Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Yeah, we need to do more to protect health so that they can play Grand Slams
This is like treating a person with a broken leg by shooting him in the head. Sure the leg ain't bothering him anymore but he's also pretty dead
BJK - men should not play 5 sets at Grand Slams anymore.
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This is like treating a person with a broken leg by shooting him in the head. Sure the leg ain't bothering him anymore but he's also pretty dead
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I want to hear the opinion of Borg, Laver and McEnroe on this.
They seem very eager to be in the center of the events when they have to do some cheap marketing or stir the things a bit for a bit of attention.
Let's see how they react when the future of the tour is questioned in such an absurd manner.
They seem very eager to be in the center of the events when they have to do some cheap marketing or stir the things a bit for a bit of attention.
Let's see how they react when the future of the tour is questioned in such an absurd manner.
C
Chadillac
Guest
Makes you wonder if its worth posting anymore. Seems like a waste of time when half the stuff is deleted
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Just stating the two are linked due to timing. Serena says men should advocate for equal pay while on the same exact day there is an article about BJK saying men should play BO3. In the Serena thread I believe OP stated that they saw it on TV. There's also an article on it today as well. Must be linked IMO. BJK felt like she had to say something since Serena did. Atleast that's the way I'm perceiving it.
In this case, to protect health, we need to eliminate some tournaments. But it's a case of money, and when there is money nobody from officials care of player's health.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
We need to ditch other tournaments than Slams, if anything. I want my 4 Slams, I don't want 13 ATP 1000s.
It may be that a single especially grueling match is more of a health risk than the cumulative impact of a half-dozen or so somewhat longer matches. In fact, I've seen a lot of online tennis forum commentary speculating that the 2017 French Open semifinal between Murray and Wawrinka ended up physically destroying both players! I don't see how anyone who acknowledges such a disaster as a potential outcome of an overly long match could simultaneously assert, "But we must never even consider retreating from the three-out-of-five standard!" Well, maybe we should at least consider it.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
I looked up another source for the interview. You can't make this up.
"Personally, I don't want the men playing five sets anymore. I think it takes too much out of them," King said at a WTA Finals event timed to coincide with International Women's Day.
"Like one time the players played in the Australian Open final. It took six hours. They could hardly walk off the court. I guarantee you that it took a year off their careers."
She guarantees it guys. Just take her word for it. Rofl.
She apparently wants to combine the ATP and WTA tours. Yeah, let's let the WTA ride the coattails of the ATP even more.
King said team tennis, where men's and women's events are played consecutively with cumulative scoring, is a better way.
http://www.independent.com.mt/artic...lay-3-setters-at-major-tournaments-6736185942
"Personally, I don't want the men playing five sets anymore. I think it takes too much out of them," King said at a WTA Finals event timed to coincide with International Women's Day.
"Like one time the players played in the Australian Open final. It took six hours. They could hardly walk off the court. I guarantee you that it took a year off their careers."
She guarantees it guys. Just take her word for it. Rofl.
She apparently wants to combine the ATP and WTA tours. Yeah, let's let the WTA ride the coattails of the ATP even more.
King said team tennis, where men's and women's events are played consecutively with cumulative scoring, is a better way.
http://www.independent.com.mt/artic...lay-3-setters-at-major-tournaments-6736185942
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Well duh, it's the international women's day, and as you can see in the article, BJK was indeed touching upon issues concerning the women, most likely in response to questions she was posed by journalists — so this is indeed the link why the BBC chose to publish this precisely today. The piece isn't written or published by King herself, so she probably had little to do with it in that sense.
There's a fair stretch from this to suggesting that she only argues this because she thinks the men playing BO5 makes the women look bad. That may be her underlying motivation, but there's certainly no evidence of it in the text as far as I can see, so the men who are vehemently insisting that this is the case are probably saying more about themselves than they are about King.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
If you can't connect the dots and recognize such a transparent motivation for saying something, that isn't my problem. You apparently don't understand people very well.
