Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by SoCalDominates, Mar 14, 2009.
Hey Brad, I'm pretty sure the guys who made it happen went to college .
i wouldn't doubt the possibility that DB could make a career of doubles if he wanted to
i mean treat huey is top 40 in the world in dubs, and teams like sock-oudin that find eachother right before the tournament win grand slams sometimes, it doesn't seem that hard
probably about the same level tennis as futures singles (maybe slightly exaggerating for effect, but not really, leander paes could probably still win dubs titles at 80 years old if he wanted to, i've watched courtside as he toyed with people in the first couple rounds of grand slams)
haha, well played
He got lucky today since he had nothing to lose and there was no pressure on him and the guy from Texas ( i believe 20 Nat ) didn't give it his all and was singing a song , thinking of a girl , considering schoolwork and lost to a 16 yr old 1 and 3
nice win! - maybe moving on the the post-round-robin stuff if he takes care of harvard guy, which he should
btw - hess olesen was 80 in the college singles rankings end of last yr, and 42 now in the preseason ones they create by taking away graduating players and players not currently competing (like rola, frank, etc) - so he's not anywhere near 20 in the country - as much as you "believe it" - this isn't like peter pan where things exist because people believe in them
For us were "developing" a player who is 16 still growing (hopefully filling out ) has a great win loss ratio in the (jrs.) toughest area in the US (So Cal) and is up playing guys 4 to 5 years older and is matching them shot for shot taking them 3 sets beat one today.
My question to him on the phone was "how is the new serve motion holding up" ? Cause whether he wins or loses were there for 2 reasons the hits against solid players and tweaking his serve motion.
What I like is how much everyone points out he is losing to college guys, 3 sets or not it is a loss but "He is a Jr." and at this point we are focused on the development so what he does up there does not matter Right?
1 in the nation or 200 its college its good hits ! The no.1 player from last year was playing LA this year and walked around on court complaining after every point ,something I expect from a young female jr. during that time of the month but once again its college tennis !
I am so happy that the collision is now entering the multiple vehicle arena. It makes slowing down and watching so much more fun.
the player you have mentioned has a great work ethic, yeah !
publicly trashing steve johnson is a great way to get a scholarship offer from peter smith! (not that DB would ever get one anyway, i remind you)
keep it up, one day you're going to be wishing your son had even a sniff of the type of career that SJ is developing right now (couple US open wins this year)
At least your right , when most so-called educated people would ask about us homeschooling there first question was "what about his social life " can you believe that educated people worried wether he had friends when it came to us schooling ? good one , you know what schools for !
Schools are for what you want to get out of it. Brad, Dennis Nuguyen (however you spell it) is not going to Harvard to come out and play pro tennis, nor is he going there for girls, or parties. He's going there for one reason and you know what that reason is. Dennis Novikov, come on man...what he's going to open the Novikov law firm...seriously. He's getting out of it what he wants man...get the picture
Don't argue with people over the benefits of school or no school. Who cares, everyone gets what they want out of it. Period.
Now can you people please keep arguing over the benefits of taking some college dude to three sets that's way more fun.
For the record what you "do in public" is there for people to comment on ,I call it for what it is , You complain on the court excessively, throw your rattle"I mean racket" argue with your opponent over and over, throw your racket out of a stadium like good ole Donny Young In other words disgrace the sport , I will point at it , if you don't want me to point don't act this way !
where you at school ? have them enroll you in a comprehension class , "Want to go proooooo not loooking forrrrrrr scholorshippppp" OOOOOOOkaaayyyyyy, wont be asking for one from PS
Dennis N . is a solid kid who I like and who has always been a solid kid on and off court , has had his goals I have talked with him about and as the uneducated person I have encouraged him to go after his goals and let nothing get in the way of it , wished him the best but then again thats coming from a uneducated position.
Dennis is a class act was raised right.
haha, well recently you've made comments such as "i'll let you know if plans change" and mentioned scholarship offers a lot, so who knows what your definitive position is on whether there's any possibility of college tennis in DB's future
but yeah it's OOOOOkaaaayyyy with me if you want to close some of the doors that his hard work is opening, and especially humorous if you're doing so without even consulting with him (you know, the guy that is actually accomplishing these things while you're trying to figure out how space shuttles work)
The win over Hess-Olesen of Texas is very impressive. I have no idea that it says anything about a pro career, because DB is just 16 and probably needs to be about 20 before I would try to judge that possibility, but today's win was very impressive (and unexpected to me).
