Boris Becker: "No tennis player in history has ever put together Alcaraz's combination."

[Incognito]

He's an untamed wild beast at this point. A glorious sighting but can be dangerous for the spectators and himself.

Roger Federer is the only other player who belongs in this exact conversation of geniuses - and he I maintain, is still the gold standard for this kind of Tennis despite Carlos essentially being a rebirth of the man in many ways.

I saw a crazy backhand half volley that reminded me of Federer from him today. Crazy touch If only he had Sinner’s consistency.

 

[ALCARAZWON]

Regardless of who your coach is, you'll always have room for improvement after the age of 22.
No matter who was coaching Alcaraz, his shot-selection was never going to be perfect at age 22.
The thing about JCF, is we don't know exactly what JCF is telling Alcaraz, but it appears Alcaraz is often playing on instinct... and I think that's a good thing.
Nobody has a bigger bag of tricks than Alcaraz, so he's very wise to choose instinct over instruction, because his instincts will make it harder for his opponent.
BTW Nadal improved tactically during his 20s (and 30s to a lesser extent), becoming less reliant on his forehand, and knowing exactly when to approach the net.

 

[Incognito]

He is an early bloomer who already won 5 slams. Let us not pretend he is a baby who is light years away from prime level. Going toe-to-toe with an 37 years old should not be celebrated when he loses in the end. Regardless of whether said 37 years old happens to be GOAT or not.

But at the same time that 37-year old is no ordinary 37 year old. He is not Fedal who could barely walk at that age. He is as fit as Sinneraz. He is so supremely confident in his fitness level that he wants to play the next Olympics. Combine that with 20-years of experience

 

[mike danny]

According to TTW a top player never should be outplayed , lose a match he’s expected to win

Depends against whom though

 

[mike danny]

But at the same time that 37-year old is no ordinary 37 year old. He is not Fedal who could barely walk at that age. He is as fit as Sinneraz. He is so supremely confident in his fitness level that he wants to play the next Olympics. Combine that with 20-years of experience

But Alcaraz is no ordinary 19-22 year old either so this argument doesn’t quite hold.

Djokovic not being an ordinary 37-38 year old is just something Carlos apologists say to ease the pain of his losses

 

[mike danny]

He just turned 22. It's pretty astonishing he was going toe to toe with someone who dominated the tour like Djoke.

Astonishing is pushing it. A 20-22 year old should beat a 37-38 year old not just being competitive with him. But we’ve forgotten what good young players look like.

Even Delpo at 21 beat prime Fedal back to back to win a slam, which is more impressive in my book than going toe to toe with an old dude

 

[mike danny]

He is an early bloomer who already won 5 slams. Let us not pretend he is a baby who is light years away from prime level. Going toe-to-toe with an 37 years old should not be celebrated when he loses in the end. Regardless of whether said 37 years old happens to be GOAT or not.

He kind of is light years away from prime level on HC and clay isn’t too impressive either

 

[Incognito]

But Alcaraz is no ordinary 19-22 year old either so this argument doesn’t quite hold.

Djokovic not being an ordinary 37-38 year old is just something Carlos apologists say to ease the pain of his losses

Neither was Rafa, but that doesn’t mean he won all his matches at that age? Rafa at the same age lost matches to players worse than Djokovic at his age.

Pain of his losses? Without 19-20 year old Alcaraz, djoke would be sitting today with 9 wimbledons lol

 

[KennyoFatoBoiyo]

He is an early bloomer who already won 5 slams. Let us not pretend he is a baby who is light years away from prime level. Going toe-to-toe with an 37 years old should not be celebrated when he loses in the end. Regardless of whether said 37 years old happens to be GOAT or not.

Ok and what about beating the GOAT I'm back to back Wimbledon finals including last year's thrashing on Noles maybe 2nd best surface??

Of course you don't wanna talk about that lol.

 

[Zetty]

Astonishing is pushing it. A 20-22 year old should beat a 37-38 year old not just being competitive with him. But we’ve forgotten what good young players look like.

