Big3's greatest Slam SF+F performances

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
SF+F games won percentage minus opponents' geometric mean average ranking (excluding themselves from the ranking):

(example: 2019 AO Djokovic won 75.0% of games against opponents ranked 5.5 on average --> 75.0 - 5.5 = 69.3)

2019 AO Djokovic 69.5
2017 RG Nadal 69.3
2008 RG Nadal 67.8
2019 RG Nadal 63.7
2004 UO Federer 63.4
2018 RG Nadal 63.3
2013 AO Djokovic 62.8
2020 RG Nadal 62.5
2016 RG Djokovic 62.4
2015 UO Djokovic 62.3
2016 AO Djokovic 61.7
2006 WI Federer 61.2
2014 RG Nadal 60.9
2012 RG Nadal 60.7
2008 UO Federer / 2010 AO Federer 59.1
2011 UO Djokovic 58.8
2007 RG Nadal / 2013 UO Nadal 58.1
2013 RG Nadal 58.0
2011 AO Djokovic 57.9
2007 AO Federer 57.4
2005 WI Federer 57.3
2006 UO Federer 56.9
2007 UO Federer / 2010 UO Nadal 56.1
2018 UO Djokovic 55.9
2011 RG Nadal 54.9
2012 WI Federer 54.7
2012 AO Djokovic 54.6
2005 RG Nadal / 2006 RG Nadal 54.3
2011 WI Djokovic 53.9
2015 AO Djokovic 53.1
2004 WI Federer 52.7
2010 WI Nadal 52.5
2015 WI Djokovic / 2017 WI Federer 51.6
2020 AO Djokovic 51.4
2005 UO Federer 51.1
2010 RG Nadal / 2018 WI Djokovic 50.7
2007 WI Federer 49.5
2008 AO Djokovic 49.3
2009 AO Nadal 48.2
2008 WI Nadal 47.7
2018 AO Federer 47.5
2004 AO Federer 47.2
2017 AO Federer 46.7
2019 UO Nadal 46.3
2019 WI Djokovic 45.0
2009 RG Federer 44.9
2014 WI Djokovic 44.5
2003 WI Federer 42.8
2009 WI Federer 38.1
2017 UO Nadal 36.7
2006 AO Federer 28.7
 
Last edited:

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
2019 AO Djokovic 69.5
2017 RG Nadal 69.3
2008 RG Nadal 67.8
2019 RG Nadal 63.7
2004 UO Federer 63.4
2018 RG Nadal 63.3
2013 AO Djokovic 62.8
2020 RG Nadal 62.5
2016 RG Djokovic 62.4
2015 UO Djokovic 62.3
2016 AO Djokovic 61.7

Out of the 11 best performances:

Nadal and Djokovic 5
Federer 1

2009 AO Nadal 48.2
2008 WI Nadal 47.7
2018 AO Federer 47.5
2004 AO Federer 47.2
2017 AO Federer 46.7
2019 UO Nadal 46.3
2019 WI Djokovic 45.0
2009 RG Federer 44.9
2014 WI Djokovic 44.5
2003 WI Federer 42.8
2009 WI Federer 38.1
2017 UO Nadal 36.7
2006 AO Federer 28.7
Out of the 13 worst performances:

Federer 7
Nadal 4
Djokovic 2
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
4y34kr.jpg
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
More dominant performances also indicate that the competition was was weaker.

In other words, more proof that 2016-2020 is weak era.
But this stat considers the ranking position too. Do you consider high ranked players weak?
 
Last edited:

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
But this stat considers the ranking position too? Are high ranked players weak?
Depends on the strength of the field. Some previous era top 10 had several previous slam champion and contenders. Current top 10 is Big 3, plus some guys with potential (mostly unrealized potential, so far).

Year end top 10 in 2005: Federer, Rafa, Roddick, Hewitt, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Agassi, Coria, Ljubicic, Gaudio.
Year end top 10 in 2020: Novak, Rafa, Theim, Medvedev, Federer, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Rublev, Scwartzman, Berrettini.

