I can never understand why the Pepsi Grand Slam is official with basically 2 rounds and the European Community championship in Antwerp with all its rounds is not official.
Borg/Connors/McEnroe/Lendl - Unofficial matches
- Thread starter Gizo
- Start date
I can never understand why the Pepsi Grand Slam is official with basically 2 rounds and the European Community championship in Antwerp with all its rounds is not official.
borg number one
Legend
You got me timnz. I don't know but can only offer an opinion as to a possible explanation. The Pepsi had big prize money and you had to have won a major to play in it, but I guess where do you draw the line? I agree that there should be consistency. I tell you one thing though, if you went that route, well the totals for Borg, Connors, McEnroe, and Lendl would change pretty dramatically in terms of total wins/titles, etc. I hear you though. Why not really go back and look at big, serious events that were hotly contested by great players? It may very well be the case that they want to keep the focus on the current ATP events that also have some history, but maybe they have just not been very thorough. What's your take on the ATP and how they operate on this topic? Perhaps the Pepsi officials simply asked the ATP to go back and include those tourneys.
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Basically the ATP has no good reason
If you look at the winners and Runner-ups in Antwerp from 1991 and earlier (before being an ATP event) - well wow, they had some great players contesting them. And the final was best of five as well! It was no mere exhibition event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Community_Championship
If you look at the winners and Runner-ups in Antwerp from 1991 and earlier (before being an ATP event) - well wow, they had some great players contesting them. And the final was best of five as well! It was no mere exhibition event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Community_Championship
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All those events should be officially counted in my opinion, whether they are the 4 man events like the Pepsi Grand Slam or Suntory Cup, 8 man events like the Molson Light Challenge, Challenge of Champions or Brooklyn Masters or 24 man events like the ECC.
Another big mess is some events being counted as official in certain years but not in others, like Forest Hills, Stuttgart etc. I think that a few years ago the ATP didn't count Borg's 1974 Auckland title as part of his records, despite the fact that Auckland has been a long-standing official tour event.
Tanner and Connors both played 6 matches at the Kent Grass Championships in 1976 at Beckenham, with Tanner winning the final. I know that when Lendl won the event in 1990 and 1991, in both years he received a 1st round bye but still had to come through 5 matches to win his titles there. The event was lasted for 110 years and for many years players had to win 5 or 6 matches to win the title, yet it has never been counted officially. Ridiculous.
Another big mess is some events being counted as official in certain years but not in others, like Forest Hills, Stuttgart etc. I think that a few years ago the ATP didn't count Borg's 1974 Auckland title as part of his records, despite the fact that Auckland has been a long-standing official tour event.
Tanner and Connors both played 6 matches at the Kent Grass Championships in 1976 at Beckenham, with Tanner winning the final. I know that when Lendl won the event in 1990 and 1991, in both years he received a 1st round bye but still had to come through 5 matches to win his titles there. The event was lasted for 110 years and for many years players had to win 5 or 6 matches to win the title, yet it has never been counted officially. Ridiculous.
kiki
Banned
Counted or not, the 8-10 established unofficial events were probably just below the Big 5 in terms of importance and popularity.Use 70´s and 80´s glasses, not current glasses.
Antwerp had the most coveted prize of all; that amazing Golden and Diamonds racket...you had to win the event three years to keep it for life...
Antwerp had the most coveted prize of all; that amazing Golden and Diamonds racket...you had to win the event three years to keep it for life...
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-12/sports/sp-425_1_mcenroe-beats-lendl
The mighty Lendl-McEnroe rivalry keeps growing. I stumbled across another unofficial match they played, at the Stuttgart Eurocard Open in November 1988, which Mac won 7-6 7-6.
This takes their amazing rivalry to 62 tournament matches (and counting) in total, and 37-25 in Lendl's favour.
Stuttgart was an unsanctioned 8 man round robin event in 1988 and 1989, before becoming an official ATP event in 1990, and a masters series event from 1996-2001. Lendl's 5 set victory over Mecir in 1989 final wasn't an all-time classic, but was still a pretty entertaining match.