Even Delpo at 21 beat prime Fedal back to back to win a slam, which is more impressive in my book than going toe to toe with an old dude

Who outside of Sinner/Alcaraz has been consistently stopping Djokovic in Bo5 the last couple years? He can outlast pretty much any opponent lol. He's insane for his age.

 

[mike danny]

Who outside of Sinner/Alcaraz has been consistently stopping Djokovic in Bo5 the last couple years? He can outlast pretty much any opponent lol. He's insane for his age.

That only speaks volumes on the others.

 

[mike danny]

Neither was Rafa, but that doesn’t mean he won all his matches at that age? Rafa at the same age lost matches to players worse than Djokovic at his age.

Pain of his losses? Without 19-20 year old Alcaraz, djoke would be sitting today with 9 wimbledons lol

But he was beating Fed at his peak which is a much more impressive feat than beating Oldovic

 

[marc45]

Jcf lucked out on looks, too. Basically got everything in life. Except that second slam!

should have done more with his own career

will be interesting to see if he's a long-term answer for Carlos if Sinner stays on top and at least matches him in slam wins (hardcourts)

 

[Tennfan123]

should have done more with his own career

will be interesting to see if he's a long-term answer for Carlos if Sinner stays on top and at least matches him in slam wins (hardcourts)

I think Carlos will keep him. Really a player of Carlos talent can work with an average coach and be fine. Carlos is smart and as he matures, he’ll understand there’s only so much Jcf can do, which is get him to play the percentages when he needs to and take risks when he needs to. Really, what coach doesn’t already know that about him, and he knows it, too. It’s down to Carlos to implement it.

 

[messiahrobins]

German tennis player Boris Becker, winner of six Grand Slam titles, has once again embraced Carlos Alcaraz after the Spanish player retained his title at Roland Garros after coming from behind in the final against Jannik Sinner.

In statements reported by Eurosport Germany, Becker believes Alcaraz has the best combination of shots in history. "His shot variation, the power with which he hits, the feel he has on the balls... I don't know of any player in the history of tennis who has this combination."

In fact, Becker believes that if Alcaraz is motivated, no player on tour could beat him. “He still has a seventh gear. For me, Alcaraz is a genius. When you challenge him, stimulate him, and motivate him, he reaches a level no other player can reach.”

I mean i hate tooting my own horn...but everything i said would happen after a Sinner-Alcaraz final at RG has literally happened. Virtually every so called expert ive heard is saying the same stuff i.e Alcaraz is GOAT and i knew this was coming, knew it after IW2022..no i correct myself, actually knew at RG2020 that there was a new GOAT contender on the way (Sinner) then in 2022 i realised Alcaraz was a notch above, but the point is both of them developing a duopoly and producing matches like they had at USO 2021, FO2025 and also their one Wimbledon encounter was 4 hours plus high octane brilliance was always going to see the GOAT crown very quickly removed from the Big 3. Thankfully the Big 3 seem perfectly cool with this, and dare i say maybe relieved now that they dont have to put up with the non stop arguing.

 

[messiahrobins]

He is an early bloomer who already won 5 slams. Let us not pretend he is a baby who is light years away from prime level. Going toe-to-toe with an 37 years old should not be celebrated when he loses in the end. Regardless of whether said 37 years old happens to be GOAT or not.

You thought W2024 Final was toe to toe?

 

[messiahrobins]

Except that 16-years-older Djokovic can outrally him.

In best of 3 set matches.

 

[travlerajm]

In best of 3 set matches.

Djoker is 2-2 H2H in Bo5 vs. Carlos overall, including a win this year. 2-0 in matches on clay or hard.

 

[messiahrobins]

Djoker is 2-2 H2H in Bo5 vs. Carlos overall, including a win this year. 2-0 in matches on clay or hard.

2-0 Alcaraz in Slam finals.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Ok and what about beating the GOAT I'm back to back Wimbledon finals including last year's thrashing on Noles maybe 2nd best surface??

Of course you don't wanna talk about that lol.

This is what you would expect from the younger ATG. The very fact alone that 37 years old Djoko can beat Raz still in slams and for OG is a win for him regardless of other matches. Connors is always excused for his 17 straight losses against Lendl due to age, and those two guys are "only" 8 years apart.

