Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by forehand_dude, Jan 2, 2012.
Borg isn't even a clay GOAT at this point...
Nadal is more accomplished than Borg on clay at this stage, but matches between those two would be epic. Borg was so much more than a great clay courter. He didn't play the 1977 FO, yet in '78 won the FO while only losing 32 games, so he was a masterful clay courter but he had great surface versatility in that era of varied surface speeds. Rosewall, Borg, and Nadal are the three greatest players on clay in my opinion. Borg won his sixth FO open title in '81 at 25 while skipping it once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKQVdZNsyuQ (thanks Krosero)
Wilander won the Australian Open when it was on hard grass. I think Borg could have won several times if he played the tournament. It is surprising he never won the U.S. Open.
longevity does count. had federer retired after 2008 he would not be the GOAT either.
it was borgs own choice to retire.
That's presuming that Federer is the "GOAT", but I agree that longevity is a factor to consider. In my book, you have players such as Gonzalez, Rosewall, Laver, Borg, Sampras, Federer, and Nadal. Each has big pluses and a few minuses that you can hone in on if you choose to. Longevity is something that you can point to with Rosewall, Gonzalez, Connors, and now Federer for example. Borg played a ton of matches even through 25, winning over 100 total titles and 63 "official" titles. Look at his match totals. Borg played about the same number of total matches as Nadal has (though Nadal is 27 now and has played a heavy schedule from his teenage years). That's not even counting a heavy unofficial schedule filled with invitationals/exos and other such tournaments like AKAI in Australia. Plus, it was Borg's choice to retire just as it was the Tour's choice to demand that he qualify for the majors such as Wimbledon and the French Open in 1982. Suppose they asked Nadal to do that when he was away from the Tour for seven months? That wasn't an option given to him and it was a such a bad decision in many ways. The WCT and ATP split in 1983, so it was a time of political turmoil with the Tour.
Majors Won/Majors played for Borg, Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic:
Federer - 17/58
Nadal - 13/36
Anyway, Connors winning 80 Dallas and specially Mac winning 79 Dallas ( crushing both Connors and Borg) are among the greatest achievements of both years.We should respect it as it really happened.
They were great achievements no doubt. Yet, the WCT Finals really peaked in about 1975-1976, and of course Laver-Rosewall was epic. Yet, the Volvo Masters was really gaining momentum. The 1979 and 1980 (played in Jan. 80 and 81) Masters Cup YEC tourneys had deeper fields and were the biggest indoor tourneys in those years with Borg, McEnroe, Connors, and Lendl chasing those titles in January.
Huge events both Madison and Reunion Arena.it was very exciting, in the middle and at the end of the season to wait for those special showcases.Dallas had the advantage that you could not take a match unseriously since it was a knock out system while there were some unsubstantial rr matches ( with tanks from Borg,Connors,Mc Enroe and Lendl among others) during the Masters tournaments..
The fact that the WCT Finals took part in early May also helped sinc eplayers were just rearing up while, some years, it was tough for the players who played a big non official schedule in December and early January to be eager and ready for the Masters.
The 1979 fields and the 1980 fields were just extremely tough and the fast turf, IMO, helped a lot into visualizing the great variety of styles.
Open Era GOAT he is
Definitely could have been if he would have played longer.
Borgs anticipation and movement around the court was amazing.
Add to that quality ground strokes and a simple, though very effective serve - and it's difficult not to rate him as one of the greats.
Number of slams or tournaments is only part of the story.
The only true measure of any player is how they were rated by those that played with and against them.
In Borgs case he was rated very highly.
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