Blatant Cheating in USTA Tournament

dandruffkb said:
He legit told me to "ask them" (bystanders/spectators) complete strangers, and they all told him it was in,
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dandruffkb said:
I hit a short angle with my approach shot, and I can promise you at least 5+ that were 10000000% in (not even on/outside of the line) were in, they would be called out.
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Bit hard to believe it was that blatant if there were spectators. Unless they were all his mates someone is going to say something about consistent bad calls.
 
mauricem said:
Bit hard to believe it was that blatant if there were spectators. Unless they were all his mates someone is going to say something about consistent bad calls.
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Yeah, I see it in multiple ways. I think there were genuine close calls, but 99% of close calls would go his way and then there were the other majority that I'm addressing in this post that seemed more blatant/hooks at more crucial points when the ball was well-in.

Also, for just a random NTRP USTA tournament being played alongside with a junior tournament, I mean what would a random spectator (kids/their parents) get out of interjecting and saying something in our match? We asked them like twice or thrice for simple confirmation and just kept going.

Pretty confident he had no one that he personally knew watching.
 
Some players have a reputation for bad calling because they're always coincidentally involved in disputes over bad calls. A few years ago I was unseeded and playing in the British clay national seniors championships and watching a quarterfinal match as I had to play the winner. As I was a foreigner I knew none of the British guys - one of my friends said you've got to watch this guy as he always gives dodgy calls so he dragged me to the match. About 40 people watching or so and within 5 minutes of being there, the player calls a double fault with the second serve ball of his opponent landing just inside the line. British stiff upper lip, etc and nobody says anything - I can't resist say loudly you can't be serious about that call. All of a sudden the server gets a bit of gumption to question the receiver and actually gets a second attempt. Anyways, there was no other dodgy business as all of a sudden there was someone watching unafraid to say something. The next day I had to play the dodgy caller. It was hilarious and he was a mental basket case - he was so scared I would say something that he even played some of my balls that were out. All ended well and I won the final on the last day vs the British no 1.
 
Tennis gods work in mysterious ways...

Played a match for my 4.0 flex league today... this guy was polar opposites of the guy I started the post for... every ball seemed in, I felt so bad. I would do him favors and give him some outs because they were like 200 miles out or even wide...

I somehow "aced" him at least 3 times with my serve landing in the middle of the service line and base line...

I won, and I know it's his responsibility to call correctly, but I feel like I called more of my shots out than he did. I took payback on the wrong person unintentionally...
 
Nostradamus said:
So like i mean seriously,,,, When and When will the electronic line calling come to the USTA matches and even club matches....................We need it desperately,, even more than the Pros. these idiots adults that cheat will also use Reverse psychology on you as well... and try to make you look like you are cheating.... all the while they are planning the times when they can cheat and get away with it..................... :( :mad:
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Seems like some companies are working on it. I was asking about this and there's something called Swingvision that uses a cell phone (Apple only) and an app for line calls on your side.

There's another one called Baseline vision that looks more advanced, but cost $2,000 and will call lines immediately (no need to check a watch or app) on both sides of the court.

If they had some kind of auto line calling system on the court I'd play singles league matches again. The cheating and having to call lines along with playing is just too much stress for me.
 
bobleenov1963 said:
. I told my wife about what happened when I got home and my wife had a conversation with the kid father's boss the following day. Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job. From that point forward, the cheating stopped every time I saw that kid in tournaments.
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So….

You saw some kid cheat
Told your wife
She went to the boss of the dad of the cheater
The boss took her word for it and thought to himself ‘this is something I have to get involved in’
Boss spoke to the dad of the cheater
Boss threatened to fire dad of cheater
Dad of cheater spoke to kid
All lived happily ever after.

You should sell the rights to this
 
To me, this is when someone's character shows (or in the case of juniors is developed). I will always call my own ball out if I see it 100% (not 1st serves lol) and because I do so I engender goodwill if I question my opponent's call. If someone is repeatedly hooking you they are either blind or cheating and the answer is to request an official as many times as needed. Literally never need to be arguing anything, and if it is so blatant I think retiring is 100% the right call. I agree with @ChaelAZ that you need to test your own vision too - put some balls around the baseline and service line and go to the other side of the court and see what they look like. High level players know when their balls are out.
 
First make sure if he is doing it on purpose or if he is really bad at making calls. Most cheaters make bad calls not (only) to get a free point, but more importantly, to get in your head. They watch you getting more and more worked up after every bad call and missing more balls.

I play mostly on clay fortunately, so i can make them point out a mark if i question a (not the first or second) bad call. If they are obviously cheating and will not stop, i will shake their hand and walk off court if it is a friendly match. If it is a serious match or competition, i will not give them the match that easily. I will keep questioning their calls and if it doesn't stop, i will make one or two bad calls myself on a crucial point. But then i mean a really bad call, preferably a ball that lands within 2 feet of the lines. Then watch their reaction as i state it is my side to call and i saw the ball out.

Either way, i will never play these opponents for the second time.....
 
