Billie Jean King v Serena Williams--how is it even a question?

[MotherMarjorie]

Billie Jean King:

12 Grand Slam Singles Titles (6 Wimbledon)
29 Grand Slam Doubles/Mixed Titles (14 Wimbledon)
Career Grand Slam
Career Singles Titles: 129 (89 in Open Era)
Career Grand Slam Titles (singles, doubles, mixed): 41

1973 Winner of The Battle of The Sexes (vs Bobby Riggs): In front of 30,492 spectators and a worldwide television audience estimated at 50 million people in 37 countries.

Founder of the Women's Tennis Association, the Women's Sports Foundation, and World Team Tennis, which she founded with her former husband, Lawrence King.

Serena Jameka Williams:

12 Grand Slam Singles Titles (3 Wimbledon)
16 Grand Slam Doubles/Mixed Titles (5 Wimbledon)
Career Grand Slam
Career Singles Titles: 36
Career Grand Slam Titles (singles, doubles, mixed): 28
2-time Olympic Gold Medalist (doubles)

Part owner of the Miami Dolphins, owner of Aneres, helped to fund the construction of the Serena Williams Secondary School in Matooni, Kenya.

 

[davey25]

I actually agree. At this point King should rank above Serena in history, even though King once admited herself if she played the Williams they would have to hit 4 double faults for her to win. However Serena has many more years ahead of her and that could certainly change. Either way King and Serena both easily rank ahead of Seles and Henin, the two most overrated female players on TW.

Of course King's greatness goes beyond the tennis court. While not the greatest female tennis player of all time she might well be the most important one there ever was. The sport owes her a huge amount of gratitude for all she has done.

 

[TMF]

King > Serena. The answer to this question is pretty clear, not as murky as the question about Serena vs. Seles.

 

[ronalditop]

LOL at the pic you chose of serena.

 

[PSNELKE]

Yeah but if Serena wins a few more Slams which is pretty likely Serena would be higher ranked IMO.
Even though I don´t like Serena.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

King > Serena. The answer to this question is pretty clear, not as murky as the question about Serena vs. Seles.

In fairness, this comparison was more approrpriate than the Serena/Seles thread, because both women in this instance hold the same amount of GS singles titles. Beyond that, there's not much helping S. Williams historically. Besides, Mother Marjorie's thread is prettier than Ms. Davey's.

Well, as much importance as some give Wimbledon in this forum, King trounces S. Williams. S. Williams' five Australian Open singles wins (which some call the AO historically insignificant), given that standard, artificially inflates S. Williams' GS singles totals, the only area that she matches Billie Jean.

It wouldn't matter if S. Williams won 10 more Grand Slam singles titles, the contributions Billie Jean King have made to the sport of tennis far out trump anything S. Williams has done to date, or will probably ever give back to the sport.

There is a reason the US Open venue is named after Billie Jean King. I'm doubtful S. Williams will ever be afforded the same honor.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

LOL at the pic you chose of serena.

Yes, it is a summer of love for S. Williams.

 

[PSNELKE]

Who the hell cares what she did for tennis.
It´s a question who has more reached in tennis.
Until now you´re right that BJk is the better player.
But Serenas Career isn´t over yet.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Who the hell cares what she did for tennis.
It´s a question who has more reached in tennis.
Until now you´re right that BJk is the better player.
But Serenas Career isn´t over yet.

How ignorant. Billie Jean King's efforts not only advanced women's tennis, but women's sports in general.

Like I said, there's kinda no way S. Williams would ever be able to eclipse the career and life of Billie Jean King.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Yeah but if Serena wins a few more Slams which is pretty likely Serena would be higher ranked IMO.
Even though I don´t like Serena.

Highly unlikely. Next up would be Navratilova/Evert. And no one really wants to go there with Mother Marjorie. You betcha!

 

[PSNELKE]

How ignorant. Billie Jean King's efforts not only advanced women's tennis, but women's sports in general.

Like I said, there's kinda no way S. Williams would ever be able to eclipse the career and life of Billie Jean King.

Come on mate.
Everbody knows that Serena has nothing done for WTA Tennis or Women sports much less she ever will.
That´s why we should judge them by their achievement in which Serena is able to overtake Billie Jean King.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Come on mate.
Everbody knows that Serena has nothing done for WTA Tennis or Women sports much less she ever will.
That´s why we should judge them by their achievement in which Serena is able to overtake Billie Jean King.

The only conceivable area that S. Williams would have an opportunity to surpass Billie Jean would be total GS singles titles. Beyond that, S. Williams is pretty toast.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Either way King and Serena both easily rank ahead of Seles and Henin, the two most overrated female players on TW.