 

[FeroBango]

I saw a crazy backhand half volley that reminded me of Federer from him today. Crazy touch If only he had Sinner’s consistency.

At this point that BH flick is a part of his repertoire, particularly surfacing during the grass swing.

Sinner is an all-time run right now. I wish for that level of floor for Carlos too but hey, this clay swing wasn't too bad considering everything.

 

[FeroBango]

He just turned 22. It's pretty astonishing he was going toe to toe with someone who dominated the tour like Djoke.

It's also a dishonest interpretation of what Boris or the OP conveys.

I also like how we carefully don't give him any benefit of the doubt because he's an eArlY bloOmer as if that will give him the rich values that just living and more Tennis experience will give Carlos.

We can cherry pick anyone and trash anyone. Djoker will be given a pass for the Safin loss in 08, and his "issues" in 09-10 as if Alcaraz himself hasn't had his own kinds of demons to battle with, for example.

When it comes to Fed fans, well some of us like to have the cake and eat it too. If you ask what he did before 22-23, we'd say Sampras was done by him in 01. If you ask what happened later, we'll say he didn't always bloom before 22-23.

Then if you ask why an Oldgassi took peak Fed to back to back 5-setters in slams, we'll just say duh, he won.

The less we talk about Roddick and Novak, the better.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

You thought W2024 Final was toe to toe?

Ahem? The "toe-to-toe" came from the other user I was responding to who seems to think it should be celebrated that a young ATG can go "toe-to-toe" with a 37 years old. Seriously this should not happen. Federer went 8-0 against old Agassi and that Agassi was never older than 35 when they met with multiple matches at 33 as well. Lendl started beating Connors 17 times in a row when the latter was 32. While Fed was incredibly good at old age and could hold his own better against Djoko, he also only won one match against him after 2015 and never beat him in a slam after 2012 when he was 31.

All those pairs are way closer in age than Raz and Djoko. The fact that at age 37, Djoko still won two very important matches in a row shows me that Raz is not the real deal yet people try to make him. You really think if 2004 Fed appeared today he would lose to Djoko? He would do to him what he did to old Agassi.

 

[FeroBango]

But at the same time that 37-year old is no ordinary 37 year old. He is not Fedal who could barely walk at that age. He is as fit as Sinneraz. He is so supremely confident in his fitness level that he wants to play the next Olympics. Combine that with 20-years of experience

All players including the many GOATs and the geniuses of our game have quirks in their stats including questionable H2H.

The sooner TTW realises that the Big 3 too, had weird losing h2hs to players they shouldn't be having losing h2hs, the more honest this conversation would be with regards to the Alcaraz (or Sinner for that matter) who to these posters, will just stop benefiting from the prime of his youth and the fruits of further experience.

 

[abmk]

But at the same time that 37-year old is no ordinary 37 year old. He is not Fedal who could barely walk at that age. He is as fit as Sinneraz. He is so supremely confident in his fitness level that he wants to play the next Olympics. Combine that with 20-years of experience

Fed won Miami, made final of IW, made semi of RG, beat nadal and nearly beat Djoko in Wim 19, beat djoko in straights in YEC 19. pretty sure he was doing great for his age in 2019. and he will most likely have played more matches than djokovic in 2025 by the time it ends

djokovic can dream about playing next Olympics. it ain't gonna happen.

 

[abmk]

Who outside of Sinner/Alcaraz has been consistently stopping Djokovic in Bo5 the last couple years? He can outlast pretty much any opponent lol. He's insane for his age.

who outside of Sinner/Alcaraz is any good to stop djokovic?

 

[abmk]

Ahem? The "toe-to-toe" came from the other user I was responding to who seems to think it should be celebrated that a young ATG can go "toe-to-toe" with a 37 years old. Seriously this should not happen. Federer went 8-0 against old Agassi and that Agassi was never older than 35 when they met with multiple matches at 33 as well. Lendl started beating Connors 17 times in a row when the latter was 32. While Fed was incredibly good at old age and could hold his own better against Djoko, he also only won one match against him after 2015 and never beat him in a slam after 2012 when he was 31.