Fed and Rafa are on both. Novak is obviously better than the rest of 2005, but at least 5 players in 2005 are better than the non Big 3 part of 2020.

The year end top 10 in 2017 included Dimitrov, Goffin, PCB, and Jack Sock. Lol. 2018 had Anderson, Nishikori, and Isner. They’re all solid players, but might be steps down from the ones in 2020.

Much like ELO, rankings are relative to that moment in time.

4 of Nadal's top5 performances at RG were from the last 4 years :eek:

Will this guy ever stop winning the RG?
Eventually. We just don’t know when.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
SF+F games won percentage minus opponents' geometric mean average ranking (excluding themselves from the ranking):

(example: 2019 AO Djokovic won 75.0% of games against opponents ranked 5.5 on average --> 75.0 - 5.5 = 69.3)

2019 AO Djokovic 69.5
2017 RG Nadal 69.3
2008 RG Nadal 67.8
2019 RG Nadal 63.7
2004 UO Federer 63.4
2018 RG Nadal 63.3
2013 AO Djokovic 62.8
2020 RG Nadal 62.5
2016 RG Djokovic 62.4
2015 UO Djokovic 62.3
2016 AO Djokovic 61.7
2006 WI Federer 61.2
2014 RG Nadal 60.9
2012 RG Nadal 60.7
2008 UO Federer / 2010 AO Federer 59.1
2011 UO Djokovic 58.8
2007 RG Nadal / 2013 UO Nadal 58.1
2013 RG Nadal 58.0
2011 AO Djokovic 57.9
2007 AO Federer 57.4
2005 WI Federer 57.3
2006 UO Federer 56.9
2007 UO Federer / 2010 UO Nadal 56.1
2018 UO Djokovic 55.9
2011 RG Nadal 54.9
2012 WI Federer 54.7
2012 AO Djokovic 54.6
2005 RG Nadal / 2006 RG Nadal 54.3
2011 WI Djokovic 53.9
2015 AO Djokovic 53.1
2004 WI Federer 52.7
2010 WI Nadal 52.5
2015 WI Djokovic / 2017 WI Federer 51.6
2020 AO Djokovic 51.4
2005 UO Federer 51.1
2010 RG Nadal / 2018 WI Djokovic 50.7
2007 WI Federer 49.5
2008 AO Djokovic 49.3
2009 AO Nadal 48.2
2008 WI Nadal 47.7
2018 AO Federer 47.5
2004 AO Federer 47.2
2017 AO Federer 46.7
2019 UO Nadal 46.3
2019 WI Djokovic 45.0
2009 RG Federer 44.9
2014 WI Djokovic 44.5
2003 WI Federer 42.8
2009 WI Federer 38.1
2017 UO Nadal 36.7
2006 AO Federer 28.7
How would you rate the top 3 events at each slam for the big 3?
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
thanks for another indicator that 2016-20 was MUCH WEAKER than 2003-07.
:-D
If you were a player what would you pick:

- beating the #1 with the score of 6-0 6-0 6-0
- beating the #50 with the score of 0-6 0-6 7-6 7-6 7-6
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
not relevant to what I said.
plus your hypothetical is so utterly unrealistic.
Answer the question, please.

If you want more realistic options:

- beating the #1 with the score of 6-2 6-3 6-2
- beating the #20 with the score of 3-6 2-6 7-6 6-4 7-6
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
Answer the question, please.

If you want more realistic options:

- beating the #1 with the score of 6-2 6-3 6-2
- beating the #20 with the score of 3-6 2-6 7-6 6-4 7-6
Players don't get to pick who they play. They play who the draw gives them.

Players just prefer to win. I know, I do when I play.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You would pick the first option, but you avoid to answer because it would expose you.

