Brad Gilbert: "Nadal Double GS Will Equal Fed's Accomplishments"

HoyaPride

Professional
He's an idiot then. Tennis is not boxing.
He didn't say it was the only thing that mattered. The Double GS was the most important thing, he said. But the fact that Nadal has thoroughly dominated Federer weakens Fed's argument for GOAT status and strengthens Nadal's. That's what he was saying.
 

Buffster

Rookie
Even if Nadal wins on sunday, Federer is still slightly in front IMO. He will definitely be overtaken in the near future though. That doesn't matter, champions come and go and records are there to be broken.
 

robert.s

Professional
He didn't say it was the only thing that mattered. The Double GS was the most important thing, he said. But the fact that Nadal has thoroughly dominated Federer weakens Fed's argument for GOAT status and strengthens Nadal's. That's what he was saying.
The double GS thing doesn't mean much if you have something like 2AO, 2WIM, 2USO and a dozen FO's. You're still mostly a FO specialist, that is not an ATG on neither slam outside the french.
 

Xemi666

Professional
Not yet. But if he wins on Sunday it's a given he'll pass Federer's 17, so... It would be just a matter of time really.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Not yet. But if he wins on Sunday it's a given he'll pass Federer's 17, so... It would be just a matter of time really.
Exactly. this is just bandwagonning.

The man is still 3 slams behind. Let him win them first and then we'll talk
 
The double GS thing doesn't mean much if you have something like 2AO, 2WIM, 2USO and a dozen FO's. You're still mostly a FO specialist, that is not an ATG on neither slam outside the french.
doesn't mean much? almost every player -- heck, almost every champion -- has never accomplished a career grandslam. let alone two! and it doesn't mean much?!
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
doesn't mean much? almost every player -- heck, almost every champion -- has never accomplished a career grandslam. let alone two! and it doesn't mean much?!
When Nadal wins 3 more slams then it will mean a lot.

For now it is not yet significant.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
The double GS thing doesn't mean much if you have something like 2AO, 2WIM, 2USO and a dozen FO's. You're still mostly a FO specialist, that is not an ATG on neither slam outside the french.
Except that's not the case for Nadal. It would be his 14th Major. Not his 8th. Gilbert is talking about the sum of his actual accomplishments, not some stupid hypothetical, with the dominant H2H over Fed tipping the scales in his favor.
 

robert.s

Professional
Except that's not the case for Nadal. It would be his 14th Major. Not his 8th. Gilbert is talking about the sum of his actual accomplishments, not some stupid hypothetical, with the dominant H2H over Fed tipping the scales in his favor.
The h2h counts for nothing since one is 5 years older than the other. The h2h may be relevant, to a minor extent, in Nadal - Djokovic rivalry, which is more competitive because they belong in the same era.

I don't wanna start again with the h2h, but Federer never met Nadal during his prime in the two slams he OWNED at the time (AO and USO). Federer performs better at 32 in HC slams, than Nadal did prior to 2009.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
The h2h counts for nothing since one is 5 years older than the other. The h2h may be relevant, to a minor extent, in Nadal - Djokovic rivalry, which is more competitive because they belong in the same era.

I don't wanna start again with the h2h, but Federer never met Nadal during his prime in the two slams he OWNED at the time (AO and USO). Federer performs better at 32 in HC slams, than Nadal did prior to 2009.
And Federer never met Nadal when he didn't have a tummy ache, a cold, back pain, blah, blah, blah.

Bottom line is that Federer has constantly trailed Nadal in their H2H. And the H2H started when Fed was the No. 1 player in the world and Nadal was a 17 year old upstart.:-?

I guess we should excuse away all of Tom Brady's interceptions since he's 36. We all know that games and matches don't count unless you're 24 years old and playing in conditions that are as favorable as possible to you.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
doesn't mean much? almost every player -- heck, almost every champion -- has never accomplished a career grandslam. let alone two! and it doesn't mean much?!
Then how many players have reached 5 finals at all majors? And how many have wwon 4 at 3 diff majors?