All those pairs are way closer in age than Raz and Djoko. The fact that at age 37, Djoko still won two very important matches in a row shows me that Raz is not the real deal yet people try to make him. You really think if 2004 Fed appeared today he would lose to Djoko? He would do to him what he did to old Agassi.

to be fair fed-djoko played only 3 times after 2016. very close match in Paris 18, had MPs in Wim 19 and fed beat him in straights in YEC 19.
agree on Alcaraz. he hasn't even shown he is better prime level wise than Hewitt/Roddick/safin at AO/Wim/USO.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

to be fair fed-djoko played only 3 times after 2016. very close match in Paris 18, had MPs in Wim 19 and fed beat him in straights in YEC 19.
agree on Alcaraz. he hasn't even shown he is better prime level wise than Hewitt/Roddick/safin at AO/Wim/USO.

Well the Fed- Djoko is ofc a little bit of an outlier compared to the others (Connors-Lendl, Agassi-Fed) but nevertheless Fed is 0-6 in slams since 2012. It also reinforces my point. If old Fed can handle a younger Djokovic like that, then a 22 years old Raz should completely dominate him. If we replace 22 years old Raz by 22 years old Fed, there is no way he loses to 37 years old Djoko.

 

[objection_]

to be fair fed-djoko played only 3 times after 2016. very close match in Paris 18, had MPs in Wim 19 and fed beat him in straights in YEC 19.
agree on Alcaraz. he hasn't even shown he is better prime level wise than Hewitt/Roddick/safin at AO/Wim/USO.

I can't blame you for blotting out the Cincy 18 Final sh*tshow from your mind...

 

[abmk]

I can't blame you for blotting out the Cincy 18 Final sh*tshow from your mind...

oh yeah!

 

[Angrybirdstar]

All players including the many GOATs and the geniuses of our game have quirks in their stats including questionable H2H.

The sooner TTW realises that the Big 3 too, had weird losing h2hs to players they shouldn't be having losing h2hs, the more honest this conversation would be with regards to the Alcaraz (or Sinner for that matter) who to these posters, will just stop benefiting from the prime of his youth and the fruits of further experience.

once you notice how often discourse (not just Alcaraz-related) relies upon "3x-year-old Djokovic" as a symbol rather than an actual player with particular skills and experience, you'll never look at it the same way again

the fact is that for someone of Alcaraz's talent, basically any loss is embarrassing, but flopping is how most of a career goes - that's why we have the concept of a prime! and even within a prime, the idea (or at least it should be if we treat it meaningfully) is to build up a body of work where no single snippet is legacy-defining (whether unforgivably bad or gloriously great)!

people use his own talent and precociousness and clutchness against him to weave narratives about the weight of his worst losses, and then power scale other players' matches while ignoring that any differences in flopitude are in degrees rather than fundamentals. if Alcaraz never gets meaningfully better than what he's like right now, then yeah he's probably not GOATed, but you can't act like him being an early bloomer (or an athleticism merchant) guarantees him having effectively peaked already or not improving significantly! the tennis still has to be played and watched!

 

[TheRed]

Ahem? The "toe-to-toe" came from the other user I was responding to who seems to think it should be celebrated that a young ATG can go "toe-to-toe" with a 37 years old. Seriously this should not happen. Federer went 8-0 against old Agassi and that Agassi was never older than 35 when they met with multiple matches at 33 as well. Lendl started beating Connors 17 times in a row when the latter was 32. While Fed was incredibly good at old age and could hold his own better against Djoko, he also only won one match against him after 2015 and never beat him in a slam after 2012 when he was 31.

All those pairs are way closer in age than Raz and Djoko. The fact that at age 37, Djoko still won two very important matches in a row shows me that Raz is not the real deal yet people try to make him. You really think if 2004 Fed appeared today he would lose to Djoko? He would do to him what he did to old Agassi.

