Bouchard, Does anyone else think that...

prgault

Rookie
her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
She's not a smooth player by any means. When she's badly late on a backhand, the resulting shot can be almost parallel to the baseline. But she's dogged, and adequately powerful.
 

Down_the_line

G.O.A.T.
her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_

She does seem to play really "stiff". That's the best word I can use to describe her strokes. It certainly doesn't look very fluid, but it doesn't seem to matter.

Gulbis' forehand takes the cake for awkwardness.
 

Gut Check

Professional
her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_

All true, but if we're going to pick at faults there are actually very few players whose strokes and technique I really find aesthetically pleasing from top to bottom, and that includes lots of winners of majors on both the mens' and womens' sides over the past 40 years. I gave up a long time ago worrying about the oddities of their strokes, and just try to enjoy the result.
 

struggle

Legend
her lack of shrieking and other oddities easily makes up for her "different strokes".

she's quite refreshing.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
Ugly technique, but that's true for most of the WTA. There are very few exceptions. Stosur comes to mind, but she can't win nowadays.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Ugly technique, but that's true for most of the WTA. There are very few exceptions. Stosur comes to mind, but she can't win nowadays.

Stosur's topspin BH is terrible. See? This is easy.

I kind of agree though, but that's part of her aggressive nature. Some shots might look odd, but they're usually timed perfectly. FH can look strange at times, but her BH is beautiful.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Same thoughts here. I agree that Genie, herself, is very easy on the eyes but her positioning and stroke mechanics leave much to be desired. Her forehand often looks forced and awkward. Some BHs have an abbreviated baseball look to them. Sometimes she hits some decent looking strokes but too many of them are not. Bends from her waist a bit too much and she sometimes stay down on the shot when she shouldn't.

Would hate to think that someone who could be in the top 5 by the end of the year has such an awkward looking game. Perhaps she is working on these things. I've noticed that her strokes in her practice sessions often look better than her match strokes. A work on progress?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoAFdcwAg_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYpGrYLkm4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NXhd4vNfiI

I much prefer the movement and stroke mechanics of Simona Halep.
(Please: NO SPOILER REPLIES)
 

Peters

Professional
Sometimes the most aesthetic way of hitting a shot isn't the most efficient, depending on the attributes of the person involved.

Efficiency will always win over aesthetics. In fact, in modern tennis I'm not even sure what 'aesthetically pleasing' even means tbh, it's a very obtuse concept when you weigh up the myriad of considerations that go into each players approach.
 

ACE of Hearts

Bionic Poster
Lisicki's one of my favorites on the tour.Big server.Her groundstrokes as well.She just hasnt put it all together and doesnt have the mental makeup
 

wy2sl0

Hall of Fame
Guess what, it works.

When I first saw her, I remember saying "My god, how is she possibly going to hold up against the pros with those fundamentals?"

Well I am eating crow now. ESPN really bandwagons, but the shotspot analysis of her hitting 98% of returns inside the baseline goes to show you she has insane natural timing (compared to WTA players). It's like when your opponent tells you to just take the ball early - what are we, Agassi? Not just anyone can take the ball off the bounce all the time and hit winners. Well I would say 2 Semi's and a Final proves she can, ugly or not.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
People tend to equate unorthodox/"not by the book" with bad/flawed technique. From a coaching standpoint, this is wrong. Bouchard's technique might look a little odd, but it's still very efficient. And with her aggressive/hug the baseline/take the ball early style of play, the more compact the strokes the better. But when she's rushed, i.e. when the ball is hit hard right at her, the "oddness" of her technique is magnified because she can't get proper shoulder turn so it looks like she squats/lunges at the ball. This is more a positional/movement/footwork issue (getting out of her own way) than any perceived technical issue with her groundstrokes, and it can be fixed with a couple more years of strength and conditioning (building a better/stronger core).
 
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Down_the_line

G.O.A.T.
I'm just happy that the Canadian program seems to be emphasizing aggressive, yet smart, tennis with its players. Bouchard and Raonic, awkward style or not, seem to play with the mindset of attacking, rather than rallying the ball all day, which seems to be the industry standard nowadays. And guess what: it's paying off for both of them. Their peers seem completely taken aback.
 

Gut Check

Professional
I'm just happy that the Canadian program seems to be emphasizing aggressive, yet smart, tennis with its players. Bouchard and Raonic, awkward style or not, seem to play with the mindset of attacking, rather than rallying the ball all day, which seems to be the industry standard nowadays. And guess what: it's paying off for both of them. Their peers seem completely taken aback.

Who would have guessed it? Habitually passive Canadians going on the offensive.
 

Kevb22

New User
She does seem to play really "stiff". That's the best word I can use to describe her strokes. It certainly doesn't look very fluid, but it doesn't seem to matter.