The mighty Lendl-McEnroe rivalry keeps growing. I stumbled across another unofficial match they played, at the Stuttgart Eurocard Open in November 1988, which Mac won 7-6 7-6.
This takes their amazing rivalry to 62 tournament matches (and counting) in total, and 37-25 in Lendl's favour.
Stuttgart was an unsanctioned 8 man round robin event in 1988 and 1989, before becoming an official ATP event in 1990, and a masters series event from 1996-2001. Lendl's 5 set victory over Mecir in 1989 final wasn't an all-time classic, but was still a pretty entertaining match.
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kiki
Banned
Thanks Gizo for the interview on Connors at Obras Sanitarias.Awesome
Loved Obras basketball team..Romano,Rafaelli,Milovic,Frazer,Butler,Torres and Campana...
kiki
Banned
Good post.
One of my faves was the Brookline Masters held at Milano, Italy, from 1978 till 1981.Borg beat Mc Enroe 6-4,1-6,6-4 in the 79 final ( he beat Panatta or Gerulaitis in the 78 final, don´t remember now).I heard that Borg and Mac used to share some coke prior or after the match; it was not an official event and both really liked each other.
In 1980 Mc Enroe won the event ( can´t recall his opponent in the final now) and in 1981 it was Lendl´s turn, after a torrid final vs Mc Enroe that the czech won 6-4,2-6,6-4.They both took the heat to the shower room...and a week later, to the Barcelona exhibition, where JMac gained sweet revenge in the way he loved the most.
I agree; typically, these were not just "one-off" 2 guy events. Several were multi-day affairs w/larger fields w/elimination or RR. Just because they were not ATP sanctioned doesn't really hold water IMHO. Many of these were big bucks and very competitively played. Shoot, Connors recently admitted paying off his gambling debt after winning the Caesar's Palace event in the 70's....LOL!
kiki
Banned
I remember an exo with Lendl and Gerulaitis.it was the first day and it was played late at night.Vitas lost but saved three mp and bowed 10-8¡¡¡ in the third set.So much for 70-80 exo haters.
In the same event, Mac saved a mp against Lendl in the second set tie break of the final and won the third set and the match.In that mp, Lendl had hit an extremely angled FH passing shot that just went into the line.The umpire called it out.When both were changing sides, Mac made a clear enough sign to Lendl that he had seen the ball was in.
those days, these events popularized the game to non touched again levels.The heat and passion in those events ( in spite of some tanking too) made tennis Golden Era a fact.
In the same event, Mac saved a mp against Lendl in the second set tie break of the final and won the third set and the match.In that mp, Lendl had hit an extremely angled FH passing shot that just went into the line.The umpire called it out.When both were changing sides, Mac made a clear enough sign to Lendl that he had seen the ball was in.
those days, these events popularized the game to non touched again levels.The heat and passion in those events ( in spite of some tanking too) made tennis Golden Era a fact.
Yeah they were very entertaining and Mac had some of his biggest bust ups with both Connors and Lendl in those invitationals. Often there were better stories coming out of those events than from the official grand prix ones. Plus there were packed crowds and great atmospheres.
As kiki said, Connors, Borg and McEnroe in-particular taking their show on the road and travelling all over the globe to play in these events helped the sport become so big and popular across the world. Until then, tennis wasn't really on the radar in a lot of countries. Nastase, Gerulaitis, Vilas etc were also an excellent supporting cast.
I wonder what Connors's title count would be if his all his unsanctioned title wins were counted. Take his 1983 season for instance, officially he is down as having won 4 titles for the year. However to me that just seems ridiculously low and unrepresentative of his season, when he won an insane number of important and big money unsanctioned events that year, I think 10, beating pretty much every other big name player around at the time.