Yeah, I mostly agree with you but I should say these comparisons between Fed and Alcaraz aren't really accounting for matchup in style. Djokovic's level of play is frankly stunning at his age and there's obviously some luck that his body has held up. But Fed playing Agassi is a bit different from Alcaraz playing Djokovic. Djokovic is a counterpuncher/grinder and probably the best ever with this style. And it's the same style that's the worst matchup for a young aggressive player who can sometimes lack patience. Aggressive players always struggle against Djokovic style players until they hone their discipline and strategy. It's the same reason Chang dominated Sampras early on before Sampras got it together and blew him away. Not to say Alcaraz or anyone is capable of blowing Djokovic away but it's a similar situation. Fed v. Agassi on the other hand, doesn't present any real matchup problems for Fed. Agassi was slow and while he could pressure Fed with his ball striking, Fed could beat him mostly playing his own game, save for playing a bit more patience.
Guys like Alcaraz who have lots of tools always takes awhile to figure out how and when to use each weapon. For Fed, it was focusing on serve and forehand, coming to the net less and being more selective about when to go for a backhand. For Sampras, it was also about being more defensive on the backhand and relying more on serve and being selectively aggressive, waiting for a forehand that he can unload on. Even when Sampras missed on the FH, it scared the sh-- out of the other guy so he was able to intimidate. As for Alcaraz, I don't know. Maybe grind a bit more, rely on his speed, change speeds on forehands so that they look even bigger when he goes for them? I do notice Alcaraz does not as often do what Nadal used to when falling behind in a rally- Nadal would put some air under the ball to give himself more time to get back into position. Alcaraz often just unloads, which is great if it becomes a running winner but gives him less time to get in position if the other guy returns the shot.

 

[penguin]

There’s a reason why i always called out JCF since he can’t polish Carlos and bring his best version , Carlos has won so many slams with a horrible coach in box is a testament to his talent. There are many areas where he can still work on.

I believe that you could not be more wrong. The number one risk to Carlos's career is injury, and it is important he doesn't play full throttle all the time. They are doing it perfectly to have had him peak for French Open and possibly Wimbledon.

 

[Turning Pro]

I feel like he's even wasted a few slams between 2022 til now.

But at least he's converted a few tight finals and remains 5-0!

 

[FeroBango]

Th

once you notice how often discourse (not just Alcaraz-related) relies upon "3x-year-old Djokovic" as a symbol rather than an actual player with particular skills and experience, you'll never look at it the same way again

the fact is that for someone of Alcaraz's talent, basically any loss is embarrassing, but flopping is how most of a career goes - that's why we have the concept of a prime! and even within a prime, the idea (or at least it should be if we treat it meaningfully) is to build up a body of work where no single snippet is legacy-defining (whether unforgivably bad or gloriously great)!

people use his own talent and precociousness and clutchness against him to weave narratives about the weight of his worst losses, and then power scale other players' matches while ignoring that any differences in flopitude are in degrees rather than fundamentals. if Alcaraz never gets meaningfully better than what he's like right now, then yeah he's probably not GOATed, but you can't act like him being an early bloomer (or an athleticism merchant) guarantees him having effectively peaked already or not improving significantly! the tennis still has to be played and watched!

That last line is what many just don't address. The Tennis has to be played and no day is the same as the other.

Nitto 2023 Djokovic was a VERY impressive version of himself and if we cannot forgive Sinner and Alcaraz for losing to that Djokovic for instance (though Jannik got a W in RR), none can be forgiven in our sport. The same Djokovic a couple of months later produced a stinker of a match at AO 24. The Tennis has to be played after all, and tennis can thrown up surprises.

That Nitto 2023 performance, btw wasn't much different from Shanghai 2014 Federer. Serene level, who cares what age he was at?

No day is the same as the other, and this is particularly important while discussing GOAT level talents.

 

[FeroBango]

I feel like he's even wasted a few slams between 2022 til now.

But at least he's converted a few tight finals and remains 5-0!

Agreed, the Medvedev loss in USO 2023 in particular is unpardonable, as well as Med did play.

Alc displayed slam winning form and should have done better than lose his mind to a redlining Medvedev of all people.

 

[mike danny]

It's also a dishonest interpretation of what Boris or the OP conveys.