Let's be honest, folks: We were all waiting for DB to play someone lower in the ITA rankings than Hess-Olesen (like maybe an unranked Harvard player) in order to get a win this weekend. Two losses to good players and one win over a Harvard guy would be pretty encouraging for DB. He has already exceeded expectations.
Well you are in the minority here , these college guys are playing amongst their peers so they are not playing their best against these jrs. so how is any win here over a college guy impressive ?
Remember you have to have confidence ,believe you can do it, so knowing a Jr. like DB knows he has nothing to lose,no pressure, he already is coming in with a negative mind set so there is no way he can win !
What I want to know is if this is how all the guys on here meassure things how do you drum up some real competition?
some dummy in the White house closed the program nothing to figure out !
first of all, i do think the win today is impressive, i'm on record a couple times predicting he'd win at least one this weekend (but yeah, thought it would be more like harvard and less like texas)
but, the easiest way to silence the "real competition" doubters comes in a few years in the futures circuit - i think it's reasonable to doubt the effort of college players in a fall tournament they may not care too much about - it's not reasonable to doubt the effort of someone fighting to make it on the pro tour and earn a check that pays for their next week of travel / coaching / food
so, all that talk of effort (some reasonable - like whether peliwo really cared about losing a couple games, or whether hess olesen cares whether he makes it out of the round robin and thus misses some more schoolwork...and some unreasonable as well) will be gone in a couple years once he's playing tour events
President Bush Announces New Vision for Space Exploration Program
"The Shuttle's chief purpose over the next several years will be to help finish assembly of the International Space Station. In 2010, the Space Shuttle -- after nearly 30 years of duty -- will be retired from service." -GWB
Now the ambulance is finally arriving ... When the likes of Steve Johnson has to go to Izmir Turkey to play a frig... challenger. That's when the men are men and the sheep are nervous. A few years it will be too late. I won't bore you why. But it will be.
Hey why not just bypass Futures, and Challengers, lets just hit the 1000 series. Straight to it. Sirens, are going off...:shock:
a couple - though i would sum up their futures / challengers efforts more as an experiment in "it'll be cool to see how good i can get in 2ish years totally focused on tennis, and i'll get to see some cool places around the world, and maybe even play against the future federer on some random court somewhere that i can tell my kids about" rather than a very serious effort to make a career out of pro tennis like DB's plan
who knows - maybe it's like the latest batman movie where you can only summon the energy to jump across that chasm when you're all-in without a rope and don't have a back-up plan you're comfortable with - but i'd rather be the guys i know that had solid college degrees to fall back on when they didn't make the jump - the other ending is a little bit messy
Seems to keep happening.
a question not completely related to Brad.
So USTA juniors are 7:9 against those college guys. I would think that the college guys would win a great majority of those matches since they are older and have more match experience. 7:9 seems pretty close to me. Is it that those juniors are so good? Or that college guys are not that great?
pretty typical for the juniors to do well in this event - usually even better than this year it seems - quoting from the document posted top of page 18:
"Last year the USTA juniors won five of eight matches on Day 1 and two years ago, led by Jack Sock, the squad went 6-2. Also last year, the USTA had two players (Connor Farren and Alexios Halebian) win their respective round-robin pools and advance to the quarterfinals with both winning one round in the Shootout before falling in the semifinals by 10-7 scores.
Two years ago, Halebian also won his pool, as did Mitchell Frank but both were beaten in the first or quarterfinal Shootout round."