Might be in the minority here, but if someone is very blatantly cheating and there's no umpire to call I would hook back 1 time on a very obvious call, like a serve in the middle of the service box or something. Make it known to them that you won't just let them cheat without consequences. I have a feeling this type of thing would put an end it in most cases. But I've never actually been in this situation so maybe I wouldn't go through with it in the moment and maybe it wouldn't work out as well as I think.
 
PaddyDutch said:
So….

You saw some kid cheat
Told your wife
She went to the boss of the dad of the cheater
The boss took her word for it and thought to himself ‘this is something I have to get involved in’
Boss spoke to the dad of the cheater
Boss threatened to fire dad of cheater
Dad of cheater spoke to kid
All lived happily ever after.

You should sell the rights to this
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A kid cheat against my kid. That's the difference.

When you have the power to make right from wrong, why not use it?

The kid father's boss has to report to my wife because she is his boss. You see how the world operates?
 
bobleenov1963 said:
My question to all of you is why would you even care about winning or losing? The purpose is to have fun. It is not like you would get a promotion from winning the tennis match. If you want to play someone who make many questionable line calls, just stop playing, shake his hands and tell him you would avoid to play with him in future tournaments if you happen to play him against.

I remembered one time when my son played in a USTA tournament and his opponent's father was someone who worked as a government contractor and his boss had to report to my wife who is a federal government employee. Well, the kid made so many questionable lines calls that my son stopped playing and let that kid win. I told my wife about what happened when I got home and my wife had a conversation with the kid father's boss the following day. Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job. From that point forward, the cheating stopped every time I saw that kid in tournaments.
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Running home to tell your wife. That's all i need to know about you. it's tennis, handle your business yourself. sheesh.
 
bobleenov1963 said:
A kid cheat against my kid. That's the difference.

When you have the power to make right from wrong, why not use it?

The kid father's boss has to report to my wife because she is his boss. You see how the world operates?
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It gets better and better.

In this scenario you sent your wife to instruct her subordinate to, in his managerial role, threaten the dad of the alleged cheater with termination?

This is as unethical as it is made up.

P.S. if this is how this company operates, every staffmember would be recording every conversation to support their lawsuit for unrightful termination.
 
PaddyDutch said:
It gets better and better.

In this scenario you sent your wife to instruct her subordinate to, in his managerial role, threaten the dad of the alleged cheater with termination?

This is as unethical as it is made up.

P.S. if this is how this company operates, every staffmember would be recording every conversation to support their lawsuit for unrightful termination.
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You don’t work in the government contract space so you wouldn’t know. It might be unethical but it gets the job done.
 
bobleenov1963 said:
I remembered one time when my son played in a USTA tournament and his opponent's father was someone who worked as a government contractor and his boss had to report to my wife who is a federal government employee. Well, the kid made so many questionable lines calls that my son stopped playing and let that kid win. I told my wife about what happened when I got home and my wife had a conversation with the kid father's boss the following day. Apparently his boss told the father that he either tells his kid to stop cheating or he would get fired from the job. From that point forward, the cheating stopped every time I saw that kid in tournaments.
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1. Dad tells kid to continue cheating
2. Dad gets fired
3. Dad wins a huge wrongful termination lawsuit
4. Dad buys kid expensive gift
Everybody wins!
 
bobleenov1963 said:
Why do that when you have other people who cans do it more effectively than I do?
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Obviously you ran home to the wife. Honestly, its embarassing on so many levels. The other kid had more mental fortitude that's why he won. Some people capitulate and run home to mommy/wife. That's a good life lesson to quit when the going gets tough.
 
silentkman said:
Obviously you ran home to the wife. Honestly, its embarassing on so many levels. The other kid had more mental fortitude that's why he won. Some people capitulate and run home to mommy/wife. That's a good life lesson to quit when the going gets tough.
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Might be so but when I have power, why not use it?
 
bobleenov1963 said:
Might be so but when I have power, why not use it?
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There is no "might" some familes are afraid of any face to face confrontations so they go to the back channel method. We have a five letter name for people like you. I'm willing to bet he stoped playing tennis. Quitters
 
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I feel at the end of this story of parents losing jobs and lawsuits threatening a company, a one armed man should poke his head out and say, "So kids this is why 99% of an out ball is 100% in"
 
Don't let him get in your head. By thinking more about it and getting frustrated and feeling bad he's living in your head rent free. Remember that you play because you enjoy the game, and people like him who need to cheat to win will never get anywhere. Keep working hard and enjoying the grind, only use this guy for motivation to keep improving. Don't get hung up on it or else he wins.
 
TennisBro said:
With or without an umpire, such situations are not uncommon in ITF/junior ITF Futures. When my 15-year-old son played in a J60 junior ITF tournament's final (hard court) and called the service ball out about 2-3 seconds later, he was told his call was too late and that the ball was on the line. When he asked the umpire to come check the print that was out there, this ITF official refused to get up from his chair. That very ball was my son's set point in the tiebreaker of the second set which was his life-line as he lost the first set; he went on losing the next tree balls in frustration and so the whole match then. This was in Africa with a hot noon time and the last match of the whole tournament and it looked like the umpire just wanted to finish and go home.