I also like how we carefully don't give him any benefit of the doubt because he's an eArlY bloOmer as if that will give him the rich values that just living and more Tennis experience will give Carlos.

We can cherry pick anyone and trash anyone. Djoker will be given a pass for the Safin loss in 08, and his "issues" in 09-10 as if Alcaraz himself hasn't had his own kinds of demons to battle with, for example.

When it comes to Fed fans, well some of us like to have the cake and eat it too. If you ask what he did before 22-23, we'd say Sampras was done by him in 01. If you ask what happened later, we'll say he didn't always bloom before 22-23.

Then if you ask why an Oldgassi took peak Fed to back to back 5-setters in slams, we'll just say duh, he won.

The less we talk about Roddick and Novak, the better.

Agassi didn’t take Fed to back to back 5 setters.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Yeah, I mostly agree with you but I should say these comparisons between Fed and Alcaraz aren't really accounting for matchup in style. Djokovic's level of play is frankly stunning at his age and there's obviously some luck that his body has held up. But Fed playing Agassi is a bit different from Alcaraz playing Djokovic. Djokovic is a counterpuncher/grinder and probably the best ever with this style. And it's the same style that's the worst matchup for a young aggressive player who can sometimes lack patience. Aggressive players always struggle against Djokovic style players until they hone their discipline and strategy. It's the same reason Chang dominated Sampras early on before Sampras got it together and blew him away. Not to say Alcaraz or anyone is capable of blowing Djokovic away but it's a similar situation. Fed v. Agassi on the other hand, doesn't present any real matchup problems for Fed. Agassi was slow and while he could pressure Fed with his ball striking, Fed could beat him mostly playing his own game, save for playing a bit more patience.
Guys like Alcaraz who have lots of tools always takes awhile to figure out how and when to use each weapon. For Fed, it was focusing on serve and forehand, coming to the net less and being more selective about when to go for a backhand. For Sampras, it was also about being more defensive on the backhand and relying more on serve and being selectively aggressive, waiting for a forehand that he can unload on. Even when Sampras missed on the FH, it scared the sh-- out of the other guy so he was able to intimidate. As for Alcaraz, I don't know. Maybe grind a bit more, rely on his speed, change speeds on forehands so that they look even bigger when he goes for them? I do notice Alcaraz does not as often do what Nadal used to when falling behind in a rally- Nadal would put some air under the ball to give himself more time to get back into position. Alcaraz often just unloads, which is great if it becomes a running winner but gives him less time to get in position if the other guy returns the shot.

Not sure whether I can agree that a counterpuncher/grinder is the worst possible matchup for a young upcoming player. I would rather assume an old guy with an ATG serve is way more difficult, as serving ability least decrease in age. This is also why a guy like Fed was comparatively competitive with Djoko especially on fast surfaces even when older. When grinding it out it comes down to fitness/stamina in the end in which case the 16 years younger guy should always have an advantage.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

It is their duty, innit. Rio Ferdinand talks like Kylian Mbappe landed on the moon and cured hunger at the same time. We even had Bobby George on talk sport talking about how Phil Taylor wouldn't be able to compete with Luke Littler and Luke Humphries.

 

[TheRed]

Not sure whether I can agree that a counterpuncher/grinder is the worst possible matchup for a young upcoming player. I would rather assume an old guy with an ATG serve is way more difficult, as serving ability least decrease in age. This is also why a guy like Fed was comparatively competitive with Djoko especially on fast surfaces even when older. When grinding it out it comes down to fitness/stamina in the end in which case the 16 years younger guy should always have an advantage

It's not about anything physical. Young guys lack patience and guys who make them hit one more shot are bad matchups because they can get younger guys to overhit. That's clear in many of Carlo's matches with Djokovic. The old guy w/ ATG serve is difficult for anyone and for a young power player, he just plays his same game because he likes to bring the power too. Power players, before they refine their strategy and discipline, hate counterpunchers/wily players. See Safin v. Santoro, early chang v. Sampras, early Hewitt v. Federer, etc.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

It's not about anything physical. Young guys lack patience and guys who make them hit one more shot are bad matchups because they can get younger guys to overhit. That's clear in many of Carlo's matches with Djokovic. The old guy w/ ATG serve is difficult for anyone and for a young power player, he just plays his same game because he likes to bring the power too. Power players, before they refine their strategy and discipline, hate counterpunchers/wily players. See Safin v. Santoro, early chang v. Sampras, early Hewitt v. Federer, etc.