As I said in my above post, she even wants to combine the men's and women's tours. She wants to eliminate any difference between them.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
So anyone that insinuates that women are being insecure are the ones that are being insecure??
Why does there have to be a day dedicated to it? If women want equality, then there shouldn't holidays celebrating the total opposite. Men know that women have a voice for godsakes. No need for a reminder around every corner. It's 2018.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
So anyone that insinuates that women are being insecure are the ones that are being insecure??
Who said this? Where?
yes, not like there is any injustice against women any place in the entire WORLD that's worth putting the spotlight on, hue hue
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
4R and above both men and women play BO 5
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Thrasysphus, can you tell me, what is Justice?
George Turner
Hall of Fame
Gosh no. There's so many lopsided matches on the womens tour, BO5 would make it worse. Remember when Bouchard reached a Wimbledon final?
I actually said somewhere else the first couple of rounds could be reduced to best of three. The first couple of rounds are quite boring anyway, the sooner a Nadal vs Young match is over with the better. Would produce more upsets aswell.
Anyway, i'm going to go read some more BJK views on equality. Such a fascinating topic.
I would like to see a tournament like this once in my life.
For example, first round match: Serena Williams vs Dr Ivo.
Equal prize money is built into the system.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
This is Billie Jean King's vision for the future of professional tennis:
World TeamTennis (WTT) is a mixed-gender professional tennis league played with a team format in the United States, which was founded in 1973.
The WTT was organized and started with Billie Jean King securing the professional tennis players on the women's side. Dr. Bloom, along with Wilt Chamberlain and Arthur Ashe, secured the professional players on the men's side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_TeamTennis
She's totally just looking out for the health of ATP players guys. Has nothing to do with wanting to eliminate the differences between the men's and women's tours.
World TeamTennis (WTT) is a mixed-gender professional tennis league played with a team format in the United States, which was founded in 1973.
The WTT was organized and started with Billie Jean King securing the professional tennis players on the women's side. Dr. Bloom, along with Wilt Chamberlain and Arthur Ashe, secured the professional players on the men's side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_TeamTennis
She's totally just looking out for the health of ATP players guys. Has nothing to do with wanting to eliminate the differences between the men's and women's tours.
ohiostate124
Professional
No Billy. In fact, women should play best of 5.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
Feel free to watch a World Team Tennis event then. God knows they probably need the fans. I don't think a team format belongs in tennis. Mixed gender or not.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Most of them would be mortified at the prospect. The average fitness level of female players (even in a relative sense only) is far lower than it is for men. There is also the other factor that because woman play generally less effective tennis (less able to win points with winners) they would do comparatively more running which would make it even harder for them to get through 7 5-set matches at majors.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
In some places of course it's going on. We are talking millionaire tennis players right now that don't lose a wink of sleep at night over their respective females suffering in such places.
You in your previous post.
Gosh no. There's so many lopsided matches on the womens tour, BO5 would make it worse. Remember when Bouchard reached a Wimbledon final?
I actually said somewhere else the first couple of rounds could be reduced to best of three. The first couple of rounds are quite boring anyway, the sooner a Nadal vs Young match is over with the better. Would produce more upsets aswell.
Anyway, i'm going to go read some more BJK views on equality. Such a fascinating topic.
It could produce Bo5 classics that are lacking on women’s tour. Men’s tour is very famous for those too, besides many other things. It would take 4 matches in a whole year where they’d have to play Bo5, and some of them brag about being able to do so in all rounds, so I don’t think they would collapse during a 5th set. Men have to work on their fitness too to be able to handle longer matches, but women could do it. And women’s tennis could gain more attention if they play 5 sets thrilles.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Ah, the old girl just cannot let her twisted dreams go.
She figured she can achieve whatever she wants, the hell with the sport.
CentreCourt
Rookie
Big Jock Knew, I believe.
