Brothers in MMA, what do you think?

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Is Franky washed up just like his brother, Kenny? I know neither of them can fight nearly as well as they used to fight, but I didn't expect Franky to sink so quickly at 36. I really thought Franky might have had a few good years left in him. Opinions?
 

ogruskie

Professional
Did you watch GSP vs. BJ Penn 2 today? Absolutely crazy fight. I was disappointed to see BJ get thrashed and not even put up a fight.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
That was an old fight, but Frank fought Nick Diaz tonight and got whipped by a weak looking Diaz. JD Penn did look weak against GSP, but he did last 4 rounds which is better than most.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
you see the cyborg fight. lol at that fight. poor akano looked like a ragdoll in there. she had like 3-4 sub attempts just get thrashed.

i thought frank had a bad game plan. he went there trying to bang and that was not gonna work. he needed to use his inside leg kicks more and he didnt. after the fight i thought no way diaz hangs with ww or mw of the ufc. he would get owned hard.

big props to smith for his comeback. he got rocked in that second round. the guy has heart.

and the melendez fight went as expected. guy took the fight on a 1 week notice. he had no idea where he was after that punch.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
I had a feeling Scott would beat Benji because he always seems to pull out that one punch out of nowhere. I knew Benji was a tough guy, but Scott loves to play possum. It's his thing.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame



this was messed up. just not even funny that they did this. its like sticking bj penn in there with anderson silva. its so bad. i like strikeforce and think they will succeed where elite xc failed but they cant allow this crap to happen.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
I think JD Penn would actually do better against The Spider than Akano did against Santos. BJD is a lot more skilled than Akano every which way.
 
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35ft6

Legend
Is Franky washed up just like his brother, Kenny? I know neither of them can fight nearly as well as they used to fight, but I didn't expect Franky to sink so quickly at 36. I really thought Franky might have had a few good years left in him. Opinions?
Nick is no joke and 11 years younger than Shamrock. People like Couture are the exceptions who prove the rule that MMA is a young man's game. No, he's not as good as he used to be but a guy who won most of his fights by submission isn't going to do very well against a guy who's taller, a better striker, and a who has a better submission game. Really bad matchup. There are probably a few big name guys, strikers, who Frank could do well against, but Nick obviously wasn't one of them. With that said, Frank is getting a lot of fights because of the Shamrock name. He's not a top flight fighter. Never was.
 

35ft6

Legend
Is Franky washed up just like his brother, Kenny? I know neither of them can fight nearly as well as they used to fight, but I didn't expect Franky to sink so quickly at 36. I really thought Franky might have had a few good years left in him. Opinions?
Nick is no joke and 11 years younger than Shamrock. People like Couture are the exceptions who prove the rule that MMA is a young man's game. No, he's not as good as he used to be but a guy who won most of his fights by submission isn't going to do very well against a guy who's taller, a better striker, and a who has a better submission game. Really bad matchup. There are probably a few big name guys, strikers, who Frank could do well against, but Nick obviously wasn't one of them. With that said, Frank is getting a lot of fights because of the Shamrock name. He's not a top flight fighter. Never was.
 

NotAtTheNet

Semi-Pro
I haven't been too impressed from frank since he got pounded by Cung Le last year. Looks like its been downhill since that...

on a side note... who's the chick in the avatar?
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
heres a new one. Diaz said he could beat roy jones jr in a boxing match. he thinks he could out box one the best ever. even though roy jones is just about done he still would ko the crap out of diaz.

also shamrock is said to have a had a broken rib before the fight. i dont buy that but that is the report that some websites are saying.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Franky was used to going into fights with at least 1 injury, but it's not a good idea against a much taller opponent. Nick got dominated by KJ so there's no way he could touch Roy in a straight boxing match although Roy would lose for sure if they went mma.
 

GRANITECHIEF

Hall of Fame
Yeah, that was a pretty one sided fight. Frank seemed to have no answer to the quick and precise hands of Diaz. That body shot that dropped him near the end looked solid.

How bout Rogers vs Overeem. That might be good.

And of course we've got Anderson Silva v Leites and Liddell vs Shogun coming up on Sat nite.

Hopefully my buddy the iceman has patched up some of the holes in his stand up. He brought on a boxing coach that was supposedly very good at defense and positioning which would be good for chucky.

Silva via KO rnd 1
Liddell via TKO rnd 2.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
if shogun shows up in shape he wins. i like liddell but unfortunately his time is coming to an end.

leites shouldnt be in this spot. he won a bad decision against Marquart. nate got a point deducted for punching the back of his head when he never did. decisions in mma are just laughable.
 

35ft6

Legend
heres a new one. Diaz said he could beat roy jones jr in a boxing match.
During the Frank fight, one of the stupid commentators said Diaz's boxing skills were right up there with that of the best pro boxers. Insane. Diaz is tall and punches in bunches, but his hand speed and punching power is not even close to that of a top boxer. Roy Jones would toy with him in a boxing match. Roy could declare before the fight "I'm only going to throw 5 punches the whole bout" and pull it off. Diaz wouldn't land a glove on him. Just a totally different game.

If the Shogun we saw against Coleman shows up, Liddell should win. This fight is what's so great about MMA. There's no reason to think either of these guys will come in at anything near their best but just because of their contrasting styles, this fight is interesting. At their best, this match is a toss up, IMO, again, because of their styles. Shogun was just great all around, but arguably not outstanding, or top 5 in the world, at anything in particular. Chuck on the other hand, you KNOW what he's going to try to do in every fight, sprawl and brawl, looking to catch you with a knockout punch. This fight is a must win for both so probably one of THE very most interesting fights of the year.

