used.
I also agree on the string savers and powerpads. They aren't going to add enough weight to matter.
And, BP's right on the tolerances too. Federer would get the creme of what comes off the line, or at least creme as Federer defines it.
From personal experience, a multi isn't going to weigh that much different than gut of the same gauge, maybe 1 gram. One gram spread over a racket face isn't going to make any difference.
There has been more than one person on these boards indicating that Federer's specs are equal to what the retail version has in relation to weight, balance, and swing weight. There is a more bombastic member of the boards who keeps saying that Federer gets the "good" graphite. Well....ok......whatever. Good graphite or bad graphite, when all is said and done I don't think (if it exists) Federer would know the difference. Federer probably could care less about any of these specs.
Greg..let me chime in as well and offer my thanks.
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drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
^^When mdqm and I were modifying the kps88, we found that the power pads weighed next to nothing (and they were very thick power pads), so I would imagine that a couple of string savers aren't even going to give a reading when weighed. We were also not able to get a reading in grams on the white overgrips.
Greg, thanks for all the info!!! I bet you some of these posters have no clue what they are talking about. I'll bet for "rights/ownership" of your website.
Greg, thanks for all the info!!! I bet you some of these posters have no clue what they are talking about. I'll bet for "rights/ownership" of your website.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
guys, let us speak hypothetically for example, powerpad almost one gram .9g plus string savors .5grams (they do weigh something it is not air) difference between gut and Mullti of same gauge more than 1gram could be 1.5g, difference in thin VS thicker overgrip 1.9 grams, dampener 2grams etc.....
add all these up and they are more than 5 grams I think, it is not less than few grams that no one on earth can detect. if they are spread all over the frame it is very hard to detect but I am sure Fed and Sampras can notice but if concentrated in hoop or handle then I can detect it very easily even in a blind test.
why are we giving useless balance reading of 31.4 cm and 31.5 cm as if we are going to notice???!?! why bother then. I can understand between 31.25 and 31.50 at most.
add all these up and they are more than 5 grams I think, it is not less than few grams that no one on earth can detect. if they are spread all over the frame it is very hard to detect but I am sure Fed and Sampras can notice but if concentrated in hoop or handle then I can detect it very easily even in a blind test.
why are we giving useless balance reading of 31.4 cm and 31.5 cm as if we are going to notice???!?! why bother then. I can understand between 31.25 and 31.50 at most.
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Pro_Tour_630
Legend
seems like you and mdqm need to get one of these pocket scales that you can be arrested for dealing
Thanks, Greg: feel like a real idiot now. My fault for not reading AND comprehending.
ShcMad
Hall of Fame
Thank you. Know that everyone here appreciates all the info that you give us.
PurePrestige
Semi-Pro
There is alot of things wrong here. Primarily I was just wondering how you know that Gasquet, like Federer, likes a low swingweight? When did you have the chance to ask him this???
Secondly you are a little too confident of your knowledge of Gasquet's racket when you apparently know nothing.
First of all Gasquet currently and for a long time has been using Luxilon Big Banger Original string, I don't think he has ever used Gut and Alu. He used Alu very briefly a long time ago but that was short lived.
Also, Gasquet DOES NOT use the stock LMIXL, it is clear if you see countless pictures that were posted back when he was using the liquidmetal paintjob, if it was a stock LMIXL it would say as much on the racket, they wouldn't have to change the paintjob? His LMIXL mold had nothing on it written about Tour or XL, I know because I own an LMIXL, Gasquet had a paintjob of a standard instinct.
Overall, you have no idea whether his racket is a stock LMIXL and no basis to prove yourself. Second you have no idea what string he even uses when proclaiming that you 'know' he prefers a light swingweight like federer. I don't know where you are getting your facts or if you are just having fun making dumb claims.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Correct Roger uses Gut mains and Alu, Gasquet BBO http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=251371.
And yes Gasquet uses the LMIXLT, before that he used the IPrestige 27.5, and before that a PC600.
Stock the racket is 12.2oz, add poly, dampner, tourna overgrip, leather overgrip and you have your 12.73oz.
And if you were right that he uses the plain LMI then it would help my bet even more, so thank you. As it would be 100% impossible to have a SW of 381.
PurePrestige
Semi-Pro
You are apparently missing something in the translation.