Don't you mean Venus Williams and Martina Hingis?

 

[PSNELKE]

Yes but the doubles tournament was more prestigious bach then today nobody really cars about doubs. anymore.

 

[statto]

I see what you did there MM. :???:

If you're going to mention BJK's battle of the sexes, shouldn't you mention Serena's against chain-smoking, beer-swilling, Karsten Braasch (6-1 blowout BTW). To be fair to Serena, he was only in his 30s, whereas Riggs was in his 50s (though I can't imagine Johnny Mac breaking a sweat beating her either).

I actually agree. At this point King should rank above Serena in history

Didn't you put King below Serena in your women's top ten list?

 

[MotherMarjorie]

Come on mate.
Everbody knows that Serena has nothing done for WTA Tennis or Women sports much less she ever will.
That´s why we should judge them by their achievement in which Serena is able to overtake Billie Jean King.

Yes but the doubles tournament was more prestigious bach then today nobody really cars about doubs. anymore.

Fine, exclude doubles.

The only category that S. Williams approaches Billie Jean is GS singles, where they are tied. When you look at total singles titles, even career wins, Billie Jean dominates. And consider that five of S. Williams GS titles are at the Australian Open (rule made by Ms Davey that the AO is less prestigious of all GS events), and six of Billie Jean's are at Wimbledon (rule made by Ms Davey that Wimbledon is the most prestigious), Billie Jean still wins.

Didn't you get the memo? Billie Jean always wins. Ask Bobby.

 

[MotherMarjorie]

I see what you did there MM. :???:
If you're going to mention BJK's battle of the sexes, shouldn't you mention Serena's against chain-smoking, beer-swilling, Karsten Braasch (6-1 blowout BTW). To be fair to Serena, he was only in his 30s, whereas Riggs was in his 50s (though I can't imagine Johnny Mac breaking a sweat beating her either).

But Bobby Riggs was a former Wimbledon singles champion, which trumps all other tournaments /sarcasm.

 

[PSNELKE]

Fine, exclude doubles.

The only category that S. Williams approaches Billie Jean is GS singles, where they are tied. When you look at total singles titles, even career wins, Billie Jean dominates. And consider that five of S. Williams GS titles are at the Australian Open (rule made by Ms Davey that the AO is less prestigious of all GS events), and six of Billie Jean's are at Wimbledon, Billie Jean still wins.

Didn't you get the memo? Billie Jean always wins. Ask Bobby.

HAHa you´re great.
BJK played way more tourneys iback then.
Who the hell told her not to play the AO?

 

[davey25]

King is another that really should have more than 12 slams in singles. I say that since she hardly ever played the Australian Open like most non Australians back then. She likely would have won atleast 4 there based on her records on grass at Wimbledon and the U.S Open . She was lucky to win her only French since Evert didnt play, and she was hammered by even a kiddie Evert on clay whenever they met. Still her slam count really should be more than 12.

Serena has to definitely add to her current achievements to surpass King but I think she probably will. Serena looks like she has quite a few strong years left in her.

It is worth noting though King said a few years ago about the only way she would win a game vs the Williams sisters is if they hit 4 double faults in a row. She realizes how much the strength and athleticsm of tennis have evolved since her playing days.

 

[Tanya]

The only category that S. Williams approaches Billie Jean is GS singles, where they are tied. When you look at total singles titles, even career wins, Billie Jean dominates. And consider that five of S. Williams GS titles are at the Australian Open (rule made by Ms Davey that the AO is less prestigious of all GS events), and six of Billie Jean's are at Wimbledon (rule made by Ms Davey that Wimbledon is the most prestigious), Billie Jean still wins.

To attempt to be fair... I believe what Davey said in regards to the AO was that in the past that tournament was not held in high regards. Thus when mentioning it in the context of "distant" past players (I dunno, before the 80s I suppose?, not really certain on the timeline) the AO is an artificial inflator of careers, as you call it, I suppose. However, I believe that from the 90s on the importance of the AO is the same as all the other slams. I don't necessarily agree with Davey and the others that Wimbledon is more important - a major tournament is a major tournament. Therefore I think Serena's slam count is not "inflated" in any way, lest you should make the claim that she won them against a week field. But then again that's arguable.

 

[powerangle]

There will almost always be a case of "but.." when comparing Serena with other all-time greats. Serena may eclipse some of them in grand slam singles titles but she will fall way, way short in almost all other categories. Serena will never be the GOAT.