TennisProphet2024
New User
Obviously, Djokovic was comprehensively outplayed by Alcaraz last Sunday in the Wimbledon final. But what do you think was the biggest reason for his loss against Carlos?
Biggest factor for Djokovic's loss in the 2024 Wimbledon final?
- Thread starter TennisProphet2024
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Technology Ruined Tennis
Hall of Fame
He ate same bad grass on the practice courts while killing time during his demon walkover. Took a few days to hit his gut.
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
djoker won sw19 with efficient serve and great returns during his peak (e.g. defeating fed)
since 2020, he won them with playing against shxt players
in 2023, he played carlos who was close to a complete player, loss in 5 sets
when carlos played far more better (even above his normally good level), djoker was fully outplayed though we can see that when carlos' level slightly dropped, djoker had a better 3rd set score
since 2020, he won them with playing against shxt players
in 2023, he played carlos who was close to a complete player, loss in 5 sets
when carlos played far more better (even above his normally good level), djoker was fully outplayed though we can see that when carlos' level slightly dropped, djoker had a better 3rd set score
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
If the players are so bad but only one player over the span of 5 years can win there then maybe the explanation lies elsewhere
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
All of the above? Getting blown out like that can only happen with a convergence of numerous factors.
It feels obvious to blame the knee more than anything, but then you remember that this was actually his best result at a tournament all year. He's been in horrible form the whole season even when healthy.
It feels obvious to blame the knee more than anything, but then you remember that this was actually his best result at a tournament all year. He's been in horrible form the whole season even when healthy.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Game evolves, so even with all that extra years to practice and game even more super duper experience, it was too much to term the tides.
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
i am not saying djoker is not a great player; otherwise how could he defeat fed?
those players he defeated at sw19, if not all, majority were shxt era players.
the reason why only djoker and then carlos won, it is because they are great players but at the same time large number of shxt era players minimised their opportunities to get defeated
those players he defeated at sw19, if not all, majority were shxt era players.
the reason why only djoker and then carlos won, it is because they are great players but at the same time large number of shxt era players minimised their opportunities to get defeated
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
And how would you know that? Please don’t tell me the “eye test”. I can only take so much
BigThreeForever
Semi-Pro
If you voted that Alcaraz is better than 2011/2015 Djokovic, you're either trolling or permanently brain dead from being online too much and microplastics in your food and drinks.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Both first and second options are true. Djokovic was undercooked and was coming off injury. He's still an elite mover and has fine speed.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
With more experience Djokovic will bounce back next year
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
He went from Literally NOBODY to Mugsetti to Carlos the Shepherd.
That is like going from England's beach to Omaha beach.
That is like going from England's beach to Omaha beach.
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
And how would you know not that? Please don’t tell me the “eye test”. I can only take so much
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
You are making the assertion. It’s you that has the burden of proof.
Kralingen
Bionic Poster
We all meet the second criterion sadly
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Speeks 4urselv me do juz fyne.
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
i cannot list more than five players across five years are serious contenders at sw10, show me if you can have more than 5
And if you would not agree, please don’t tell me the “eye test”. I can only take so much
BigThreeForever
Semi-Pro
A fart from 2011 Djokovic alone would humble Alcaraz.
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
If the Big 3 had never existed some of these “mugs” would be Wimbledon champs and have their names engraved in the trophy
Don Felder
Semi-Pro
The first game set the tone. Djoker wasn’t feeling confident in his body and after seeing how much that first game took, he knew he wasn’t up for the grind on the day. Partly being 37, partly the knee.
He can still win a slam, but, like Fed and Nadal at the end, things will have to break just right for him. Alcaraz having a mental vacation and spraying his way to a 3R or 4R loss to somebody like Tiafoe or Fritz, sinner going down in a physical heap, and some lesser guy in a final. I don’t think Djoker has very good odds of beating a near-top form Alc or Sinner at this point.
None of this is a surprise. If you looked beneath the surface last year of being one set from a calendar slam, you could see it was becoming a major Herculean lift for him to beat Carlos or Sinner or even some of the other better top guys. Everything had to go right to get Carlos at FO and Cinci, and Djoker was visibly gassed in a lot of the rallies with Med in the USO final. And obviously sinner began solving the Djoker riddle in a big way at the end of last year, making it look like Djoker didn’t have too many answers all of a sudden.
Time is undefeated.
It’s been the treat of a lifetime getting to watch the big three for over two decades.
He can still win a slam, but, like Fed and Nadal at the end, things will have to break just right for him. Alcaraz having a mental vacation and spraying his way to a 3R or 4R loss to somebody like Tiafoe or Fritz, sinner going down in a physical heap, and some lesser guy in a final. I don’t think Djoker has very good odds of beating a near-top form Alc or Sinner at this point.
