StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Agree. This was a very big missed chance, even at age 36.
Bigger Missed Chance - Djokovic US Open 2020 or Nadal US Open 2022?
- Thread starter Entername
- Start date
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Nadal when he chose to not travel to US in 2020. Just like Djokovic chose not to travel to US this year. Just like Djokovic chose to recklessly hit lineswomen on the throat.
Out of this 2 options obviously Djokovic. He ruled out himself out of competition while Nadal sucked and wasn't winning tournament even if he had got through Tiafoe.
But I'm not sure Djokovic would have won that US open in 2020. He wasn't playing great and Thiem was in his absolute peak.
Out of this 2 options obviously Djokovic. He ruled out himself out of competition while Nadal sucked and wasn't winning tournament even if he had got through Tiafoe.
But I'm not sure Djokovic would have won that US open in 2020. He wasn't playing great and Thiem was in his absolute peak.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
That final did not look like "absolute peak" Thiem
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
2021 final also didn't look like a guy who aspires to be GOAT. Or did it?
2020 Thiem absolutely demolished Med in that SF. Something Djokovic couldn't do year later. He would play against Djokovic in the USO final just like he played him at AO final. During that match Djokovic barely survived doing some possum tricks. And it was on his favorite court with conditions that suits him perfectly. US 2020 was slower with a high bounce just like Dominic Thiem liked it.
*I'm not saying that Thiem would destroyed Djoko. I'm just sick of arrogant and smug Djokovic fans who don't give Thiem any respect and think that "If he didn't get defaulted he would TOTALLY DIMSANTLE THE FIELD!!!!" It would be at least 50/50 match. Thiem played bad in that USO final because he was the favorite against Zverev and it messed with his head. For the first time in his life he was not playing mighty Rafael Nadal of ultron Novak Djokovic in the Grand Slam final but his "next gen" colleague. Luckly for him he woke up in time. Against Djokovic he would be the underdog. Just like he was in AO final.
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DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal - GOAT
Hall of Fame
He had won Montreal, dropped just one set enroute to the finals of USO and had played well at USO in 2019 and 2020. USO conditions have always favoured him over AO.
Though I agree that Med can't beat if Novak/ Rafa play good tennis. This was evident in AO finals. But they are both prone to lapses in these days. Even the USO sf vs Zverev, Novak had lapses and Zverev could have won.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm by no means claiming Djokovic would have destroyed the field, just that he could have made and won the final, specially against an opponent who played below his best in the actual final
Of course if you get defaulted, you're depriving yourself of that opportunity
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Joker would have lost another US Open final if we went with the grain of the Serbian player's fans had he made it to the final match of the tournament.
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Yeah if he hadn't been reckless he would give himself a chance to compete against PCB. And then against Shapo. And then against Zverev and then against Thiem in the finals. Yes he would have a chance of course. But saying that Djokovic didn't win USO20 only because he was defaulted is moronic. Mind you he wasn't playing that great during the USO. And he has a history of losing USO finals against guys who are in their primes or play amazing. (Murray, Wawrinka, Medvedev). Thiem was probably the best player on tour in 2020.
I'm going to go even further. Sudden decline and downfall of Thiem is one of the reasons (if not the main reason) of Djokovic's 3 slam 2021 and Nadal's this year success.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
I would say Nadal's one is more of a big missed opportunity because Djokovic had to play some really good players till the finals and he's vulnerable at USO. Nadal on the other hand had to just beat Alcaraz and Rudd or Khachnov in final. Moreover, Nadal retired from WImbledon to focus on USO , his bet failed. Also, he didn't play 4 is open in last decade.
Entername
Professional
Tbh I'm not sure it's one of Thiem's top 3 slam performances. USO 2018, RG 2019, and AO 2020 are Thiem's best slam performances imo. He played a good SF against Med but a very subpar finals against Zverev who choked even worse lol
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Not just theim but no in form Medvedev this year , No zverev either and probably Rudd or Khach in final and Sinner or Alcaraz in semi who never played a semi before and probably be gassed in semi after playing two 5 setters.
Edit- No Tsitispas either. He will never get that depleted filed ever again on HC slam. He knows it and he must be kicking himself for not winning it.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Djokovic was well rested in 2020 unlike in 2021. Because of that, the field would have had a very hard time beating him because he had plenty in the reserves, plus he hadn't even lost a match I think for the entire season.
martinezownsclay
Hall of Fame
Nadal was never in the form to win here. I still gave it atleast a 25% chance to happen only since the field today is such a joke, but it was obvious even by his early rounds he would be unlikely to go all the way here. His loss to Tiafoe, while surprising that is who he would fall to, is not even that surprising. From the quarters onwards he always would have been fairly vurnerable to possible loss in each match given his form, which was far below his early rounds form of Australia, the French, or even Wimbledon.
