Brad Gilbert : Federer's reached his highest level in 2017

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
not just confidence vs djokovic, but ability to sustain higher level for longer (in AO 17-early 18. he improved his fitness to an extent and aggressive baselining less tiring than his 14-15 game I guess)

better pre-final in USO 15 compared to AO 17, but also faced weaker competition

AO 17 fed is definitely taking atleast 2 sets off USO 15 djoko
Fed went 5 sets vs. Nishikori/Wawrinka/Nadal.

All 6 sets lost he played subpar. Are you seriously comparing that to facing prime/peak Djokovic and saying Fed had better sustain level?

Bold: I didn't see you factoring in competition when comparing Wimb 15 with Wimb 17.
Murray of Wimb 15 is arguably better than any opponent Fed played in 2017 in any match and he straight set him. Djokovic is a level above from that.
Maybe he pushes 2015 Djoko to 5, but it's a maybe. He needed a good dip from Djoko to do it in 2014 before that.

Last sentance, disagree too. He would play Djokovic close, get tight and lose in 4 sets. Fed of AO 17 was inspired, but he never faced the ballhitting quality 2015 Djokovic provides, hence why he had so much confidance to execute on his shots in a BO5.

The sets he lost in the 2017 F were also downright mediocre/bad play from him. You think with such dips he would be picture perfect to almost certainly take the other two sets against a much harder opponent?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Fed went 5 sets vs. Nishikori/Wawrinka/Nadal.

All 6 sets lost he played subpar. Are you seriously comparing that to facing prime/peak Djokovic and saying Fed had better sustain level?

Bold: I didn't see you factoring in competition when comparing Wimb 15 with Wimb 17.
Murray of Wimb 15 is arguably better than any opponent Fed played in 2017 in any match and he straight set him. Djokovic is a level above from that.
Maybe he pushes 2015 Djoko to 5, but it's a maybe. He needed a good dip from Djoko to do it in 2014 before that.

Last sentance, disagree too. He would play Djokovic close, get tight and lose in 4 sets. Fed of AO 17 was inspired, but he never faced the ballhitting quality 2015 Djokovic provides, hence why he had so much confidance to execute on his shots in a BO5.

The sets he lost in the 2017 F were also downright mediocre/bad play from him. You think with such dips he would be picture perfect to almost certainly take the other two sets against a much harder opponent?
I did factor in competition while talking about Wim 15 Murray & Wim 17 Dimi/Raonic and fed's performances vs them.

Of course berdych in Wim 17 semi played well, not far behind Wim 15 Murray. But while fed played pretty well in that semi, he didn't play as well as in the above 3 matches. Still well enough to take it in straights, mind you.

Fed's ground game was better in Wim 17 compared to Wim 14 final as was the returning obviously. So not sure what your point is there.

AO 2017, no, fed wasn't subpar in 4th set vs Nishi or 4th set vs Nadal.

4th set vs Nishi, fed actually played a brutal return game, but Nishi miraculously managed to hold on. Next game, little loss in level from fed and Nishi got the break.
4th set vs nadal, fed wasn't great, but not sub-par either. nadal started using more body serves and made it tougher on the return in this set. fed adjusted in the 5th set.

may have to re-check, but 4th set vs Wawa wasn't that bad either from fed from what I remember. not sharp, but not bad either.

1st set vs Nishi, 3rd set vs Wawa and 2nd set vs nadal were definitely below par.

Fed was inspired because got a mental break and had practised groundstrokes sufficiently enough in the break. Federer hadn't won in a slam match vs nadal after Wim 07 and was able to do it in AO 17 final.
Nishi was hitting the ball pretty well in their AO 17 4th round match (the most similar opponent you could get to Djokovic I guess) and federer adjusted after a poor start. Of course nishi didn't have novak's serve, but novak didn't serve particularly well in USO 15 final either.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fed went 5 sets vs. Nishikori/Wawrinka/Nadal.

All 6 sets lost he played subpar. Are you seriously comparing that to facing prime/peak Djokovic and saying Fed had better sustain level?

Bold: I didn't see you factoring in competition when comparing Wimb 15 with Wimb 17.
Murray of Wimb 15 is arguably better than any opponent Fed played in 2017 in any match and he straight set him. Djokovic is a level above from that.
Maybe he pushes 2015 Djoko to 5, but it's a maybe. He needed a good dip from Djoko to do it in 2014 before that.

Last sentance, disagree too. He would play Djokovic close, get tight and lose in 4 sets. Fed of AO 17 was inspired, but he never faced the ballhitting quality 2015 Djokovic provides, hence why he had so much confidance to execute on his shots in a BO5.