you're putting highly ranked juniors against guys that aren't highly ranked college tennis players:
- best texas player (who DB just beat) finished last year #80 ITA singles rankings
- best cal player (ben mclachlan) finished last year #35 ITA singles rankings
- no georgia player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no illinois player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no stanford player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
- no harvard player in this event was ranked end of last year in singles
so, even without speculating on how much these guys care about their results in this exhibition-type event that really just seems to eat up more of their time if they get out of the round-robin (yes, one guy does get a wild card for winning it, but as you can see above with their college success, none of them are going to do much with that wild card) - even trying their hardest during the college season last year these guys aren't exactly world-beaters
someone feel free to check my quick (and possible sloppy, but i doubt it) Ctrl-F work on the final 125 ranked singles players from last year:
and after reading what i wrote, just want to restate - i am impressed w/ DB's win regardless - didn't think he was going to take out a guy who's been playing at the top of UT's lineup
but that's not because i think hess-olesen is a college player who's going to do anything on tour with his tennis - he won't - it's just because i doubted that DB was even at the level of college players low on the ITA singles rankings - perhaps i'm wrong on that, but not putting it all on one match
hesitant to respond to this, since this poster really only argues in soundbites rather than anything substantive..but sure i'll humor this particular soundbite with one response:
not exceeding my expectations, that's for sure - he's won 1 of his last 7 matches by my count (last two matches at the zoo, then us open, then futures quali, then three college player matches)
*did worse than i expected at zoo - i didn't see him doing so poorly against an unseeded player in consos, winning a total of one game
*same as i expected at us open - peliwo crushed him
*same as i expected in futures quali - a solid college player, giron, took care of him
*slightly better than i expected in this college player stretch - i said in past posts he'd win 1 or 2 depending on his grouping, but didn't think he'd take a guy like hess-olesen if i'm being honest, so there's one 'exceeding expectations' point to DB
who has posted expectations that he continues to exceed? we still talking about TCFs D2 banter from years ago? or did someone say he had no chance of winning matches this weekend?
the main expectations i see on this board are that he won't have a successful money-making ATP career - feel free to rub it in years from now if those expectations prove wrong, but it's not going to happen
If this is true then please answer this question why would a college kid playing a match against a junior scream out in anger over a few missed shot and smash his racket on the ground ? Also the other 2 players we played were yelling out after missed shots , why would they yell if it doesnt matter and they dont care ?
The final question why would I encourage my player to go to college to hang out with people with serious issues ??
I honestly hope all people and coaches on here think of development the same way you do , TCF and you are on the same dock but the more the better , this is very encouraging for us to have the mind set here in the USA to be as close to yours as possible .
Please you and TCF continue to spread your thinking to as many that are on the same road as us it will make it easier having so many with unbelief ,doubt, fear and everything else that goes with failing . I really do thank guys .
BTW he got lucky again today I told him to make it go 3 and he listen.
yeah, i agree with tball's posts in general, and his sense that college players don't really get anything out of this tournament besides some practice is on point (again, the wild card that's out there as a carrot doesn't mean much to players of this quality that can't do much with that WC) - but yeah, the guys aren't out there trying to lose even if they're maybe giving something south of 100% effort, and i'm sure hess-olesen was kinda pissed about your kid smacking him yesterday
beating an unranked guy from harvard isn't luck - he's better than those guys, i've predicted that win all along
No its luck the college guys don't care, don't bring there best ,remember they are D1 here not Jr college players 4 years older , the jr has nothing to lose no pressure ect. ,,
what else do you and TCF say ? Oh wait DB is not athletic "AKA black" he has no chance, he is D2 bound , oh wait He is no.7 nationally in the 18's with 2 years to go , how will he ever get around the curve of development ?
no.7 with 2 years left he is way behind schedule !!
Now let me educate you on what is called competition, when you are on center court looking across the net with a 6'5 16 yr old serving big and hitting big and you have the a good size crowd watching , all this "they dont care BS" you guys on here spit out cause you have never been in that situation is ridiculous .
these guys (D1) have been competing since they were 8 or 9 years old , they have turned that fire on every time they have stepped on the court for a good 10 yrs or more !
all of a sudden they step out there and they dont care , you guys just reassure me to always point him away from Higher Ed. if thats the case.
haha i've never said he's D2 bound and fairly sure i've never commented on his athleticism or race- but that's funny stuff right there
as for "no chance" - if we're talking money-making successful ATP career - then yes, 99.99% no chance is my repeatedly-stated opinion in some form or another, put me on record for that as many times as you like
ps - did he get out of the round robin to the quarters? how does the tie-break work between 2-1 players in a group?