That said not that big a missed opportunity. He actually had a quite tough draw (unlike say Ruud) given the bad field of today to boot, on top of his being visibly out of form..
That said not that big a missed opportunity. He actually had a quite tough draw (unlike say Ruud) given the bad field of today to boot, on top of his being visibly out of form..
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Sure. Just like he still would have to beat the field. First in line PCB who he had troubles against. Add to that Thiem who was outplaying him for a big stretch AO final (Djokovic favorite court and conditions).
As usual Djokovic fanbase acts like he's already destroyed all the hypothetical matches (he is getting better than Fed in all the hypotheticals) but they just can't give him a trophy because of lineswoman. He didn't hit her during a final while leading 2-0 you know?
martinezownsclay
Hall of Fame
I also don't think Djokovic was some mortal lock for the 2020 US Open title either. Especialy given his US Open finals record. US Open is not Australia for Novak, LOL!
He was still more likely to win it than Nadal the 2022 US Open though with his garbage form. Either way who cares, Djokovic hit a line call and was right DQed, Nadal got his ass kicked. Neither won, neither deserved it. Next.
He was still more likely to win it than Nadal the 2022 US Open though with his garbage form. Either way who cares, Djokovic hit a line call and was right DQed, Nadal got his ass kicked. Neither won, neither deserved it. Next.
dapchai
Legend
The OP asked about USO 2020 and USO 2022, not USO 2021.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Conversely, if he got bodied by Tiafoe, was he really going to beat better players who are also in good form, later in the week?
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Djokovic was going for Career GS in 2020?
martinezownsclay
Hall of Fame
Yeah Nadal was not winning the title the way he was playing. If Fognini were not a ridiculous headcase he likely goes out in the 2nd round. I expected he would beat Tiafoe, but I never really thought he would win the title, even had I known Kygrios would lose. The fact he unexpectedly lost to Tiafoe to boot, just makes it even more obvious he was never winning (particularly if Tiafoe just loses his next match which I think is likely),
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Oh ok, my bad. But losing 2021 was, for me, a much greater loss than getting defaulted in 2020.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He had never lost to PCB before that default and he's only beaten him once in a completed match. Not exactly somebody he has troubles with. Thiem didn't play as high of a level at the USO as he did in Australia.
A well rested Djokovic on a slick laykold surface while having gone been unbeaten all year, where he has already beaten everybody in the top 5 on hardcourt and most of the top 10 and this is supposed to ring that he somehow wasn't a huge favorite, and it wasn't a massive opportunity missed? Ok.
WeekendTennisHack
Hall of Fame
All Big 3 lost many chances and also won quite a few they shouldn't have considering the circumstances at the time.
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Thiem did play best in that tournament. All you had to do is watch his SF against Med to draw that conclusion.
You speak about those variables that suit your player but you don't mention the most important one. His performance in USO finals against players that peak.
Also I'm not saying that Djokovic didn't have a chance to win that tournament. Just trying to be reasonable. He was not even in the quaters and smug and arrogant Nole fanbase acts like he most definitely would gone through Shapo - Zverev - Thiem.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He played well against Medvedev but still he played a higher level on Australia.
And you think Thiem peaked in the USO final? He didn't play well at all. Djokovic was rested in 2020 unlike in 2012, 2013, 2016, or 2021. That makes a huge difference.
All players that he had already beaten that year.
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
Wow. Just wow. Ok I'm out.
Novak Djokovic moral winner of USO2020. ( as well as 2012, 2013, 2016, or 2021 - sorry Andy, Rafa, Stan and Danil)
MadariKatu
Hall of Fame
How is there even a debate? It's Djoko 2020, and it's not even close.
For starters, Nadal was still recovering from injury, and was beaten by a redlining opponent. He blew nothing there. He did what he could, and it wasn't enough.
Djokovic was having a tight match, that he could still win, and got defaulted, didn't get beaten (even if that was still a possibility). He blew his chances of fighting for it.
For starters, Nadal was still recovering from injury, and was beaten by a redlining opponent. He blew nothing there. He did what he could, and it wasn't enough.
Djokovic was having a tight match, that he could still win, and got defaulted, didn't get beaten (even if that was still a possibility). He blew his chances of fighting for it.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Pretty much. But he was more deserving than Zverev at least. Zverev had no business winning with that cupcake draw and that level.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
USO vs AO is debatable at this point as AO is not slow anymore.
I don't think he was in better form at 2021 USO than 2021 AO.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Med didn't go 5 at USO 21 like he did vs Krajinovic at AO 21.
