BLX 90 vs. PB10 mid at TW University

corners

Legend
TW University finally tested the much ballyhooed Volkl Powerbridge 10 mid (thanks Prof!). For those who don't know, you can directly compare the "power potential" at 13 locations on the racquet face of two different racquets here:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/contours.php

The basic "Power Zone Comparison" page shows a graded rending of the actual power potential data in the form of "power zones". These are interesting to look at, as they give the best objective picture of what we might mean when we say a racquet has a large or small "sweet spot". The "sweet spot" in actuality being a single point (with no size), these "power zones" are all we have really, aside from subjective reports.

As cool as those are, it's actually more useful for direct comparison to go to the upper left hand corner of each racquet's window and click "location view". If you do this with the Volkl PB10mid in one window and Wilson's BLX 6.1 Tour in the other you can now look at the power potential at each location tested.

I'm interested in this comparison for several reasons:

1) Volkl claims their DNX material stiffens the head of the racquet, making it resist twisting of the racquet face in the event of an off-center impact with a ball. From their marketing, I would expect this type of intrinsic stability to translate as more power at those off-center impact locations. In terms of "power zones" I would expect the power zone of the PB10mid to be larger than a competing frame of a similar swingweight (swingweight being, by far, the largest determinant of power potential).

2) Many posters and reviewers on this site have opined that the PB10mid is more stable than its specs would indicate.

3) The BLX90, being the direct decendent of the hoary Wilson Pro Staff, is one of the most primitive racquets on the market. I don't mean that as a disparagement, but it's well-known that the BLX's forbear, the K90, was pretty much a 90 inch version of the Pro Staff, which is like 30 years old. One could argue that the K90 and BLX90 possess the characteristics of Wilson's vaunted Karophite black. But I think most astute posters here see this as a marketing sham. The K90 is, in all likelihood, constructed of the very same braided graphite and kevlar as was the Pro Staff. Of course, the BLX90 supposedly has some basalt in it. But basalt is a flexible material, and it's inclusion has resulted in the BLX being more flexible than the K90. Flexible racquets are usually considered less stable and less resistant to twisting and torque than a stiffer frame. For this reason I would actually expect the BLX90 to be less powerful and have a smaller "power zone" than the K90. So, in my eyes, the BLX 90 is a softer, mushier version of a 30 year old racquet.


So how does this updated dinosaur compare, in objective tests, to the ultra-modern Volkl PB10mid?

Looking at the Power Zone Comparison we can see the specs:

PB10mid: BLX90:

351.6g 351.3g
31.5cm 31.5cm
332 swingweight 329 swingweight
Twistweight: 11.19 Twistweight: 12.59
Flex:61 Flex:63

(Tennis Warehouse's product pages for these sticks show different flex ratings, but these numbers are directly form the frames that were tested by TW University.)

From these specs I would assume the numbers would be a wash. But, considering the rave reviews on the PB10mid and the vaunted qualities of the marvelously stabilizing DNX material, I would assume that the PB10 mid would be more powerful at off-center locations than the BLX90, especially since that frame is more or less an old man with a pair of fancy new shoes.

As you can see by the numbers below, the BLX90 is actually more powerful at all but two locations on the racquet face (exact center and tip). The difference at the center is negligable, but gives us a place from which to compare the drop-off from there as we move out and up. The BLX90 has more power, relative to the center location, then does the PB10mid. In other words its "powerzone" or "sweetzone" is larger.

2ynl312.jpeg



However, if you compare either of these two mids with other player's sticks you'll find that they are, both of them, top of the class in terms of the sweet zone size. From this perspective they appear to be excellent choices for this headsize. But what surprises me is that the PB10 mid isn't even better, given the technological advantage it most surely possesses over the Pro Staff great-great-grandson.

One thing that jumped out at me when comparing the TW University specs is the difference in twistweights (11.19 vs. 12.59). If any of you recall, our old buddy Lama (aka Rush n' Crush) used to like to say that the DNX "nanotech" of the PB10mid gave the stablility of leadtape without the weight. This may, in fact, have a little truth. We know that twistweight has a big influence on the power potential at locations right and left of center. Since the PB10mid has a significantly lower twistweight than the BLX90 it could have had even poorer power off-center than it does if it didn't have the DNX. Even still, though, since the weight and swingweight of these sticks is pretty much the same, Rush's claim that the DNX gave the stability without the weight doesn't really hold up, since it has the weight too.

