Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Babolat Official, Dec 10, 2012.
have you tried the 2012 pure drive though, it has a stiffness of 72
I can't speak for the other companies...
Stiffer rackets usually mean more power. And with the evolution of the game, more and more people want more power from their frames. We're trying to address the needs of all players, and our entire product mix for 2014 will reflect another step in this direction.
Any tips on strings to help make a PD/APD racquet more arm-friendly? I love those racquets, but I was testing them out with synthetic gut and my arm got so sore that it was almost unbearable. Given that I normally use uber stiff strings (kevlar), I don't think even stringing my setup at a super low tension will help much (or could it?).
just got back to you, thanks for the note
If anyone is at Cincy today (Thursday), stop by the Fast Serve Cage today at 3 PM. I'll be there and you can watch Jack Sock hit some big serves.
Yes, well, the correlation between racquet stiffness and power is just not there. Power varies with swingweight for any given racquet length with stiffness having a small effect on off centre hits and stability.
So if Babolat racquets have had power it's because the swingweight has been high, which in my experience has been the case although the recent iterations of the drive and the aeropro drive have less swingweight.
I'm sure you can't speak for other companies, but the way companies copy each other makes one think they talk a lot about each other. There do seem to be fashion trends in tennis equipment.
"Racquet stiffness has no effect on power when the ball is struck in the middle of the strings, but stiff racquets are more powerful when the ball is struck nearer the tip of the racquet"
-- Rod Cross, Chapter 14, Racquet Power, The Physics And Technology Of Tennis.
I did the same test drakulie did with radar gun and 30 different racquets ranging from 51 stifness to 73 and velocity was the same no matter the stick, did it feel different...yes ...was it faster NO,
Have you tried a higher end, softer string like VS Gut 1.30 (16g)? It's expensive but nothing is better for the arm.
All things being equal, a stiffer version of a frame will have more power than the exact same racket with a more flexible frame. Think about throwing a tennis ball against a brick wall and a wall made of sponge. Which will the ball come off of with more power.
Yes, there are many factors that go into determining the power of a racket.
I'm not sure it is copying each other as making changes that reflect the evolution of the game and consumer needs. Babolat popularized the "tweener" racquet (stiffer, large frame, wide beach, open string pattern) with the Pure Drive...many companies made models similar. Whether to copy the success or address the needs of consumers; almost a chicken/egg argument.
Likewise, the growing popularity of Blade/Speed/Aerostorm type frame is something most companies are considering.
I haven't read this particular book. But I also don't hit it in the exact center of the strings every time. And is the middle of the strings the sweet spot or the center of the strings? If you look at most top pros, they aren't in the exact center every time...food for thought.
I'm not sure what answer you're looking for here. By no means am I a scientist. If this is something you really need to investigate, send me an email and I'll forward it to the product team.
I'm impressed you found 30 frames where every variable was perfectly replicated and static except for the frame stiffness.
Long story short but I could give Roman (****) run for his money if I decide to go in to racquet customizing. Lets just say that's my hobby(read obsession)
But no, if we take common assumption power=speed(most people equate power with the speed of the ball) than with increase in RDC you do not gain any power(speed) at all.
With all due respect to your marketing department (and don't get me wrong I am a fan... I own or owned nearly every advanced Babolat Product starting from Pure Drive 2nd gen through Pure Controls, First storms and aeros to new cortex and ac stuff) they are full of it.
Thay are not the only one its industry wide issue...
You should do it! We hook up Roman, Nate, etc. with new products before anyone else. It's a cool side of the business and a fun way to stay around the sport.
@dan: speaking of early hook-ups, would be sweet if you could let me know about the babolat play system. I write quite a bit about startups/tech/marketing and I anticipate it being as cool an innovation as the nike fuel bands in terms of quantifying the game. you got my email address
Yes, well, the question is whether there is any science to racquet design and whether that science is good science.
I was surprised that racquet stiffness is not that great a determinant of power as I thought it might be and that's changed my racquet preferences.
Slippery copoly strings and spin production had been known for a while before string manufacturers started trying to 'copy' alu power and then we had the idea of fewer cross strings by Wilson to be 'copied' by Prince.
To return to stiffness, you can read the latest TW reviews that say things like the Extreme Pro is really stiff but with the soft grommets it feels really plush;: the Volkl 7's have stiffness well into the mid 70s but they are reported to feel soft.
And Babolat's Woofer and Cortex technologies soften feel as well.
Stiffness doesn't cause me arm problems but the benefit seems low, as discerned by the science, and the need to soften the feel of stiff racquets seems like a cure for a disease we don't need to have.
I'm not quite sure what I'd work on if I were a racquet designer, but guaranteed swingweights points for racquet lines would be one very unglamorous if objective element as would be graduated stiffness ratings.