None of this is a surprise. If you looked beneath the surface last year of being one set from a calendar slam, you could see it was becoming a major Herculean lift for him to beat Carlos or Sinner or even some of the other better top guys. Everything had to go right to get Carlos at FO and Cinci, and Djoker was visibly gassed in a lot of the rallies with Med in the USO final. And obviously sinner began solving the Djoker riddle in a big way at the end of last year, making it look like Djoker didn’t have too many answers all of a sudden.
Time is undefeated.
It’s been the treat of a lifetime getting to watch the big three for over two decades.
BigThreeForever
Semi-Pro
Berrettini would be a contender if he didn't call off after 2021, and his issue in 2022. Sp that's one wrong, even with his backhand, his serve and forehand was good.
bnjkn
Professional
Like others said, game is evolving too quickly. By now the level is high enough that even peak Djokovic would lose, and peak Federer would basically look like a rec player if he were to face this Alcaraz. By the end of this season even Alcaraz will probably be a little obsolete too.
Kralingen
Bionic Poster
Idk he lost a set to peak Tomic
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
i am saying since 2020, who and where are the big 3?
inflation_era
Professional
False dawn exposed!
BigThreeForever
Semi-Pro
Well that's obvious, peak Tomic is the best there's ever been.
BigThreeForever
Semi-Pro
Peak Federer would be a baby bottle to the greatest evolved tennis player yet, don't you know?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is 37. Age is a big factor, in terms of it being harder to recover from match to match, and harder to maintain consistency. Alcaraz is 21, the reigning Wimbledon champion and confident, and at that age it is easier to shrug off tiredness and injury niggles. Even the knee surgery, it's something far harder to recover from at age 37 when we're talking about the highest level of professional tennis, compared to what it would be for a 21-year-old.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Exactly. At that time, Djokovic was 20 (almost 21), and Nadal was 21 (almost 22).
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
He was out played end of story, he’s already stated this.
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
If there were no big 3, or if they had retired much younger, then someone else would have won those Wimbledon. Someone today we consider a “mug”
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Simple its because of knee surgery, similar like Rafa in the last 2 years. Healthy body 2 majors won in 2022 , with destroyed body 0 in the last 9 majors.
NYTennisfan
Hall of Fame
Alcaraz is too good and Djokovic is too old. It's as simple as that. It's like Federer v. Agassi at the '05 US Open
darthrafa
Hall of Fame
how do these ifs have any thing related to "since 2020, he won them with playing against shxt players"
GabeT
Talk Tennis Guru
Because:
A. You have no way of determining if they are shxt players and
B. absent the Big 3 (in this case Novak) some of those same “shxt” players would be Wimbledon champs today
langley
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Just saying, I think they easily stack up to Carlos here.
TennisXpert@2023
Professional
He couldn’t beat Alcaraz playing average or below average tennis because Alcaraz has the game and confidence. Djokovic’s draw was easy and his fan thought Djokovic was in good form. If he played someone with less game and confidence, he would have won.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Peak Tomic was a thing. I assure you.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Go away from here sane reasonable person.
And take your civil, measured, perfectly acceptable, common sense, non-incendiary take with you.
This place isn’t for you, psycho.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
The Alcaraz we saw yesterday would be destroyed by peak Alcaraz.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
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Federev
G.O.A.T.
Hairdal was incredible.
That was an awesome match. From both.
Nothing to bow down to “today’s tennis” for.
You could put either of those guys on the field today and they would be absolutely crushing it.
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TennisXpert@2023
Professional
It’s real recency bias. Djokovic fans still thought he had a chance to win the title. They are trying to save face by saying the Alcaraz wouldn’t beat 2011 Djokovic.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
That he was comprehensively outplayed. The question seems to imply that one can just flip a switch and be able to turn things around yet the "opponent" isn't capable of doing the same. They both made adjustments throughout the match and Alcaraz did it better. It really is as simple as that.
langley
Hall of Fame
tbf, I also think McEnroe has the best touch at the net that’s ever been seen. 1984 mac was taking names.
langley
Hall of Fame
I’m a Djoker fan through and through. but I don’t think any Djoker fan seriously thought he was going to upset alcaraz, I hoped sure but I didn’t think so for a second. I would’ve bet against him before he had knee surgery, let alone after. Also 2011 Djokovic would wipe the floor with this Alcaraz. Also 2006 fed and 2008 nadal too.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
2023 Djokovic almost beat him in the same place. And beat him weeks later in Cincy.
Alcaraz was playing very close to his best level in both matches.
So I agree - I don’t think it’s far fetched to speculate (that’s all it can be) that 2011 Novak would beat him.
But I also don’t think 2011 Novak was the best tennis playing we’ve ever seen. He was one point from having a two slam season and losing twice to Federer at both RG (which he did) and the USO (which he also did).
I think Federer in his peak years of 2004-2007 could have handled 2011 Novak much better than 2011 Federer did.
But of course it’s all speculation.
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