Same logic
 

robert.s

Professional
Except that's not the case for Nadal. It would be his 14th Major. Not his 8th. Gilbert is talking about the sum of his actual accomplishments, not some stupid hypothetical, with the dominant H2H over Fed tipping the scales in his favor.
Everybody can take Nadal over Federer in terms of achievement. It's perfectly fine to believe Nadal > Federer, but not based on the H2H, which depends a lot on the circumstances, circumstances that were almost always bad for Federer and favorable for Nadal. Probably R. Nadal would have had a favorable h2h over Federer anyhow, regardless on where and when their matches happened, but the score would have been a lot tighter.
 
Then how many players have reached 5 finals at all majors? And how many have wwon 4 at 3 diff majors?

Same logic
wait a minute. did i ever say that federer's achievements are rubbish? huh?! you were the one who said a double grandslam means nothing much and i am challenging that. why are we talking about federer's achievements here?!
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
I think when he reaches 17 slams, he will be considered higher than Roger.

He is going to be only three behind, with his pet slam coming up. So, he will sitting pretty on 15 slams at least by the end of this year.
 
I think when he reaches 17 slams, he will be considered higher than Roger.

He is going to be only three behind, with his pet slam coming up. So, he will sitting pretty on 15 slams at least by the end of this year.
If he wins the AO he will be considered greater . Well one more match left and we will know for sure .
 

Messarger

Hall of Fame
Nadal is losing to Wawrinka on sunday, so I don't really understand Gilbert's pre mature excitement. Fed literally gifted Nadal this match. Stan will not be so kind. He is hungry for his first slam.
 

robert.s

Professional
Bottom line is that Federer has constantly trailed Nadal in their H2H. And the H2H started when Fed was the No. 1 player in the world and Nadal was a 17 year old upstart.:-?
It only shows the irrelevance of the H2H. If the H2H always decides who is better, then Nadal was better than Federer during 2005-2008. Which is clearly false. So, the H2H doesn't always decide who is better, therefore, it is a flawed criteria.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
wait a minute. did i ever say that federer's achievements are rubbish? huh?! you were the one who said a double grandslam means nothing much and i am challenging that. why are we talking about federer's achievements here?!
I did not say it is not a great acheievent. you are mistaking me with someone else.

What i really said is that WHEN he win 17 slams it will come into debate. Right now it is insignificant since he is still 3 slams behind
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
I did not say it is not a great acheievent. you are mistaking me with someone else.

What i really said is that WHEN he win 17 slams it will come into debate. Right now it is insignificant since he is still 3 slams behind
Last time I checked 17-13 = 4.

He is 4 slams behind UNTIL HE WINS.

However, should Nadal achieve the double career slam then it is a very significant achievement that he has over Roger whether you want to admit it or not.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Last time I checked 17-13 = 4.

He is 4 slams behind UNTIL HE WINS.

However, should Nadal achieve the double career slam then it is a very significant achievement that he has over Roger whether you want to admit it or not.
Agree completely.

I said 3 because nadal it 100% nadal is winning tomorrow. Even you would agree with that
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
If he wins the AO he will be considered greater . Well one more match left and we will know for sure .
Not for me, he ain't.

And don't give me the whole critics say blah blah blah. I don't give rats $£% what the critics say. As the great Arnold says, only listen to yourself.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
It only shows the irrelevance of the H2H. If the H2H always decides who is better, then Nadal was better than Federer during 2005-2008. Which is clearly false. So, the H2H doesn't always decide who is better, therefore, it is a flawed criteria.
That's NOT what Gilbert said. You're simply turning it into a discussion solely about the H2H. I was just saying that you can't make excuses galore to explain the H2H away, which was what you were doing.

Brad said that a Double GS would be equal to all Fed has accomplished. Then he said that the H2H would tilt things in Nadal's favor. You can argue with that all you want, but the point is not hard to understand.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
Not for me, he ain't.