Chicago in January 1983 is the only invitational event I can think of that featured all of the big 4, plus Gerulaitis was there as well. Apart from Borg vs. McEnroe, all of those guys played each other at the tournament:
Group A – McEnroe def. Lendl 6-3 6-2
Group B – Borg def. Connors 6-4 1-6 6-2
Semi-Final – Lendl def. Borg 6-1 7-5
Semi-Final – Connors def. McEnroe 6-1 5-7 6-2
Final – Lendl def. Connors 4-6 6-4 7-5 6-4
I thought that the Molson Challenge in 1982 might have had all 4 of them as well. Then I realised there were 2 separate editions that year, one in Toronto in February with a RR format, and one in Montreal in September/October with a direct 8 man knockout format. Lendl, McEnroe and Connors played in Toronto in February, with Lendl beating Connors in their RR group (McNamara also beat Connors in that group to reach the semis) and McEnroe in the final. Connors, Borg and Lendl played in the Montreal edition, with Borg beating Lendl in the semis and Connors beating Borg in the final. That tournament clashed with USA’s Davis Cup semi-final against Australia in Perth, so Mac couldn’t play there. In the February 1981 edition, McEnroe, Connors and Borg were there but not Lendl.
Of course in November 1982, Connors was due to play in the 4 man events in Perth and Sydney, and then the Europe vs. Americas event in Barcelona later that month, all alongside those other 3 guys. Unfortunately injuries forced him to withdraw from those events, and he was replaced by Gerulaitis in Perth and Sydney, and by Van Patten in Barcelona. Borg, McEnroe, Lendl and Connors all playing each other once in best of 5 set matches at the AKAI Gold Challenge in Sydney would have been amazing.
kiki
Banned
Yep, that´s it.As you mentioned, in 1981 there were Borg,Connors,Gerulaitis and Mac at Moolson, with Connors beating Borg and Mac being beaten by Vitas.
The Aussie series were great, there were thrilling five setters, specially one pitting Lendl and Mac with Lendl winning, but I don´t remember at which of those 3 venues it happened.It may have been Mac´s best match against Lendl in 1982 ( other than beating him early in January at the Rosemont Cup before losing that torrid five setter against Connors).
In the 1981 Barcelona Event, Borg was also suposed to play for Europe but withdrew.Borg had played lots of tennis in Barcelona ( Gran Prix and WCT) but he also mised the 1980 Gran Prix tournament which he also was expected to enter.
and Van Patten...hahahah nic elooking actor who happened to be good enough to play pro tennis.He took the very coveted Tokyo Indoors by beating Mac Enroe and Clerc in 1981.His only brilliant flash as a tennis pro but..what a big win¡¡¡
NaBUru38
Rookie
This contemporary article stats that the 1982 Europe vs Americas Challenge was played on fast courts.
Edición del Thursday 2 December 1982, Página 24 - Hemeroteca - MundoDeportivo.com
Previsualiza el ejemplar de MundoDeportivo - Hemeroteca - MundoDeportivo.com
hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com
"Higueras ha demostrado que la pista rápida no le va tan mal como dicen"
By the way, the sponsored name of the tournament was Kent Challenge.
Thanks for the kind words guys, and also to Kiki for those additional matches. I'll update the opening posts
Yes I used the h2hs between the 4 players on the ITF website for the official matches, and so have any matches not on there I've listed here.
Quite a lot of those matches were televised and are available on DVD. For instance ESPN use to televise the Molson Challenge in Canada. That McEnroe-Borg match in 1981 was incredible in front of a very appreciative crowd.
L'événement Rosemont Challenge of Champions en janvier 1983 avait l'air incroyable. Dans leurs groupes RR, Borg a battu Connors et McEnroe a battu Lendl, en demi-finale Connors a battu Mac et Lendl a battu Borg, et en finale Lendl a battu Connors. Nous avons donc eu 5 matchs sur 6 dans un tournoi, le seul manquant étant Borg-McEnroe.
Je crois que lors de l'AKAI Gold Challenge en 1982, Connors devait initialement jouer mais a dû se retirer, Gerulaitis le remplaçant. Rien contre Vitas, mais imaginez à quel point cela aurait été cool, un événement à 4 avec Borg, McEnroe, Lendl et Connors s'affrontant dans un groupe RR, avec chaque match au meilleur des 5 sets.
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