I teach my son to be prepared for such situations and not lose his cool. Whether it is possible to keep it all together or not is another thing. Those kinds of moments are extremely tough; decisions to call the balls instantly out or not may be as demanding. When tournaments don't have contingencies for such situations, things can get out of hands. I've seen people physically fight with officials on the international tour too. I've heard/seen recordings of juniors making the umpires look absolutely foolish before. So, this isn't just the USTA that may be having such issues.
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2 to 3 seconds seems like a long time to figure out that a serve was out. I feel that if I do not give a prompt call on a serve, then I have to eat it, and not call it out.

You know how in weddings they say, "...or forever hold your peace."? Same with long serves, if you forget to call it, just give it to your opponent. This will avoid making the server not know if a returned serve is in play or not. Make prompt, generous calls, and hope your opponent does the same for you.
 
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Steady Eddy said:
2 to 3 seconds seems like a long time to figure out that a serve was out. I feel that if I do not give a prompt call on a serve, then I have to eat it, and not call it out.

You know how in weddings they say, "...or forever hold your peace."? Same with long serves, if you forget to call it, just give it to your opponent. This will avoid making the server not know if a returned serve is in play or not. Make prompt, generous calls, and hope your opponent does the same for you.
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Exactly, if someone takes too long to call a ball, then it is in. If they are not sure, ball is in.
 
The best defense against bad calls is recoding the match. And put them on blast if they screw you on calls. Do instant replays and zooms in on the balls and their terrible calls. No one likes to see embarrassing footage of themselves appearing to cheat at something.
 
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kevin qmto said:
The best defense against bad calls is recoding the match. And put them on blast if they screw you on calls. Do instant replays and zooms in on the balls and their terrible calls. No one likes to see embarrassing footage of themselves appearing to cheat at something.
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what percentage of people record matches? you will always have the over zealous parents that record everything.
 
kevin qmto said:
The best defense against bad calls is recoding the match. And put them on blast if they screw you on calls. Do instant replays and zooms in on the balls and their terrible calls. No one likes to see embarrassing footage of themselves appearing to cheat at something.
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I'm curious, do the people that you like to record in slow-motion and "put on blast" on a public forum actually know ahead of time that your plan is to try and make them look like fools on the internet whenever you think they've messed up on a call?
 
Kochua said:
I'm curious, do the people that you like to record in slow-motion and "put on blast" on a public forum actually know ahead of time that your plan is to try and make them look like fools on the internet whenever you think they've messed up on a call?
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I almost always send them the video. I don't go that over the top. Here’s pretty much as far as I go. See? Skip to 4:26 to see a few examples back to back. I’m still waiting on that $100 he owes me.


Haven’t had anyone complain yet. Also all my tennis videos are unlisted. You have to find the link to even see it. He just laughed it off and said “ok I’m not gonna question any of your calls anymore.”
 
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kevin qmto said:
I almost always send them the video. I don't go that over the top. Here’s pretty much as far as I go. See? Skip to 4:26 to see a few examples back to back. I’m still waiting on that $100 he owes me.


Haven’t had anyone complain yet. Also all my tennis videos are unlisted. You have to find the link to even see it. He just laughed it off and said “ok I’m not gonna question any of your calls anymore.”
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This is a great example.

Around 4:40, When your opponent acknowledges there is no other mark, but still argues that he believes it was in. To me that shows that he genuinely believes he is right, while the mark (and now the slowmo) indicates otherwise. I’m pretty sure we have all been guilty of that error.
 
kevin qmto said:
I almost always send them the video. I don't go that over the top. Here’s pretty much as far as I go. See? Skip to 4:26 to see a few examples back to back. I’m still waiting on that $100 he owes me.


Haven’t had anyone complain yet. Also all my tennis videos are unlisted. You have to find the link to even see it. He just laughed it off and said “ok I’m not gonna question any of your calls anymore.”
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I've shot 100's of matches that end up private, for bad call reasons or more often the opponent is all for the video and then asks I don't post it in a bad loss. I still upload and share the unlisted links so we both can review. It is both an excellent learning tool, and a humbling one many times. I had one older friend and he was just absolutely awful at line calls (just bad eyes), but he wasn't being malicious. When I showed just how far off he was though he felt pretty bad on some of them. Only so much he can do, but in cases where I played and it was a match that counted, it was also good to hold them accountable. Or hell, myself accountable at times too. Though I tend to play more "out" balls just to not be 'that guy'.
 
ChaelAZ said:
I had one older friend and he was just absolutely awful at line calls (just bad eyes), but he wasn't being malicious. When I showed just how far off he was though he felt pretty bad on some of them.
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Did your friend play many out balls as in also in addition to calling in balls out? If he had bad eyes, it would make sense for his errors to be in his favor sometimes and against him at other times. Strangely my experience is that many old guys claiming bad eyes make wrong calls only in their favor - they just call every close ball out and have the excuse that they have bad eyesight.
 
I dislike clay but the one thing is if you hit the line the ball takes an awful skip or bounce so there wasn't any question about it. And a ball an inch out or two leaves an obvious mark and has a normal bounce.
 
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