And don't give me the whole critics say blah blah blah. I don't give rats $£% what the critics say. As the great Arnold says, only listen to yourself.
Well, if that's the case, then Rafa would never be considered the GOAT. Fed fans wouldn't admit that even if Rafa won 3 CYGS's. You would just see a proliferation of threads complaining about MTOs, butt picking, and the uglification of tennis.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Agree completely.

I said 3 because nadal it 100% nadal is winning tomorrow. Even you would agree with that
No I don't agree. First of all, the match is on Sunday, not tomorrow.

Secondly, Stan is not playing like before, he has really shown that he can play top level tennis on the AO courts and on the big stage. Nadal will have his work cut out no doubt.

Sure Rafa's never lost a set to Stan in the past so it is very unlikely that Stan will be able to win 3, but if he gets the first set, then the belief will be flowing through his mind and it will be very tough for Rafa.

Nothing is a given.
 

robert.s

Professional
That's NOT what Gilbert said. You're simply turning it into a discussion solely about the H2H. I was just saying that you can't make excuses galore to explain the H2H away, which was what you were doing.

Brad said that a Double GS would be equal to all Fed has accomplished. Then he said that the H2H would tilt things in Nadal's favor. You can argue with that all you want, but the point is not hard to understand.
Well, that is rubbish. He's saying that a double GS = 3 slams. Why not 5 then, why not 10? It is not a logic argument, it is an opinion with no factual support, while 17>13 is a mathematical and logical conclusion.

And, as I said, the H2H does not count. When Nadal reaches 17, he can be named the greatest based on achievements and no one will argue about that.
 
And, as I said, the H2H does not count. When Nadal reaches 17, he can be named the greatest based on achievements and no one will argue about that.
Wrong.

Nadal wins this AO and Feds "paper" status as goat is over. Just watch.

My predictions have never been wrong.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Well, if that's the case, then Rafa would never be considered the GOAT. Fed fans wouldn't admit that even if Rafa won 3 CYGS's. You would just see a proliferation of threads complaining about MTOs, butt picking, and the uglification of tennis.
Look. This whole GOAT thing is just pathetic. I don't watch tennis to see who is GOAT, I watch it to kill time and have fun. And no one will tell me who is greater than who, I make my own mind up.

And beside, I hate this GOAT talk. People living through other people's accomplishments is all I see. Why can't we all just watch the tennis, discuss the match, and then move on. Why all this we need to make sure our team wins? Really? Is that how small and insignificant you see your lives, that the only way to get any purpose is to live through someone else? Sad really.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
Well, that is rubbish. He's saying that a double GS = 3 slams. Why not 5 then, why not 10? It is not a logic argument, it is an opinion with no factual support, while 17>13 is a mathematical and logical conclusion.
Huh? Saying that any player is the GOAT is an opinion. And he offered factual support. You just refuse to give those facts the same weight as he does, which is well within your right.

And, as I said, the H2H does not count. When Nadal reaches 17, he can be named the greatest based on achievements and no one will argue about that.
It doesn't count to you. But it does count to other people and will undoubtedly be the subject of discussion among tennis historians for generations to come.
 

Xemi666

Professional
If Nadal wins on Sunday, it's a matter of time till he gets to 17, IMO. When he gets 17 he's above Federer in my book (unless Federer wins more, of course).
 

robert.s

Professional
Huh? Saying that any player is the GOAT is an opinion. And he offered factual support. You just refuse to give those facts the same weight as he does, which is well within your right.



It doesn't count to you. But it does count to other people and will undoubtedly be the subject of discussion among tennis historians for generations to come.

No he didn't. He gave his oppinion without backing it up. It's like someone says that Fed 5 Wimbledons + 5 USO's in a row counts more than Rafa's 13 majors. Can't pe proven right or wrong. Actually, it can be proven wrong since 10<13.