Gulbis' forehand takes the cake for awkwardness.
True, true. She (and almost all wta players) have the same problem.
 

mule250

Professional
I thought it was going to say Bouchard anyone else think that.... she has manly deep voice? Anyone else noticed this? first time I heard her in a post match conference I was pretty surprised
 

Gut Check

Professional
Coach Saviano at the start of Friday morning's practice session the day before the final, "Hey Genie, I was thinking that even with your meteoric rise in the rankings and chance at your first major tomorrow morning, it would probably be best if we start to think about completely breaking down your current stroke production starting again from the basics." Sheer genius.
 

TennisLovaLova

Hall of Fame
No, not graceful at all, and since she ruined Angelique's chances of winning her first slam, let's hope she loses.

Yeah, Kerber the cheat is the princess of Grace isnt she? Gimme a break. She should be banned for what happened in FO vs Hantuchova. Genie didnt ruin her chances of winning a GS, it's called KARMA
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
She's awesome. Man, tennis would be a dull game if everyone played with the same Tennis Manual style of stroke aesthetics.

I wonder how many of the "coaches" here would have "corrected" Santoro.
 

iri10

Rookie
Her strokes are ugly, but the combined synthesis of her game has proven very effective. She takes the ball early, and just as importantly has a strong mind that isn't easily derailed. That will beat a lot of players with more beautiful games but less mental consistency.
 

Midaso240

Legend
Yes,she has a fairly ugly game and it's one that,I believe,can be exploited by powerful,aggressive players such as Serena,Sharapova and hopefully,Kvitova in the final. If these girls can hit deep balls and push her behind the baseline,she's in trouble.
 

winstonlim8

Professional
her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_

I absolutely agree. I can't help thinking that last night, I wasted 90 minutes of my life watching two women trying very badly to play tennis like men very badly. I hope the poster who dreaded watching a Djokovic-Nadal topspin slug fest was also watching the Bouchard-Halep semifinal yesterday evening. That game should put to rest any more debate about the women's game as far as I am concerned.

From now on, I am not going to waste my time watching any more women's games where Serena, Maria, Li Na, Agnieska, or Victoria aren't playing, though I will probably watch the Kvitova-Bouchard game on Saturday because when Petra is on, she's a delight to watch (a bit like Cleijsters in my opinion.)
 

wmrhawk

Rookie
I love her look and aggressive style of play, but the ground strokes, technically, remind me of the dance moves of Elaine Benes.

Go Eugenie!
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Sometimes the most aesthetic way of hitting a shot isn't the most efficient, depending on the attributes of the person involved.

Efficiency will always win over aesthetics. In fact, in modern tennis I'm not even sure what 'aesthetically pleasing' even means tbh, it's a very obtuse concept when you weigh up the myriad of considerations that go into each players approach.

Exactly. Look at Nadal. No one would teach someone else his FH technique, but it's one of the best singular shots of all time.
 

Down_the_line

G.O.A.T.
I absolutely agree. I can't help thinking that last night, I wasted 90 minutes of my life watching two women trying very badly to play tennis like men very badly. I hope the poster who dreaded watching a Djokovic-Nadal topspin slug fest was also watching the Bouchard-Halep semifinal yesterday evening. That game should put to rest any more debate about the women's game as far as I am concerned.

From now on, I am not going to waste my time watching any more women's games where Serena, Maria, Li Na, Agnieska, or Victoria aren't playing, though I will probably watch the Kvitova-Bouchard game on Saturday because when Petra is on, she's a delight to watch (a bit like Cleijsters in my opinion.)

How in the world did you get that from that match? What is "playing like men"?

You people finding new ways to criticize Bouchard are trying too hard. Just say she has ugly technique and be done with it. :lol:
 

Rjtennis

Hall of Fame
Eugenie has some amazing timing. Her strokes look a little odd, but how early she takes the ball is amazing. I doubt Petra will be able to match her consistency and mental toughness.
 

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
You have absolutely no clue...

her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_

...per what the commentators said, and I agree, her coach, Nick Saviano emphasized clean strokes, athletecisim, and aggression, and the fact that she's in the Wimbledon finals, at age 20, is proof...
 

KYHacker

Professional
She has what I call Babolat technique. Stunted, awkward strokes that rely on the power of the frame and timing to be effective and efficient. That said, it's effective for now. Genie is just now playing the top players regularly and is only going deep in the draw every other tournament. My prediction is that the top women will learn how to exploit her technical flaws over the next six to twelve months. Also, awkward technique usually leads to injuries. My net is that she will start to have niggling injuries show up as she plays more matches by going deeper in the draw against tough opponents. Wait til Vika is back at full strength.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
her game (strokes) is/are awkward and stilted? She's gorgeous and all, and I'll root for her, but she just doesn't have very graceful strokes...

P_

SCOREBOARD! Don't give a krap about what her strokes look like....all but one girl on the WTA side is left watching her continue to play....3 straight semi's, under 21...much more to come.

