Bollettieri: 1hbh is dying on tour, dead among the short men

[bjk]

"But he also said that size was a consideration: the game is increasingly dominated by big, strong athletes, and a one-handed backhand would compound the disadvantage for a shorter player. “If the young boy is going to be just 5-foot-9 or 5-foot-10, I’d be a little hesitant to have him play with a one-hander,” Bollettieri said."

http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2...the-dinosaur-that-is-the-one-handed-backhand/

So who are some short players with one handers? Bjorn Phau (5'9). Kohlschreiber (5'10). Rochus and Rochus (are they both one handers?) Gasquet (listed at 6'1, but probably not that big). Dudi Sela (5'9). Kosakowski (probably not the 6'1 on his profile). Petzschner.


If the one hander is such a liability, how have these players survived on tour? I'd even say there are more short one-handers than short two-handres. There just aren't that many short players on tour.

I'd even say NB is exactly wrong. A short player with a 2hbh is doomed. Simply not enough explosiveness or variety. Ferrer has a very unorthodox 2hbh.

 

[kOaMaster]

Gasquet is about as tall as Federer (both listed ~1.85m). Wawrinka an edge less, around 1.83m. Youzhny at about 1.82m. almagro 1.82m too.
I don't think that is "short" at all, not even for tennis.

 

[bjk]

We can debate the heights of players all day, examine pictures, provide personal anecdotes of meeting players, etc. I don't really care how tall Gasquet is.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

And yet the 1-hander has worked very well for some short women: Justine Henin, Carla Suarez Navarro, Francesca Schiavone and Roberta Vinci to name a few. Saw Navarro's BH up close at Stanford this Summer: it was a thing of beauty.


.

 

[BevelDevil]

I'd even say NB is exactly wrong. A short player with a 2hbh is doomed. Simply not enough explosiveness or variety. Ferrer has a very unorthodox 2hbh.

I somewhat agree with you. Most of the good 2hbhs seem to belong to guys over 6'1", whereas the good 1hbhs belong to guys under that.

Selas bh seems to have more power than his fh. This seems to be a common pattern among shorty 1-handers.

Even on the women's side, it seems like the 1-handers have tended to be shorter.
Somebody should ask NB about the supposed weak backhands of American men. Perhaps the 1-hander isn't being taught enough.


I think a short player with a 2hbh is viable as long as the are fast, conistent and have a ton of stamina to play defensive tennis, like Ferrer.

 

[BevelDevil]

And yet the 1-hander has worked very well for some short women: Justine Henin, Carla Suarez Navarro, Francesca Schiavone and Roberta Vinci to name a few. Saw Navarro's BH up close at Stanford this Summer: it was a thing of beauty.
.

yeah, I think the 1hbh is under-used on the women's tour given they are dealing with lower bounces and slower serves.

Also, the first 3 players on your list (all superior topspin bhs to Vinci) are best on clay, which also is the favorite surface of most of the good ATP 1hbh players. So I think NB is being a bit hardcourt centric.


i wish he went into detail about the technical challenges of the "semiwestern" 1hbh grip, though.

 

[Thetouch]

Imagine if guys like Stich, BigMac or Edberg were using the 2hbh.:shock: I don´t know what their game would look like if they played now but usually shorter men tend to hit a 2hbh as I think of Chang, Agassi, Rios because they were quick and needed to compensate for not being as tall and big.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

I think the problem is two fold.

1) Shorter players struggle on serve compared to taller players. Don't bother bringing up exceptions, the rule is clear that height is better on serve. Thus, shorter players have to return very well to win sets. 2hbh is preferable on ROS.

2) Shorter players have shorter levers and need power. This is probably the reason a lot of good 1hbhs have been shorter. They get a longer lever with the 1hbh and footspeed makes up for the increase in required prep time.

These aspects can play out in different ways, but those are the defining characteristics of the problem from my point of view.

 

[Russeljones]

"But he also said that size was a consideration: the game is increasingly dominated by big, strong athletes, and a one-handed backhand would compound the disadvantage for a shorter player. “If the young boy is going to be just 5-foot-9 or 5-foot-10, I’d be a little hesitant to have him play with a one-hander,” Bollettieri said."

http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2...the-dinosaur-that-is-the-one-handed-backhand/

So who are some short players with one handers? Bjorn Phau (5'9). Kohlschreiber (5'10). Rochus and Rochus (are they both one handers?) Gasquet (listed at 6'1, but probably not that big). Dudi Sela (5'9). Kosakowski (probably not the 6'1 on his profile). Petzschner.