Obviously played a way better final as well. So yeah, I'd say he was better at USO 21 than at AO 21.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The final opponent made all the difference really. And while he did go 5 vs Krajinovic, he completely destroyed Rublev and Tsitsipas while his USO draw was a cakewalk from start to finish.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I said nothing about Djokovic being the moral winner of any of those USOs. I said 2020 was a huge missed opportunity and he was a huge favorite, which is something you can't seem to grasp.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Med beat FAA just as easily in USO 21 as he beat Rublev in AO 21. not like Rublev is at a different level from FAA.
and Med was helped by Tpas 5-set come back vs Nadal at the AO.
Cheese&IPA
New User
Before this year the stats do show that since he first won it in 2010 a fit and healthy Nadal wins the US open, apart from 2011 every time he has been fit he has won it.
2010- Beat Novak in final
2011- Runner up lost to Novak
2012- Didn’t play
2013- Beat Novak in final
2014- Didn’t play
2015- 3rd round but he was injured and out of form all season and didn’t get past the quarters in any slam that year .
2016 - 4th round but was Injured and out of form again all season and didn’t get past the 4th round of any slam that year
2017- won
2018- retired against del Porto injured in semis
2019- won
Djokovic in comparison has lost 6 finals.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'm still holding out hope that the 4-3 part changes even if the 2-1 doesn't. Not gonna bet my life savings on it though.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Big 3 are too old for the USO.I'm still holding out hope that the 4-3 part changes even if the 2-1 doesn't. Not gonna bet my life savings on it though.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yeah I don't think even Federer got past the QF stage after the age of 35.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Bad luck with the injury in 2019.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Right, whenever Nadal loses is because he's injured of course
Let's also ignore the fact that Nadal has been extremely fortunate in his USO runs, where the draws have largely fallen apart around him, specially in 2017 and 2019 where he beat ONE Top 10 player.
Nadal's record against Top 10 players on hard courts is totally pedestrian, barely better than 50/50, which puts into context just how fortunate he has been in the USO:
| Record | Nadal | Djokovic |
|---|---|---|
| Record vs Top 10 on HC, overall | 74-73 (50.3%) | 169-63 (72.8%) |
| Record vs Top 10 on HC, Bo5 only | 16-17 (48.5%) | 39-15 (72.2%) |
| Record vs Top 10, USO | 7-5 (58.3%) | 14-8 (63.6%) |
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
But he also made the line judge choke.You think that was the only time in his career he snapped in frustration?
Or rather like 1071st one?
That was his great sin.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed?Right, whenever Nadal loses is because he's injured of course
Let's also ignore the fact that Nadal has been extremely fortunate in his USO runs, where the draws have largely fallen apart around him, specially in 2017 and 2019 where he beat ONE Top 10 player.
Nadal's record against Top 10 players on hard courts is totally pedestrian, barely better than 50/50, which puts into context just how fortunate he has been in the USO:
Record Nadal Djokovic Record vs Top 10 on HC, overall 74-73 (50.3%) 169-63 (72.8%) Record vs Top 10 on HC, Bo5 only 16-17 (48.5%) 39-15 (72.2%) Record vs Top 10, USO 7-5 (58.3%) 14-8 (63.6%)
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Very "fun" joke.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
It wasn’t about being the favorite or not being the favorite. It was merely the fact that it was a big match. Thiem has a notorious habit of underperforming in the biggest matches and this was no exception. Only here, he was up against an opponent who couldn’t even expose that.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Djokovic was high on confidence heading into that tournament. He had not lost a match so he was the favourite. Not a lock but the favourite slightly over thiem who had a great year.
In my opinion the biggest obstacle of that tournament for Novak apart from the obvious DQ was adapting to playing with no crowd. Djoko said he had a hard time dealing with it which is understandable and it’s harder to feed our energy and pump yourself up on big points.
I feel he would have been the 60/40 favourite over thiem had he made final.
jl809
Legend
Cmon guys, there is no comparison between Thiem's level in the USO 20 final and his level in the AO 20 final + 1st 2 sets of the RG 19 final and you know it. The latter 2 were below what we know he is capable of producing, but still competitive. The former would have seen him double bagelled by Djokodal.
Literally in Thiem's own words: "We both didn’t face one of the big three, so I guess that was in the back of the head for both of us. That’s why we were on nerves. Was a very good chance for the both of us."
jl809
Legend
Are we really doing this **** on here as well? Djokovic's record vs the top 10 on grass is 64% and yet he has 7 Wimbledons. This is despite some statpadding vs Old Fed and getting Nadal indoors. Go figure. Every player has a stupid stat like this.
The comment you were replying to was dumb too though tbf
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