He uses a custom layup, his racket is both extended (27.5) just like his i.prestige mpxl that he used before. As well as open patterned.
However it is not a stock LMIXL. I'm just letting you know that it isn't an off the shelf mold necessarily.
Additionally assuming specs are wrong because the static weight doesn't add up? We all know that pro's such as safin have had their racquets made to lighter specs to allow for customization.
I'm also certainly not suggesting he uses a standard LMI, because his racquet is neither 27" nor does it have 18 mains. I am merely stating that while his racquet may be 27.5" and 16 mains like that LMIXLT it is not a stock LMIXL, the racquet has a paintjob of a standard instinct while it comes from a LMIXL mold.
He uses a custom layup, his racket is both extended (27.5) just like his i.prestige mpxl that he used before. As well as open patterned.
However it is not a stock LMIXL. I'm just letting you know that it isn't an off the shelf mold necessarily.
Additionally assuming specs are wrong because the static weight doesn't add up? We all know that pro's such as safin have had their racquets made to lighter specs to allow for customization.
I'm also certainly not suggesting he uses a standard LMI, because his racquet is neither 27" nor does it have 18 mains. I am merely stating that while his racquet may be 27.5" and 16 mains like that LMIXLT it is not a stock LMIXL, the racquet has a paintjob of a standard instinct while it comes from a LMIXL mold.
ronalditop
Hall of Fame
Yes .
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Here is a very very interesting fact, the LMIXL is still made in Austria with the PT630, P600, ect.
Here is another note, I understand physics and know for a fact that you can't play Gasquet's game with a racket that is 12.73oz and a SW 381.
I for one 100% apreciate Greg's website, but we need to be clear on the data and possible mistakes. Just like you are checking me LOL
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
I don't understand the "LMIXLT" reference, but if you bought the Head MicroGel Extreme Pro from Tennis Warehouse as advertised, and added 12.7 grams at 68 cm and 16.2 grams at 7 cm, you'd have the weight, balance, and swingweight that I measured at the 2009 BNP Paribas Open.
PurePrestige
Semi-Pro
The LMIXLT reference is to the frame that Gasquet is still using. According to most images people have seen Liquidmetal ridges on his Microgel Extreme paintjob that suggests he is still using the Liquidmetal mold. and the Liquidmetal Instinct XL Tour (LMIXLT) is supposed to be the best matchup, since Gasquet has been known to prefer the 27.5 and open pattern, most assume that he is using the same mold as the LMIXLT.
Though I don't have the devices to measure or anything but according to USRSA spec. and LMIXLT comes in at a balance of 32.25. Swingweight of 330. and Static Weight of 331 grams.
This is for a strung racket, putting the LMIXL at 11.68oz (331g). I am not sure where Jackson Vile's figure of 12.2 came from, but when you have about 30 grams to play around with it is certainly possibly to attain the posted specs by Greg Raven.
Also just to be thorough, as Jackson Vile likes to point out weight differences with Poly strings and dampeners and grips and such. I believe Gasquets racket was measured with Overgrip but without Dampener. Greg can probably confirm or correct this.
I'm not sure if Greg feels like running through the calculations for creating a Gasquet racket from the USRSA spec'ing LM Instinct Tour XL. But I'm sure all can see there is room for customization for sure.
Though I don't have the devices to measure or anything but according to USRSA spec. and LMIXLT comes in at a balance of 32.25. Swingweight of 330. and Static Weight of 331 grams.
This is for a strung racket, putting the LMIXL at 11.68oz (331g). I am not sure where Jackson Vile's figure of 12.2 came from, but when you have about 30 grams to play around with it is certainly possibly to attain the posted specs by Greg Raven.
Also just to be thorough, as Jackson Vile likes to point out weight differences with Poly strings and dampeners and grips and such. I believe Gasquets racket was measured with Overgrip but without Dampener. Greg can probably confirm or correct this.
I'm not sure if Greg feels like running through the calculations for creating a Gasquet racket from the USRSA spec'ing LM Instinct Tour XL. But I'm sure all can see there is room for customization for sure.
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BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Why not? Are you Gasquet?