Were you inside the MW sports tent at all today? I was in around 4 or 5 and was asking some is the reps inside about information on the Pure Stryke and the Pure Storm (Control) for 2014. Unfortunately they did their job and didnt give me any info or act like there was any information to be given...
Apparently it's not to be called Pure Stryke. I'm hoping for Pure Control to make a return.
You dont need to be scientist to undertand very basics of physics. The more stiffness the less energy loss in deformation. It is 100% clear that stiffer frame will transfer more kinetic energy into ball than wet noodle...
Can we understand it that Babolat gave up "olschool players frame" market segment?
Remember when Galileo chucked that stuff off the tower?
So, Rafa vs Fed today....
We have our team working in the tent...they're legit. I'm off to NY.
Mais où sont les neiges d'antan?
I don't want to start scientific discussion here like some here in racquet forum but I would agree with you if you hit the ball with the racquet frame itself but that's not the case atl least majority of the time...or if your name is not federer and you frame every other ball
So you are correct that you gain minimal power closer to the frame tip due to lack of racquet bend/give but players perception is far greater here than actual on court benefit
The reality is that the real power comes from the Swingweight, and most rec players can only handle it so high. The pros use softer sticks and higher swingweights. The racquet companies know this, and want average people to get more power while keeping the racquet feeling easier to use. Even though the stiffness does not make a huge difference, it is the only way to accomplish this.
Look at the newest APD - higher in stiffness, lower in SW. Perfect example.
That is why I think a Rafa edition of the APD with his flex (roughly 65), a sick grey/black/yellow PJ, higher SW at around 330 like the prior models, and his sig would be the best selling Babolat stick of all time. It would actually have more power than the current model and the feel would be much better as well.
If they took the cortex out like most pros do on theirs, it would be even cooler, but I can see how that may not jive with their marketing department.
Double post, too much cortex taken this AM.
Anglais s'il vous plait. Mon francais est aussi mauvais que mon italieno.
when can we expect a Babolat Pure Storm Tour Ltd 16x16
Somebody who calls himself Power Player is possibly not best equipped to judge what sort of racquet would sell well to the average "non power" player. A higher SW and more flexy racquet would not help MOST recreational players feel all that good about themselves and would probably have the niche sales appeal of a Volkl. The last racquet I used with a mid 60s flex rating and a SW of 330 was the ProKennex Ki 10 PSE, and even the PK faithful never embraced that rather good racquet.
Harsh mon ami
You know what is funny is the specs I put out are the same specs as the original APD and the SW is about the exact the same as all the APDs prior to the newest release. The only difference is the flex would return to the original number. Mid 60s is not a low flex. You make it like you have to a superhero to handle that racquet, when it reality it could be used by about anybody.
Someone who calls himself Ollinger may want to actually lift a few weights now and then.
Remember, the APD static weight -it's nice and light.
Guy forget with the prototype in Optima open.
There are two issues with that statement, if as you say it would be expected to have a good grasp of the language then he wouldn't have the job as it would of been in the interview, secondly I think (this always used to be the case) that Babolat had a USA company/arm so if it's still the case he may well not work for a French company at all.
Do you think the people who make Honda cars in the US can speak Japanese?
there are two sides to the issue, and this is something that comes up A LOT here in the french part of Canada. wrote an article for an online journal on the topic a few weeks ago and stirred up a lot of discussion in this part of the world.
on the one hand, yes it's a good skill to have and definitely an issue the higher up you go in a company, but on the other, Daniel probably has the experience and skills that some other francophone candidates don't have. Babolat is a global company that reaches most of its client base in English, so it would be more beneficial, if one had to choose, to have someone good in English and less proficient in French in that position as opposed to the inverse.
don't hold your breath, but interesting idea
I speak tennis.
Daniel did you play with the new line prototype? If you have to compare to Head prestige? Is it easier?
Daniel, will the new "Pure Stryke" line or whatever it will be called, be more like the pure drive/APD, more like the pure storm, or in between?
Also, what will the cosmetics for the pure storm look like for 2014? Any pics?
And finally, will any of these new racquets be used in the US Open???
Not really gav- can't blame companies for wanting to release a bit of information at a time. That's why they have a Marketing Dept. I prefer the softer message of Babolat & to be honest dealing with the austrians(Head) was a humbling experience as well.
The structure of Head as a company has changed markedly though in the
last 20 years, Babolat has remained family, french based.
The message may not be loud enough for some but I think they get the job done. I still think it is great that Daniel is answering questions to the extent he does on this forum. As we have seen, no other company is offering this.
I'm with raging - I think Babolat deserves major kudos for having Daniel on here answering our questions - very smart of them.
Is this the new "Pure Stryke"?
Would be curious to understand that one myself.
is this pic from cinci?
no i found it on the web
Thanks for the bump I hope I am going to get this answered from Babolat official
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