I understand you more then you think , I was a guy that had fast hands ,great footwork ,solid jaw and did not have the people behind me to push me and make me strive to get better and go after the pros as a welterweight , I see Oscer , Shane and others who went on and made it trust me it hurts and I get jealous of those guys wishing i had what they have but I am where I am and wish them the best .
You were a kid who played tennis , your parents dropped you off didn't take much interest in you , you fell by the wayside and you are stacking huge college debt and you are jealous of a kid who at 16 already has his choice of any D1 and most likely is gonna skip it to pursue a dream you couldn't even think of at 18 being a 2 star recruit !!
Trust me I feel your pain !
i'm currently laughing my @ss off, just so you know
tweets i just read indicate hess-olesen advances because he also was 2-1 but won a higher % of sets
if DB had beaten harvard guy in straights he'd be advancing out of group play
good coaching, no1coach!
he is out by a set he said .
DB said his win today in 2 or 3 would not have mattered,, Like I said he is working on his serve and hitting practice with these guys , if he won the event it was a bonus .
[edit - retracting a couple corrections i made to no1coach's guesses - to make this thread less likely to become about me]
the @ustacollege10s 1:20pm tweet disagrees my friend - good coaching!
You are correct on that but we head down to IMG in Nov will asked them what we missed out on ,
Different sub. They interviewed DB on Radiotennis.com can you see if there is and archive so we can hear the matches covered over the last couple of days ?
re part 1: cool, please sign a contract, I beg you - like you i'm not interested in seeing what kind of college player DB becomes - i want to see what happens once he closes that door - so make it happen in Nov!
re part 2: nope - i did enough nadal research for you yesterday - and talk about matches doesn't mean much to me - i prefer the scorelines or seeing them if possible - so you can find that chatter if you're interested
Lets see he is 2 years away from playing college guys , went to and event where he played toe to toe shot for shot with college guys that are 4 and 5 years older, has proved he can compete throughout his jr phase (no.7 Nat) boys 18's and in 2 years from now will be filled out and will be plowing through the pro system .
This really is not that difficult to calculate the math .
absolutely agree, he's ready to leave the college possibility behind, take some IMG money, you've got a sure thing!
I've read a lot of stuff written about this kid for the last year or so by you and others.
Including lately that no top D1 coach would want him.
The way some of you post, I would think we were talking about some 3 star player and a completely delusional dad.
Instead you are talking about a kid who is a blue chip, #1 to #3 in his class, and apparently top 10 in the 18's.
Obviously, this is a very talented kid who at the bare minimum will be recruited by top D1 coaches.
Yet several of you state repeatedly how no top D1 coach would want him, blah blah blah.
Yeah okay, he keeps exceeding your posted expectations though I suspect that is only because of the joy with which some of you seem to have in tearing down this kid because you don't like his dad or whatever.
The reality is Deiton is clearly one of the best 16 year olds in the country right now. Perhaps he will continue to improve and have a shot at the pros, perhaps he will play college tennis.
Who knows. The way some of you post, one would think he was a total scrub.
i've only posted about DB since his loss to redlicki at the zoo, I believe, but sure others have posted for longer
i have stated that i don't think the very top coaches such as peter smith, boland, diaz have interest...yes, multiple times...that has not been disproven, i still believe the same thing
by some of them, sure, I don't doubt that (though the dad backed out on his offer to forward me e-mail proof of top 20 program offers when i took him up on that, so maybe no offers from the top tier yet) - but not by the very top few I have listed repeatedly, I don't think
not mine, i already covered this - he fell short of my expectations at the zoo, matched them at some tournaments (like the us open and futures - where my expectation was him getting bounced in his first match), and slightly exceeded them this weekend
he exceeds mine by:
getting a scholarship from USC, UVA, or UGA
by having a long and successful ATP career
do you have evidence that either has happened yet? i'll be waiting, but not responding to you anymore unless you provide such
Do you realize who your coming against , a kid in college with serious loan debt other coaches on here who haven't even provided a video of what they've done yet they are bagging on yes a top player that is way ahead of the curve already and if you get them to realize the common sense your using as you look at the situation you are gonna end all my fun on here if you get them thinking !
So please you are correct and I yhank you for your insight but please don't speak like this again , these guys may stop talking this way and I will lose the proof I use with DB to steer him from higher learning. Thanx again though
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