The sets he lost in the 2017 F were also downright mediocre/bad play from him. You think with such dips he would be picture perfect to almost certainly take the other two sets against a much harder opponent?
The problem with 2015 Fed was that he wasn't tested mentay by anyone outside Djokovic unlike 2017 Fed
 

ElisRF

Hall of Fame
So that makes 2005 Safin pretty clearly better than any version of Djokovic at the AO doesn’t it?
You can make this case when talking about the AO 2005 semi and the last set and a half of the AO 2005 final from Safin but it is very hard to bet against the 2011 Djokovic or the 2013/2016 SF at AO but the speeds and surfaces did vary at AO so some might give Marat a better chance.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You can make this case when talking about the AO 2005 semi and the last set and a half of the AO 2005 final from Safin but it is very hard to bet against the 2011 Djokovic or the 2013/2016 SF at AO but the speeds and surfaces did vary at AO so some might give Marat a better chance.
2nd set from Safin in AO 2005 final was very good as well (though not as much as the last set and half)
 

ElisRF

Hall of Fame
2nd set from Safin in AO 2005 final was very good as well (though not as much as the last set and half)
I guess and the AO 2004 QF and semi vs Rod and Andre was also a great level too but those first 2 jumped to my mind first.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
I dunno guys, Novak has a scary high peak at the AO as we saw in some of his matches in 2008, 2011, 2013, 2016, and probably 2019 as well. Like, that match vs. Ferrer in 2013? Or the first couple of sets in the 2016 semis? To insist he’s not even as good as peak Safin there even at his best seems a little hard for me to swallow.

And I do think Fed was just a little bit better in 2004 and a fair bit better in 2007 than 2005 at the AO so I don’t know if you should even resort to the argument that Safin beat a peak Federer. Prime Fed for sure. Just not peak. And he still very nearly lost that match so he could do so against a version of Djokovic playing at a similar or better level, and I know Djokovic has reached those heights before.

There’s also the surface we have to consider.
 

ElisRF

Hall of Fame
I dunno guys, Novak has a scary high peak at the AO as we saw in some of his matches in 2008, 2011, 2013, 2016, and probably 2019 as well. Like, that match vs. Ferrer in 2013? Or the first couple of sets in the 2016 semis? To insist he’s not even as good as peak Safin there even at his best seems a little hard for me to swallow.

And I do think Fed was just a little bit better in 2004 and a fair bit better in 2007 than 2005 at the AO so I don’t know if you should even resort to the argument that Safin beat a peak Federer. Prime Fed for sure. Just not peak. And he still very nearly lost that match so he could do so against a version of Djokovic playing at a similar or better level, and I know Djokovic has reached those heights before.

There’s also the surface we have to consider.
I personally think Federer was a tiny bit better in AO 2005 than AO 2004 and I don’t think AO 2007 was that much better those runs but I agree on Safin vs Djokovic.
 
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RS

G.O.A.T.
I dunno guys, Novak has a scary high peak at the AO as we saw in some of his matches in 2008, 2011, 2013, 2016, and probably 2019 as well. Like, that match vs. Ferrer in 2013? Or the first couple of sets in the 2016 semis? To insist he’s not even as good as peak Safin there even at his best seems a little hard for me to swallow.

And I do think Fed was just a little bit better in 2004 and a fair bit better in 2007 than 2005 at the AO so I don’t know if you should even resort to the argument that Safin beat a peak Federer. Prime Fed for sure. Just not peak. And he still very nearly lost that match so he could do so against a version of Djokovic playing at a similar or better level, and I know Djokovic has reached those heights before.

There’s also the surface we have to consider.
The old saying was Djokovic loses time travel matches but wins them in real life ;)
 
I dunno guys, Novak has a scary high peak at the AO as we saw in some of his matches in 2008, 2011, 2013, 2016, and probably 2019 as well. Like, that match vs. Ferrer in 2013? Or the first couple of sets in the 2016 semis? To insist he’s not even as good as peak Safin there even at his best seems a little hard for me to swallow.

And I do think Fed was just a little bit better in 2004 and a fair bit better in 2007 than 2005 at the AO so I don’t know if you should even resort to the argument that Safin beat a peak Federer. Prime Fed for sure. Just not peak. And he still very nearly lost that match so he could do so against a version of Djokovic playing at a similar or better level, and I know Djokovic has reached those heights before.

There’s also the surface we have to consider.
Djokovic's so-called peak is all just a weak era bluff, if only true titans like peak GOATerer or Godfin or GOATpras were standing in his way they would've shown him the true heights of the mythical peak.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Djokovic's so-called peak is all just a weak era bluff, if only true titans like peak GOATerer or Godfin or GOATpras were standing in his way they would've shown him the true heights of the mythical peak.
Seek serious help babe! You're delusional! Weak era? It doesn't hold water except for Fedal sycophants who can't stand the state of affairs when it comes to Goat-dom! :-D
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's so-called peak is all just a weak era bluff, if only true titans like peak GOATerer or Godfin or GOATpras were standing in his way they would've shown him the true heights of the mythical peak.
When I did the time travel matches with other post it was Djokovic oppenents that lost more than a peak Djokovic did.
 
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