On the men's side you have elegance (Rog), Ugly (Rafa) and the in between (Joker)...ALL PRODUCE RESULTS...same thing with the ladies.
 

winstonlim8

Professional
How in the world did you get that from that match? What is "playing like men"?

You people finding new ways to criticize Bouchard are trying too hard. Just say she has ugly technique and be done with it. :lol:

To answer your first question, I watched the game without my pink rose-tinted glasses.

To answer your second, I can only say that I came away from watching the match with the impression that I'd just been treated to a bad imitation of Djokovic vs Nadal, only in skirts. But that could be just me.
 
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iri10

Rookie
Incidentally, back in November 2013 there was a discussion on WTA vs. ATP forehands, and in the first five pages Bouchard's strokes came up numerous times:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=483378

Perhaps worth revisiting; she hadn't cracked the top 30 yet when that discussion was happening, and now she's going to finish Wimbledon ranked either 7th or 6th. Whether her forehand is typical WTA, ATP, or some weird b_stardized hybrid of the two, it (plus her mental strength) appear to be doing the job.

That said, I do feel that if Kvitova plays anywhere near her peak, Bouchard won't be taking home the trophy. The peak of Kvitova's game on grass is greater than Bouchard's, at this time (and perhaps always? Too early to tell).
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
It's very weird. She just kind of squats and takes a full roundhouse swing. Mindless ballbashing.

She does what ever it takes to, umnn, I don't know...WIN! WEIRD???? All you dudes looking for "finesse" and old school S and V..guess what..IT"S NOT WHAT WINS NOWADAYS!!!

Do you clowns ever stop and think why they play a certain way? IT"S THE STYLE THAT CURRENTLY PRODUCES RESULTS! Trust me, if you could do it, and you can't, you would.
 

Sander001

Hall of Fame
People tend to equate unorthodox/"not by the book" with bad/flawed technique. From a coaching standpoint, this is wrong. Bouchard's technique might look a little odd, but it's still very efficient. And with her aggressive/hug the baseline/take the ball early style of play, the more compact the strokes the better. But when she's rushed, i.e. when the ball is hit hard right at her, the "oddness" of her technique is magnified because she can't get proper shoulder turn so it looks like she squats/lunges at the ball. This is more a positional/movement/footwork issue (getting out of her own way) than any perceived technical issue with her groundstrokes, and it can be fixed with a couple more years of strength and conditioning (building a better/stronger core).
Good post, nice to see not everybody around here is completely clueless about the sport.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Her strokes are terrible but she can get away with it because of today's ultra powerful racquets. Give her a wood racquet and she would pretty much suck.

She wins mostly because of her mental toughness and determination. She's just like another Sharapova.

Nevertheless, I picked her to win Wimbledon before the tournament started.
 

Down_the_line

G.O.A.T.
To answer your first question, I watched the game without my pink rose-tinted glasses.

To answer your second, I can only say that I came away from watching the match with the impression that I'd just been treated to a bad imitation of Djokovic vs Nadal, only in skirts. But that could be just me.

You haven't answered the question at all. What about Bouchard and Halep's play gave you the impression they were trying to play men's tennis?

I think it's just you. I've seen several people comment on the ugly aesthetics of her technique, which is a fair comment, but I haven't seen anyone say anything close to that. You're over-analyzing I think. She's just a very talented tennis player with weird looking groundstrokes. Maybe she stands out from the rest of the WTA because she actually plants her feet at the baseline and hits the ball early. Does she look as flawless as Agassi? No way, but she's pretty much doing the same thing.
 
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tlm

G.O.A.T.
I watched her strokes after reading about how bad her form is. I do not see what you super critics are talking about. To me she has great timing and her strokes are pretty good she cracks the ball very well. What I noticed was how slow she is, her court movement is what will hold her back some.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Wow lots of Bouchard enemies in here. Robotic, stiff, ugly. What the hell. Same type of nonsense they used to spew about Nadal. I can only wish her the same type of success :)
Amazing backhand, easy power and a certain fearlessness that reminds me a bit of young Seles (minus the noise needless to say).
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
Her strokes are terrible but she can get away with it because of today's ultra powerful racquets. Give her a wood racquet and she would pretty much suck.

Players who used wood rackets would have sucked at using modern rackets as well. Technique/coaching has evolved along with racket technology. It makes no sense to dissociate the two.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Players who used wood rackets would have sucked at using modern rackets as well. Technique/coaching has evolved along with racket technology. It makes no sense to dissociate the two.
Well, guys like McEnroe used to use a wood racquet and he'd been doing pretty well over the past two decades with his modern racquet. In any case, there would have been no need to change technique/coaching if they just left things alone. There was nothing wrong with wood racquets. People quite enjoyed tennis with them.
 
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