Doubt it. Does it seem to you that people talk a lot about the H2H between Agassi and Sampras for instance? I don't even know what the H2H is if I don't look it up on Google.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
No I don't agree. First of all, the match is on Sunday, not tomorrow.

Secondly, Stan is not playing like before, he has really shown that he can play top level tennis on the AO courts and on the big stage. Nadal will have his work cut out no doubt.

Sure Rafa's never lost a set to Stan in the past so it is very unlikely that Stan will be able to win 3, but if he gets the first set, then the belief will be flowing through his mind and it will be very tough for Rafa.

Nothing is a given.
The match-up itself is a nightmare for Wawrinka. I really do not give him a chance at all
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
If Nadal wins on Sunday, it's a matter of time till he gets to 17, IMO. When he gets 17 he's above Federer in my book (unless Federer wins more, of course).
What if Nadal wins 17 and then Federer ins 18?

How funny would it be if it happens :)
 

robert.s

Professional
If Nadal wins on Sunday, it's a matter of time till he gets to 17, IMO. When he gets 17 he's above Federer in my book (unless Federer wins more, of course).
And you may very well be in majority. No Federer fan could question you choice with arguments.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
And beside, I hate this GOAT talk. People living through other people's accomplishments is all I see. Why can't we all just watch the tennis, discuss the match, and then move on. Why all this we need to make sure our team wins? Really? Is that how small and insignificant you see your lives, that the only way to get any purpose is to live through someone else? Sad really.
I don't have a "team." I just enjoy the emotional devastation that results from Federer losses. It's a lot like seeing a religious fanatic's world crumble to pieces once he learns everything he believed in was a fraud.

Nadal fans aren't that fanatic, so it's not nearly as much fun poking at them.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I don't have a "team." I just enjoy the emotional devastation that results from Federer losses. It's a lot like seeing a religious fanatic's world crumble to pieces once he learns everything he believed in was a fraud.

Nadal fans aren't that fanatic, so it's not nearly as much fun poking at them.
Some fans really need to learn(myself included) that tennis is just a game. and nothing else
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
I don't have a "team." I just enjoy the emotional devastation that results from Federer losses. It's a lot like seeing a religious fanatic's world crumble to pieces once he learns everything he believed in was a fraud.

Nadal fans aren't that fanatic, so it's not nearly as much fun poking at them.
While I agree that some of the Federer worshiping has been absurd here, Nadal fanatics have certainly had their moments. They have shown that they can be just as bad, if given the opportunity. One side calling the other side bad is all that takes place here. Both are just as bad.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
The double GS thing doesn't mean much if you have something like 2AO, 2WIM, 2USO and a dozen FO's. You're still mostly a FO specialist, that is not an ATG on neither slam outside the french.
Such a desperate comment. Unlike Federer at the FO, Nadal was able to win more than a fluke major outside of his best, so he is not the specialist with the negative connotations of your post.
 

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame
if he wins on Sunday then conversation is over.

Nadal is the GOAT.

Fed simply can't be GOAT if the he has a record of 23-10 against a guy - that is a pounding/embarrassment.
 
Look. This whole GOAT thing is just pathetic. I don't watch tennis to see who is GOAT, I watch it to kill time and have fun. And no one will tell me who is greater than who, I make my own mind up.

And beside, I hate this GOAT talk. People living through other people's accomplishments is all I see. Why can't we all just watch the tennis, discuss the match, and then move on. Why all this we need to make sure our team wins? Really? Is that how small and insignificant you see your lives, that the only way to get any purpose is to live through someone else? Sad really.
While I agree that some of the Federer worshiping has been absurd here, Nadal fanatics have certainly had their moments. They have shown that they can be just as bad, if given the opportunity. One side calling the other side bad is all that takes place here. Both are just as bad.
Good posts, man. That's why I get along with you pretty well even though we're on different side of the fence. At least, we share the same POV.

And bottom line, we just like our sports of Tennis, and are not blinded by TW fandom craziness.......:twisted:
 
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