In other words, Wilson's 30 year old, PWS "technology" may just trump Volkl's DNX "technology".
 
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^^^^ Another excellent post corners.

Just want to point out that if one were to factor in the lack of tight manufacturing tolerances into the equation here, the picture might get a little bit fuzzy.

I've not tried the BLX but did use the k90 for several years before switching to the PB10mid. My sense is the k90's greater mass made it a slightly more stable frame than the PB10mid, and would tend to agree on the twist weight spec.

Regarding the sweetspot argument, this is rather subjective with variables like technique, strings, tension, swingspeed, etc. all impacting perception. Hard to make a quantitative argument in favor of one over the other here.

Interestingly, I just commented in another thread on the similarities between another dinosaur (C10 Pro Tour 93) and the PB10mid. My sense is both the BLX and the PB10mid represent 'evolutions' of their predecessors, where the "DNA in common" is as close to 100% as you can get.
 
^^^^ Another excellent post corners.

Just want to point out that if one were to factor in the lack of tight manufacturing tolerances into the equation here, the picture might get a little bit fuzzy.

I've not tried the BLX but did use the k90 for several years before switching to the PB10mid. My sense is the k90's greater mass made it a slightly more stable frame than the PB10mid, and would tend to agree on the twist weight spec.

Yeah, but as I know from reading your post over at the Volkl QC thread, spec variation due to QC hardly matters. The picture might get fuzzy but that wouldn't matter, as there is always the same amount of random noise, whether the racquet is on spec, or not.
 
Perhaps even more astonishing than the small differences are the similarities of these two frames with regard to the power numbers.

Of course there are differences in feel that are separate from the numbers, although I love this comparison feature that TW provides, and I think it helps in eliminating some frames as having too small a power zone, rather than serving as a final selection of a frame you will be happy with. It also dispells the widespread advice way too many tennis fans had for Fed only one year ago today, saying that his "tiny" K90 was the source of his tennis woes. The K90, like the BLX 90 has a bigger sweet spot than most racquets, despite it's ancient heritage. (I just like the crisper feel of the K90, something you can't get from the power zones comparisoms.)
 
What I dont get is why TW university stats dont match up with TW product page stats. What is up with that?
Also, the power map is fun to play around with but I find it has little bearing on reality. Look at the blx 6.1 18x20. It has a much lower twistweight than an apdgt. But does anyone really think an apdgt is more stable than a 6.1? No way, dude.
 
So basically what that chart shows is that the BLX90 has more weight distributed towards the sides of the frame, at 3 and 9 oclock, while the PB10mid has more weight towards the tip, at 12 oclock.
 
What I dont get is why TW university stats dont match up with TW product page stats. What is up with that?
Also, the power map is fun to play around with but I find it has little bearing on reality. Look at the blx 6.1 18x20. It has a much lower twistweight than an apdgt. But does anyone really think an apdgt is more stable than a 6.1? No way, dude.

TWU specs on a particular model is based on 1 racket, whereas TW specs are based on 5 rackets (the average taken).
 
I'm with CharlieFedererer on how important the difference in sweet zone is ... the BLX may have a slight advantage in sweetzone (I haven't tried it) but the feel of the stick is as much a component for success as other factors. I have tried so many racquets looking for that elusive combination of power, control and feel. Comparing each of these factors, the PB10mid is unparalleled IMHO (but then again I haven't tried the BLX). Some like a crisper feel and some do not. I like the Volkl feel. I have tried a number of Wilsons and not liked the feel of any of them.... BUT, for me, if the BLX has the feel of a PB10mid it would likely be a racquet that I would really like.
 
Perhaps even more astonishing than the small differences are the similarities of these two frames with regard to the power numbers.