If the one hander is such a liability, how have these players survived on tour? I'd even say there are more short one-handers than short two-handres. There just aren't that many short players on tour.

I'd even say NB is exactly wrong. A short player with a 2hbh is doomed. Simply not enough explosiveness or variety. Ferrer has a very unorthodox 2hbh.

I'd say you're wrong. You cannot object to his hypothesis of the big 2hbh player dominating the shorter 1hbh player by citing shorter players' "survival on tour". It's nonsense.

 

[AtomicForehand]

I think the problem is two fold.

1) Shorter players struggle on serve compared to taller players. Don't bother bringing up exceptions, the rule is clear that height is better on serve. Thus, shorter players have to return very well to win sets. 2hbh is preferable on ROS.

2) Shorter players have shorter levers and need power. This is probably the reason a lot of good 1hbhs have been shorter. They get a longer lever with the 1hbh and footspeed makes up for the increase in required prep time.

These aspects can play out in different ways, but those are the defining characteristics of the problem from my point of view.

Pretty good analysis.

I really don't understand why players can't use a mix of 1H- and 2HBHs as appropriate. Sometimes one shot is just better than the other. Other times, not so much. Choose and use.

 

[Camilio Pascual]

I really don't understand why players can't use a mix of 1H- and 2HBHs as appropriate. Sometimes one shot is just better than the other. Other times, not so much. Choose and use.

Exactly!
Martina Hingis is the outstanding example of using a 1hbh or 2hbh as appropriate.
I believe the failure to teach the use of both is one of the 3 major failings of conventional coaching of amateurs in the USA.

 

[bjk]

I really don't understand why players can't use a mix of 1H- and 2HBHs as appropriate. Sometimes one shot is just better than the other. Other times, not so much. Choose and use.

I think that's where the sport is going, Gilbert agrees. The tennis academies run into diminishing returns training players to hit one stroke. Better use of that time is learning multiple strokes.

 

[bjk]

Exactly!
Martina Hingis is the outstanding example of using a 1hbh or 2hbh as appropriate.
I believe the failure to teach the use of both is one of the 3 major failings of conventional coaching of amateurs in the USA.

don't tease us like that Camilio . . .

 

[Camilio Pascual]

don't tease us like that Camilio . . .

Okay, I'll give you one more.
The return of serve is woefully underpracticed. It's only the 2nd most important shot in tennis.

 

[uncle pollo]

Okay, I'll give you one more.
The return of serve is woefully underpracticed. It's only the 2nd most important shot in tennis.

This is my impression too.

 

[Smasher08]

Gasquet is about as tall as Federer (both listed ~1.85m).

Disagree.

 

[Netspirit]

^ At least he is strong enough to lift Federer up a few inches

 

[Valdez737]

Disagree.

Wtf both his feet are off the ground and two nikki symbol on one sock photo shop?

 

[hoodjem]

Like Victor Estrella Burgos.

 

[Vensai]

Whatever. People can choose to use whatever backhand style they want.

 

[Netspirit]

^ This thread is not about what people can choose to do.

 

[Michael Lesbowicz]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

 

[Triskadekaphilia]

Wtf both his feet are off the ground and two nikki symbol on one sock photo shop?

You never noticed before that he floats on air

Probably wearing 2 socks, right?

 

[sureshs]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

I am ranked 168th in your village, have a 1 handed BH, and am doing pretty fine too.

 

[bjk]

The other interesting point NB makes is that the hand on the 1hbh grip has to be behind the handle in order to deal with pace. So a semi-western grip, but NB says it's too hard to hit semi-western backhand. That would mean that players with semi-western forehand grip would hit both forehand and backhand with same grip, I think.

 

[winstonlim8]

I personally wouldn't take too seriously any analytical comments made by the man who taught the women pros to scream when hitting dropshots.

 

[Doubles]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

I hit a three handed backhand, and I'm number one in your village.