Guys can only make them make hit one more shot if they have great movement and retrieving ability which will naturally decline in age. Early Hewitt and early Chang were, as the name says, early meaning young. None of the two had great longevity and this was for a reason. Older Djokovic is still incredibly fit but he won't be able to get so many balls back as in his prime. A guy like Federer who can still hit 20+ aces at 33+ should naturally be way more dangerous in individual matches imho. There is also a reason why guys with great longevity (e.g. Federer, Djokovic, Agassi) improved their serve in older age (even if for the later two it still was not great). Nadal also changed his grinding style a little when he got older and played more aggressively. All in all I do not see why Djokovic's style should be so much tougher for Raz than other styles. If he had blown Raz away from the court with ATG serving performances I would see it more as a logical one-off, saying that if everything clicks for an older guy with a great serve such upsets can happen.

 

[FeroBango]

Agassi didn’t take Fed to back to back 5 setters.

You're right. I'm wrong. I misremembered the 05 match at USO as one. Disgusting mandela effect here. Poor from me overall.

But the point is we can dismiss anyone if we have enough qualifiers (Djokovic being a mug for losing to Roddick and certainly to Safin in a legitimately great year for him in 08). Hell we routinely diminish Djokovic of 2011 himself for being taken to 5 at the USO and for getting whipped by Fed at RG. It is just the way things are here.

A much younger version of myself would routinely dismiss away Nadal's two Wimbledon titles because of "grass slow bro" reasons. I'm intimately familiar and grew up with this kinda game!

There are only losers in the war between recency bias and nostalgia.

I personally see no wrong in the OP, except that Boris is forgetting the greatest of this kind, Roger.

 

[zagor]

* most everyone agreeing with Becker , whereas if McEnroe were to say this he’d get the execution chair here

What Becker said was still much tamer than JMac's -Sinneraz would have been favored to beat peak Nadal on clay. A very, very dumb statement and one of the numerous examples why we shouldn't take pros' words as gospel, especially the ones in the business of selling/hyping the game.

I do think tennis pundits/former pros are going way overboard in praising Alcaraz but it's kinda to be expected, dude has everything to be the next golden boy and tennis has always been seeped in recency bias, even more so now than ever.

Carlito is a great, spectacular player but I personally don't see him on the level of the big 3 in terms of level of play, yet. Maybe his peak tennis is still to come, next few years are sure gonna be interesting.

 

[Zetty]

who outside of Sinner/Alcaraz is any good to stop djokovic?

The same amount of people that were any good to stop Djokovic years before.

 

[mike danny]

The same amount of people that were any good to stop Djokovic years before.

Not true. In years before you had younger Fedal + Murrwrinka

 

[messiahrobins]

Ahem? The "toe-to-toe" came from the other user I was responding to who seems to think it should be celebrated that a young ATG can go "toe-to-toe" with a 37 years old. Seriously this should not happen. Federer went 8-0 against old Agassi and that Agassi was never older than 35 when they met with multiple matches at 33 as well. Lendl started beating Connors 17 times in a row when the latter was 32. While Fed was incredibly good at old age and could hold his own better against Djoko, he also only won one match against him after 2015 and never beat him in a slam after 2012 when he was 31.

All those pairs are way closer in age than Raz and Djoko. The fact that at age 37, Djoko still won two very important matches in a row shows me that Raz is not the real deal yet people try to make him. You really think if 2004 Fed appeared today he would lose to Djoko? He would do to him what he did to old Agassi.