Like I said, not relevant to what I said regarding competition.
Now go and apply burnol over the butthurt of another self-goal. :)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Let me put in terms you would understand garbage spewing @Lew II

beating #15 Wawrinka in AO 13 4R >> beating #3 Murray in AO 13 final
>> beating #5 Berdych in AO 13 QF
>>>> beating #4 Ferrer in AO 13 SF

in terms of difficulty
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Let me put in terms you would understand garbage spewing @Lew II

beating #15 Wawrinka in AO 13 4R >> beating #3 Murray in AO 13 final
>> beating #5 Berdych in AO 13 QF
>>>> beating #4 Ferrer in AO 13 SF

in terms of difficulty
I don't have great consideration of the eye test as it's often unobjective, especially when coming from fans.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
No it's made up jibberish with no mathematical meaning
Absolutely. Just one example to illustrate the plain absurdity of this idea:

In 2000 when Sampras won Wimbledon, his SF opponent was ranked #237 in the world. So by default, since the average of SF/F opponent had to be over 100, he inevitably had to have a NEGATIVE number in this “statistic”, even if he would win both matches 6-0 6-0 6-0.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Wawrinka in 2014-16 was harder for Djokovic than Federer or Murray in slams and Stan was ranked way lower so it is all not based on the eye test.

Stan had 2 legit ATG level showings.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Absolutely. Just one example to illustrate the plain absurdity of this idea:

In 2000 when Sampras won Wimbledon, his SF opponent was ranked #237 in the world. So by default, since the average of SF/F opponent had to be over 100, he inevitably had to have a NEGATIVE number in this “statistic”, even if he would win both matches 6-0 6-0 6-0.
The rating can also be negative. Why not.
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
The ATP ranking is objective, the eye test is not.
Was Rafa better than Novak in 2019?
.... no answer. What a shock.

In 2020, Theim was ranked #3 at year end. In 2005, Hewit was ranked #5. Obviously, Theim > Hewitt.

or something.

I don't have great consideration of the eye test as it's often unobjective, especially when coming from fans.
I don't have great consideration of made up garbage statistics as it's often not objective, especially when coming from fans.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
.... no answer. What a shock.

In 2020, Theim was ranked #3 at year end. In 2005, Hewit was ranked #5. Obviously, Theim > Hewitt.

or something.


I don't have great consideration of made up garbage statistics as it's often not objective, especially when coming from fans.
Yes in 2019 Nadal was better than Djokovic according to the ranking.

Why do you attack me? I'm not the one who made the ranking. Do you think the ATP is made of fools?
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Scoreline is misleading as well.

Federer beat a 9/10 Roddick in USO 07 would would have anybody else in draw with 42 winners to 24 errors and Federer shut him in straights.
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
Federer was ranked #17 at the AO 2017, while Raonic was #3. Nadal destroyed Raonic and lost to Federer, proving ranking is not always correlated with form.
It's almost like tennis matches aren't computer simulations determined by numbers....

Why do you attack me? I'm not the one who made the ranking. Do you think the ATP is made of fools?
Well... I won't comment on the ATP of the 70-80s. The current ATP Rankings is just computer numbers. They interpret results into a total that calculates rankings. It is an objective snapshot of how things are at THAT moment - kind of like ELO for a single season.

However....

Much like ELO, it isn't an absolute measurement of skill or form especially when compared across different years. Your stat assumes that the #5 ranked player is better than the #20 player. Obviously, that's very likely true for that given year. However, your stat assumes that #5 ranked player is ALWAYS better than the #6 or #8 or #10 ranked player of ANY year - not to mention the #20 ranked player of one year compared to the #30 ranked player of a different year. It's probably true to some vague degree, but not to a precise degree and not a calculable amount. Unfortunately, you are making ACTUAL calculations based on this difference, when the difference is relative rather than absolute.

This kind of looks like false equivalence to me.
 
Last edited:

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
But this stat considers the ranking position too. Do you consider high ranked players weak?

SirChokesOnStats, but according to your own previous analysis the high ranked players of Federer's prime were weak right?

see quotes from linked threads below -


Djokdal moved tennis forward by proving that a weak era could allow someone win 12/18 slams if his competition is Roddick, Hewitt and Baghdatis.

Results? Djokovic had his best results (4/5 multi-slam seasons) since 2015.

He was winning when the competition was Roddick, Baghdatis, Kiefer, but you don't consider them weak.
 
Top