CentreCourt
Rookie
I say leave it as it is - there's an argument for saying women should play best of 5 in terms of earning their money, but I don't think I want to see a best of 5 women's match enough to justify the argument.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I have often made the argument that you could have BO3 for both in the first four rounds or up to QF and BO5 for both in the business end of slams. Of course, the purists have always shot down this argument and I do understand that it will no longer be the same in terms of comparing with earlier men's slams. But earlier there was no equal prize money either. It is not fair to the men to not have parity in the format. Doesn't happen in most other games, equal pay or no equal pay.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
I'm not a purist at all. I think hawkeye should make all line calls.
But your proposition would have potentially severe consequences such that players with poor stamina could make it through the early rounds only to bounce out as soon as it turns from Bo3 to Bo5. People like Alexander Zverev.
This isn't like the NBA in which each match is the same duration whether the playoff series is Bo5 or Bo7. Every match in a tennis tournament needs to be the same. I never liked the Bo5 finals for that reason and I'm glad the ATP changed it.
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WTT does not have male vs female matches, except for mixed doubles.
I am talking about a real tournament where players can duke it out regardless of gender.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
My bad. I misread the post I responded to. In that case, I agree. It would be funny, but I wouldn't want to see it more than once.
There have been a couple cases of similar things happening in other sports. Female players who thought they were too good for women's leagues. Sorenstam in golf and Wickenheiser in hockey. Didn't work out for either of them IIRC.
If it did happen, I would want the male players to go all out. No mercy. Like when the kids from South Park played the Detroit Red Wings in an NHL match.
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No problem!
Thundergod
Hall of Fame
The only problem I have with that is that you are under the assumption that the top 10 or so never get knocked out in the first 3 rounds. Outside of the Big 4, this is usually not the case and in a few years, they won't be here.
The Big 4 skew a lot of stats.
tacou
G.O.A.T.
Hm? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I am pro five setters. But Nadal, Murray, Novak, Stan and numerous other players are injured. And in any case, the sport can and should always do things like review the calendar, make surfaces easier on the body, invest in physical therapy, etc. It is in the interest of the sport, and its athletes.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
Yeah. Berdych lost a 1st round match in a slam pretty much every year of his prime. And he was one of the most consistent players outside of the Big 4.
2010 - Lost to Llodra 1R USO
2011 - Lost to Robert 1R RG (after going up 2 sets)
2012 - Lost to Gulbis 1R Wimbledon
2013 - Lost to Monfils 1R RG
FHtennisman
Professional
However, with the slam seedings going back to top 16 only from 2019 that increases the chances of more competitive matches in the earlier rounds - so the 'cannon fodder' element of journeyman being dismantled by ease may reduce. Draws will also undoubtedly become harder for top players, one particular case in point is that for the AO 17 draw, had 16 seeds only existed then Federer could've potentially had an early round match with a Murray/Novak/Nadal type player.
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Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Fine then make it BO3 all the way through. I have no problem. I am only proposing BO5 for the later stages as a compromise solution.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Almost everyone thinks that men's matches are taking too long, even if they want them to stay at BO5, so her opinion is not that 'out there'.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
The problem is more that she thinks anyone wants to hear her opinion on the matter.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
then again, look at novak, andy, stan now...she might have a point. no question the insane level of grindatude those guys reached was an unsustainable proposition.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
She was actually a champion tennis player, so her opinions are worth more than the mansplaining that goes on here.
D
Deleted member 742196
Guest
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
I have rarely heard that complaint really. I have heard more of the opposite. That there should be more best of 5 matches outside of slams. IE Masters and WTF finals.
The problem with excessive match time in some matches has more to do with time wasting between points than anything. Like in the 2012 AO final.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't go that far. I have great respect for what she brought to tennis, women's tennis in particular. That being said, we can all disagree with her view about men's matches in Grand Slams. If any change is to be made, make women's semi finals and finals best of 5 in Grand Slams.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The slow courts/long matches complaint is widespread even if you haven't heard of it. Wasting time between points increases as the matches get longer.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Hear, hear!
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