I take the general point but i think Alcaraz is an interesting case study. He is much like Nadal but to a more extreme extent on that he produces his best in the biggest moments. Consistency isn't his thing and not something he is bothered about much like Nadal was never bothered about being no.1. It may be a Spanish thing but they are all about the big events and peaking at the right time. Bruguera was the same back in the day.
Break down Alcaraz and Djokovic and really the only big match Alcaraz lost was this years AO and that was only a QF and Alcaraz was woeful that match. It was an anamoly of a performance from him albeit similar to what he did at the USO a few months earlier but both can be explained as him regretting his antics at the Olympics. He knew he should have won gold. He got arrogant though partied too much and totally underestimated and to an extent disrespected Djokovic as he clearly thought he just had to turn up to win after the thrashing he handed out a few weeks earlier on grass.
I'll guarantee thay from now on of he meets Djokovic at the Slams he will be handling him with ease as will Sinner so the points you raise I am sure we will see repeat themselves now with the beatdowns I suspect Djokovic will be taking by them at the Majors. In terms of Sinner those beatdowns may also happen at smaller events as Sinner seems more keen about consistency than Alcaraz.

 

[FeroBango]

I take the general point but i think Alcaraz is an interesting case study. He is much like Nadal but to a more extreme extent on that he produces his best in the biggest moments. Consistency isn't his thing and not something he is bothered about much like Nadal was never bothered about being no.1. It may be a Spanish thing but they are all about the big events and peaking at the right time. Bruguera was the same back in the day.
Break down Alcaraz and Djokovic and really the only big match Alcaraz lost was this years AO and that was only a QF and Alcaraz was woeful that match. It was an anamoly of a performance from him albeit similar to what he did at the USO a few months earlier but both can be explained as him regretting his antics at the Olympics. He knew he should have won gold. He got arrogant though partied too much and totally underestimated and to an extent disrespected Djokovic as he clearly thought he just had to turn up to win after the thrashing he handed out a few weeks earlier on grass.
I'll guarantee thay from now on of he meets Djokovic at the Slams he will be handling him with ease as will Sinner so the points you raise I am sure we will see repeat themselves now with the beatdowns I suspect Djokovic will be taking by them at the Majors. In terms of Sinner those beatdowns may also happen at smaller events as Sinner seems more keen about consistency than Alcaraz.

Alcaraz for all the seventh mythical gear many of us agree that he has including Boris here, is a head case. As you say it's got to do with his age and youthful arrogance and the opposite of it, the easily crushed ego.

Olympics 2024 sucked the soul out of him and though he should have won against Djokovic this year - perhaps his most unreasonable loss, it's also true that during that stretch that extended arguably til Miami this year save for the great indoor title he snatched, he was shot mentally to the extent in retrospect it is not wonder that Djokovic could ALSO beat him. Djokovic could have been on a wheel chair and he still would have lost to him.

21-yo Alc was both a generational talent, the youngest to a channel slam, and a head case who probably cried himself to sleep thinking about Olympics for 5 months straight. He may not even remember the USO lol (hyperbole) because it was in the aftermath of the Olympics tragedy.

I can only hope we see more of the mental giant side of his as we move forward and less and less of the head casecaraz we know and dread.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

I'll guarantee thay from now on of he meets Djokovic at the Slams he will be handling him with ease as will Sinner so the points you raise I am sure we will see repeat themselves now with the beatdowns I suspect Djokovic will be taking by them at the Majors. In terms of Sinner those beatdowns may also happen at smaller events as Sinner seems more keen about consistency than Alcaraz.

Well time will tell. However, of course every month that passes plays into Raz´ cards so it is not necessarily so telling if he wins from now on. The damage from the losses (AO AND OG which is big imho) are already done. A 37 years old should not be able to beat the new ruler in slams and Olympic finals. If he then avenges the losses against the 39 year version or whatever it won't make up for it so much.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

Tell me more about the feel on his balls.

 

[Incognito]

Fed won Miami, made final of IW, made semi of RG, beat nadal and nearly beat Djoko in Wim 19, beat djoko in straights in YEC 19. pretty sure he was doing great for his age in 2019. and he will most likely have played more matches than djokovic in 2025 by the time it ends

djokovic can dream about playing next Olympics. it ain't gonna happen.

Which only means Fed with a broken back was better than djoke because of his game style. But Fed barely played years after that.