 

[hawk eye]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

I am ranked 168th in your village, have a 1 handed BH, and am doing pretty fine too.

I hit a three handed backhand, and I'm number one in your village.

Are you the Village People?

 

[dje31]

I personally wouldn't take too seriously any analytical comments made by the man who taught the women pros to scream when hitting dropshots.

Well played, winstonslim8! Quoted for truth.

 

[Captain Ron]

When Federer, Wawrinka and Gasquet retire will that make a 4.0 the highest rated 1HB in the world?

 

[Romismak]

he is right, 1h BH is dying, but actually i would say shorter guys can play 1h bh while taller guys not, taller guys hitting hard, are slower, need 2h BH, while smaller guys who are quicker, can play fast tennis can actually play 1h BH - going to the net and so on- it´s pracital to have 1hander

 

[Rozroz]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

the the rest 166 have 2HBH...? :|

 

[TennisLogic]

I have a one-handed backhand and I am ranked number 167 in my village. I am doing pretty fine.

you should post a video of your backhand, so you know who will give you advice.

 

[Doubles]

the the rest 166 have 2HBH...? :|

No. I hit a three hander.

 

[objectivity]

the issue is that the 1HBH is naturally weak(er) against the high ball. unless one has exceptional timing and willing to step in to take the ball on the rise, a really difficult task. and shorter men, by default, are going to face balls which are higher relatively.

 

[thomasferrett]

Doesn't Bollettieri have it the opposite way round?

If you're short, you have shorter levers, and thus less potential power. Using a 1hbh gives you leverage and more potential power over a 2hbh since the swing is longer, so shorter guys can use this to their advantage.

Why do you think that Wawrinka has similar or greater power from the baseline from the backhand side than Del-Potro, Raonic, Cilic and Isner despite being half a foot shorter?

For this reason, some of the shortest guys on the women and men's side (Rochus and Navarro) are using 1hbh despite its rarity, but hey, Bollettieri knows best, right?

 

[wangs78]

You need a strong shoulder to pull off a 1HBH and chances are a big, strong player is more likely to have the physical ability to have a 1HBH when he is developing in his teens than a shorter player will.

 

[Federer20042006]

Grigor Dimitrov didn't get the memo that the 1HB is dying.

 

[heninfan99]

Gasquet is pretty big. Kohls though is more 5'9".

I would like have hear Nick expound on this a little more.

 

[winstonlim8]

Well played, winstonslim8! Quoted for truth.

Thank you. I guess NB doesn't have a high opinion of the European one handers

 

[dje31]

^^^ That and that most of the shriekers on the WTA came from his camp.

 

[BHud]

In the juniors, I hit a 2hbh, and although it was my strongest stroke, I was told that my slower movement on the court would limit my success so they switched me to a 1hbh at age 16 to expand my reach. While very successful for my game (former D1 player), I wish it wasn't viewed as either/or. It would be nice to be able to use them interchangeably as the situation dictates. I see more and more pros going this route today.

 

[RUC]

Disagree.

Ummm Fed is like 2 in off. The ground - they are the same height -

 

[tennisdad65]

I would think that shorter guys need the 1HBH more to make up for their reach and power disadvantage.

 

[bjk]

does fed even hit high backhands? he half volleys half his backhands. players will eventually figure out a way to deal with Nadal's topspin to the 1hbh. taking it off the short hop sounds like a better idea than Gasquet hitting from 20 ft behind the baseline.

 

[thomasferrett]

does fed even hit high backhands? he half volleys half his backhands. players will eventually figure out a way to deal with Nadal's topspin to the 1hbh. taking it off the short hop sounds like a better idea than Gasquet hitting from 20 ft behind the baseline.

A better option than both of these is to increase the range of your backhand strike zone so that you can slam down winners whether the ball is at your ankles or 5ft above your head. Aren't two-handed backhand players already able to do this?

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Nick Bollettieri....a raisin in the sun...

"The one-hand backhand's importance is shriveling up...just like me."

 

[objectivity]

Wtf both his feet are off the ground and two nikki symbol on one sock photo shop?

good catch. Smasher08 loves to do such things. he will even photoshop nonsense to make his point, like how he will make up nonsense about Rafa doping to discredit the player.