Greg Raven
Semi-Pro
There is -- lots of it. You could, for example, put 14.9 grams at 69 cm and 15.1 grams at 3 cm. Obviously, these calculations were modeled on a racquet 27.5 inches long.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
The specs you pulled up look like the 27" non-tour version http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCHEAD-HINST.html
The 12.2oz came from the post above where someone strung and measured Gasquets racket, From TW the specs were SW336, flex 63, static ~12.1, balance 10ptHL, 27.5"
Also see here http://www.tennisb00m.com/heliintoxlte.html
So at best we are looking at 343g, then you have to add dampner, then lether replacement grip, then tourna overgrip, finally poly that is very very heavy compared to a synthetic.
Gasquet's end SW ~342+
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=251371
Posted by vbrains [from IW string room]
There you go, the moral to this story is that you have to be careful taking specs and that errors happen.
I thank Greg for posting, but the whole point of post is to ensure that we know exactly what is what and not to let incorrect information be spread as truth.
Posted by vbrains [from IW string room]
There you go, the moral to this story is that you have to be careful taking specs and that errors happen.
I thank Greg for posting, but the whole point of post is to ensure that we know exactly what is what and not to let incorrect information be spread as truth.
PurePrestige
Semi-Pro
I am pretty sure that the USRSA Specs I posted are not for the standard length instinct regardless here is the snippet:
"Head Liquidmetal Tour XL: SW-330 CM-32.25 WT-331"
Granted a TW racket may have come in at those specs, and what I am telling you is that Gasquet's rackets don't necessarily come in at either TW or USRSA specs. I am sure Head probably provides him with a lighter spec racket to achieve his desired weight and balance.
Finally, although you can cherry pick specs from here and there. Just as the link to the Gasquet racket pics you posted, Greg measured Gasquet's racket from Indian Wells. It is true we don't want the wrong information spread around.
But I think we can trust Greg Raven who IS an MRT, to be measuring rackets correctly.
I'd like to believe that Greg who is measuring a pro's racket during a tournament is more accurate than your calculations on what Gasquet's swingweight must be under the stipulation that he must be starting with the same stock racket available to the public.
Also, even if Greg's measurements were off, which I highly doubt, I also doubt his measurements would be off by ~40 units of swingweight...
"Head Liquidmetal Tour XL: SW-330 CM-32.25 WT-331"
Granted a TW racket may have come in at those specs, and what I am telling you is that Gasquet's rackets don't necessarily come in at either TW or USRSA specs. I am sure Head probably provides him with a lighter spec racket to achieve his desired weight and balance.
Finally, although you can cherry pick specs from here and there. Just as the link to the Gasquet racket pics you posted, Greg measured Gasquet's racket from Indian Wells. It is true we don't want the wrong information spread around.
But I think we can trust Greg Raven who IS an MRT, to be measuring rackets correctly.
I'd like to believe that Greg who is measuring a pro's racket during a tournament is more accurate than your calculations on what Gasquet's swingweight must be under the stipulation that he must be starting with the same stock racket available to the public.
Also, even if Greg's measurements were off, which I highly doubt, I also doubt his measurements would be off by ~40 units of swingweight...
Can you say if there is lead under bumperguard?
Does it have drilled small hole in the buttcap for filling the sillicone ?
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
It's a great racket and very deadly from the basline and serve, do you have any pics are did you sell it?
More specs from Greg Raven
Greg Raven has posted another batch of pro specs on his website. This time we get "A grab bag of Legacy specs"!
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs.html
This batch and the Indian Wells specs have been organized in sortable tables - very nice.
Thanks Greg!
Greg Raven has posted another batch of pro specs on his website. This time we get "A grab bag of Legacy specs"!
http://www.hdtennis.com/grs/pro_racquet_specs.html
This batch and the Indian Wells specs have been organized in sortable tables - very nice.
Thanks Greg!
federerdomination
Semi-Pro
Murray 418 SW???
Cup8489
G.O.A.T.
keep in mind that was before he decided to change his racquets around..the site indicates furthur down in the IW 2009 section that his unconfirmed swingweight is now around 404...
either way, murray's stick is a beast, and i wouldn't mind trying it out...if i had muscles
jace112
Semi-Pro
About Gasquet's frame :
I'm sorry I got to take some pics. I cannot find the ones I took few months ago. It's still on a wall.
BTW, I didn't like this racquet at all. Very firm, not that much power, heavy to swing... Not my cup of tea. I much prefer the feel and the compromise of a Prestige. String pattern was wierd anyway.
I do understand why this racquet didn't have a lot of success. Some may like it, but it's a very strange beast.