Of course there are differences in feel that are separate from the numbers, although I love this comparison feature that TW provides, and I think it helps in eliminating some frames as having too small a power zone, rather than serving as a final selection of a frame you will be happy with. It also dispells the widespread advice way too many tennis fans had for Fed only one year ago today, saying that his "tiny" K90 was the source of his tennis woes. The K90, like the BLX 90 has a bigger sweet spot than most racquets, despite it's ancient heritage. (I just like the crisper feel of the K90, something you can't get from the power zones comparisoms.)

I totally agree with you on both points.

The K90 has a massive sweetspot for it's size, bigger than a lot of midpluses. The BLX90 appears to be slightly bigger even, which makes me wonder if my scepticism for racquet "technologies" might be slightly overblown. The very thin beam also makes the racquet face effectively bigger, in terms of 'spin window' .
 
So basically what that chart shows is that the BLX90 has more weight distributed towards the sides of the frame, at 3 and 9 oclock, while the PB10mid has more weight towards the tip, at 12 oclock.

Yeah, probably. And another interesting comparison is the PB10mid and the old C10. Here you've got the ultra-modern vs. the old drunk (the C10 having the reputation of being sloppy and noodly in the hoop):

2ivk3rn.jpeg


The C10 has a small advantage in swingweight and headsize, so we would expect it to have a larger sweetzone than the PB10 mid. But the mid has DNX! Doesn't seem to help. Check out how powerful the old C10 is near it's noodly tip!

Again, Charlie Federer was spot on in saying this tool is great to check and see if a stick passes muster. From there you can go directly to the feel you love. Looking at this, I'd say all those C10 users have made a grand choice. Hurrah for another old timer!
 
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So basically what that chart shows is that the BLX90 has more weight distributed towards the sides of the frame, at 3 and 9 oclock, while the PB10mid has more weight towards the tip, at 12 oclock.

I really don't understand why other racquet companies implement extra weight at 9 and 3 like the Wilson PWS. Its got to be one of the best designs of all time.

It doesn't have to look like the PWS, just make sure the extra weight is there!
 
I'm with CharlieFedererer on how important the difference in sweet zone is ... the BLX may have a slight advantage in sweetzone (I haven't tried it) but the feel of the stick is as much a component for success as other factors. I have tried so many racquets looking for that elusive combination of power, control and feel. Comparing each of these factors, the PB10mid is unparalleled IMHO (but then again I haven't tried the BLX). Some like a crisper feel and some do not. I like the Volkl feel. I have tried a number of Wilsons and not liked the feel of any of them.... BUT, for me, if the BLX has the feel of a PB10mid it would likely be a racquet that I would really like.

I remember reading an old thread about the DNX9 titled "Performance trumps feel". For most of us it's the other way around. If we get both - holy grail I guess.
 
well I don't know if it is the dNX but check out the twist weight of the becker mp.....one of the highest of all the sticks. TW sells. After playing with it..I believe it.
 
I really don't understand why other racquet companies implement extra weight at 9 and 3 like the Wilson PWS. Its got to be one of the best designs of all time.

It doesn't have to look like the PWS, just make sure the extra weight is there!

I think some do. If you do some playing in the comparison screen you'll find that some companies' frames have very high twistweights across their whole line. Babolat for example. I think Bab using these widebody beams to keep the overall weight very low. Then they can add weight strategically to maximize twistweight, and thus, sweetzone size and torsional stability. They probably do this by concentrated mass at either 3 & 9 or 10 & 2. Since they are interested in aerodynamics they hide the mass inside the frame. Actually Wilson should do the same at this point, the inward-projecting PWS actually shrinks the spin window slightly.
 
The comparison between the power maps just shows that the PB has more mass near the tip, while the BLX has more mass at sides of hoop.

For a frame to perform well, it needs high twistweight AND a small slope to the power gradient tip-to-throat. To have both of these, you need extra mass at both the sides of the hoop and the upper portion of the hoop. But how much mass can be added is limited by SW.

Because of this, my favorite frames have been ones that are generally light in the lower hoop and throat region. By being light in these portions, it allows more weight to be concentrated where it matters most. Extra long frames often have light hoops that allow for more extreme mods. I really love my cut-down POG LB for this reason. Cut down to 26-5/8", it weighs about 10.5 oz. strung (with a SW of 270) before I add mass to bring it up over 13 oz. And it plays sublimely with 40g of silicone/lead added to the upper half of the hoop and the balance tuned to match my swings.
 
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I think some do. If you do some playing in the comparison screen you'll find that some companies' frames have very high twistweights across their whole line. Babolat for example. I think Bab using these widebody beams to keep the overall weight very low. Then they can add weight strategically to maximize twistweight, and thus, sweetzone size and torsional stability. They probably do this by concentrated mass at either 3 & 9 or 10 & 2. Since they are interested in aerodynamics they hide the mass inside the frame. Actually Wilson should do the same at this point, the inward-projecting PWS actually shrinks the spin window slightly.

Hey guys,

Question: Is it truly a matter of more mass being at 3 or 9, or the fact that these frames are wider rackets? All things being equal, doesn't twist weight go up with a wider frame? (not wide body, but measuring the width of the frame ) Some of the really light, big rackets have pretty high twist weights.
 
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Hey guys,

Question: Is it truly a matter of more mass being at 3 or 9, or the fact that these frames are wider rackets? All things being equal, doesn't twist weight go up with a wider frame? (not wide body, but measuring the width of the frame ) Some of the really light, big rackets have pretty high twist weights.

You're exactly right. Twistweight will increase with mass and distance from the longitudinal axis. Some of the oversize racquets have twistweights over 20! But the Bab 100 inchers are way better than most others in that class. Compare the PDR (14.9) with most midpluses, which are around 12-13.

Then there's the 88 inch Wilson KPS88 at 14.5. Narrow head but lots of mass at 3 & 9.
 
Effect of string spacing on sweetspots of K90 / PB10

The NCode 90 in the shops had a string pattern that got tighter towards the pws, but Federer's actual racket had a more even spacing. This was replicated in the shop versions of the K90 and the BLX too.

I heard that what was originally a custom drill job for Federer moved the sweetspot up the hoop slightly.

The PB10 on the other hand has a string pattern more like the Ncode so I would expect that goes some way towards explaining the relative sweetspots of the 2 frames.

My personal experience is that with soft strings at a low tension on a PB10 mid I get very dampened mushy feedback, which I don't like. That is completely the opposite for the K90 which I much prefer with soft strings and really low tensions.
 
question: Is the pb10 flexy? I've heard the hoop is actually stiff and it plays much stiffer than spec (the throat is the flexy part?)
 
I was going through this thread and I think it is superb (kudos to corners and others), and I felt like summing up the main important points here and point out some others, as well as revive this thread for a very important (to me) point, which is that the pb10mid is not the holy grail, and is a very specific racquet for a certain kind of player (in stock form).

1 - Sweet Spot
Overall, the BLX has a larger sweetspot, by about 3 absolute sq. in. You might foolishly think that these 3 sq in are made up with the approximately larger headsize of the volkl by 3 sq. in. However, as stated, the 3 is absolute. (Check the sweet spot comparison at TWU).

2 - Spin Window
The Volkl has a spin window approx .5 in longer, which I think is significant, given that little else separates these two.

3 - Frame Stiffness
The wilson is about 3 pts stiffer, however, this does not change the power output significantly of each racquet due to their respective technologies, at the sweet spot and even a little outside it. Where the difference in stiffness is really felt is on shots 2-3 in. and more out of the sweet spot, whereby the flexier volkl will provide a more forgiving, less powerful, less accurate twisting response, as opposed to the wilson that will give a more powerful, slightly harsher, and more accurate response.
 
Hmmm...interesting thread, thanks for bumping it up ;).
Usually wilson racquets are rounder and volkl racquets are more oval/oblong/egg shaped.
This might make a difference with regards to the power zones, and makes sense in the context of the Wilson losing less power towards 3 and 9 ...and the volkl losing less power towards the tip.
If anybody has both racquets (or the PB 10 mid and another tour 90 series racquet), it would be interesting to know their compared width/length of the racquet face.
I have a feeling the volkl will have slightly longer mains and the wilson will have slightly longer crosses @ the center of the racquet.
 
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