Silva was kind of being a clown his last fight. Hope he comes back with the same killer instinct he showed in his first UFC fights.
 

Patrick_St

Rookie
I frankly think Dana White is a d1ckhead for not accepting Fedor Emilanenko to the UFC and then trash talking him afterwards. Fedor would rip the heavyweight division in the UFC apart, including that ignorant, roid-bulked hunk of flesh Lesner.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Dana wanted Fedor, but Fedor didn't want to be held on a tight leash. Fedor wanted to compete in sambo competitions and his management team wanted some Russian M-1 fighters to come aboard, but Dana wasn't having it.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
Silva was kind of being a clown his last fight. Hope he comes back with the same killer instinct he showed in his first UFC fights.
i was suprised when he tried to help cote up. big ups for cote for not taking it. i wanna nate marquardt get another shot. i think he has a chance. not a big one but a chance. i think everyone will wanna see anderson bump up to lightheavyweight.


the thing with fedor wasnt dana's fault. fedors managment screwed it up big time. they wanted so much. every ufc fighter only fights for the ufc. there is no cross promoting fedor wanted to be an exception. also they wanted dana to build training facilities in russia and sign alot of russian talent. so he walked away.
 

Kobble

Hall of Fame
I don't see how Fedor screwed things up. He did what was good for him. Regardless of what UFC says about Anderson Silva, Fedor is the best, and most dominant (at least I've seen). I would like to believe the best has some leverage.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
it wasnt fedor. it was his managment that screwed it up.they asked for way to much. he really wanted him to the ufc but there is a limit he is willing to pay. they wanted new training facilities and there fighters signed to the ufc. 2 things dana wasnt gonna do and never said he would. also fedor loves doing sambo tournaments and the ufc will not allow its fighters to do any form of fighting outside of the ufc.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Dana should really court Fedor some more because the HW division is looking weak atm. You know things are bad when the most stacked division in the UFC is the WW. The scary thing about Fedor is that he has the frame to dominate at the LHW and the MW, but he chooses to stay at HW which is not a good look for him although performancewise he can not be questioned. Fedor will never win any bodybuilding contests, but I'd like to see his fat ass at least give the LHW division a try.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
the ufc will not bend to the fighters. they never have and never will. i hate that they do that but at the same time they consistently put on the best fight cards. i like strikeforce, affliction, and dream but they do not consistently give you the cards that the ufc does. seriously nate quarry vs jason mcdonald is not being shown on saturday night. on a strkeforce card thats 2nd best fight.
 

35ft6

Legend
it wasnt fedor. it was his managment that screwed it up.they asked for way to much.
The UFC is the Microsoft of MMA right now, and I don't think Fedor's management asked for too much, the UFC's demands on its fighters are incredibly restrictive. From prohibiting their fighters from cornering non-UFC fighters at non-UFC events... and except for the very top fighters, UFC guys aren't making much:
Brock Lesnar: $450,000 (includes $200,000 win bonus)
def. Randy Couture: $250,000

Kenny Florian: $80,000 ($40,000 win bonus)
def. Joe Stevenson: $35,000

Dustin Hazelett: $28,000 ($14,000 win bonus)
def. Tamdan McCrory: $10,000

Gabriel Gonzaga: $110,000 ($55,000 win bonus)
def. Josh Hendricks: $8,000

Demian Maia: $40,000 ($20,000 win bonus)
def. Nate Quarry: $25,000

Aaron Riley: $8,000 ($4,000 win bonus)
def. Jorge Gurgel: $10,000

Jeremy Stephens: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Rafael dos Anjos: $4,000

Mark Bocek: $18,000 ($9,000 win bonus)
def. Alvin Robinson: $7,000

Matt Brown $16,000 ($8,00O win bonus)
def. Ryan Thomas: $3,000
If you're making 10 grand a fight and fight only when the UFC says you're going to fight, what are you going to do? And it's not just about money, it's about ring rust. Some guys don't want to fight only 2 or 3 times a year. Even for somebody like Florian, $80,000 a fight is not a lot for a pro athlete.

I have nothing against Dana White, in fact I've slowly become a fan, and it took a monopoly minded organization helmed by a complete egomaniac to take MMA this far this fast. But moving forward, there needs to be more fight organizations and more freedom for fighters. Fedor is one of the few fighters in the unique position to challenge the UFC and refuse their terms, for most fighters the UFC is their only real option. For some people, being owned by the UFC isn't such a bad deal. The UFC will take from being a nobody to somebody kind of famous, making $5,000 a fight as opposed to much less fighting at some Indian casino in Montana. But what's in it for Fedor to be taken over by Dana White, a guy who has talking crap about Fedor for years.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
i agree with you that dana white screws fighters big time. but hes not gonna be building things for fedor in russia. he had a big fight with jon fitch over the rights on the video game coming out and threatened to put his contract on hold basically not allowing him to finish it out and never being able to fight under another promotion. hes doing the same thing to roger huerta right now for speaking against him. he has done alot for the sport but right now hes not giving the payouts to the guys that make the sport. its crazy the amount of work these guys do to get to this level only to not make alot of money.
 

35ft6

Legend
i like strikeforce, affliction, and dream but they do not consistently give you the cards that the ufc does.
At this point, for the most part, I feel like I don't really know how good a fighter is until they come to the UFC. So even for guys like Ovareem, Yamamoto Kid, Mousasi, Jacares, Aoki, Eddie Alvarez, etc, the jury is still kind of out.

At the same time, I really like Dream's tournament format. And the last Affliction event was overall much better than anything UFC has put out in a while.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
ill look but i believe i heard it from a dana white interview when the entire deal went bad. he came out and said everything he offered and what Fedors managment came back with.
 

35ft6

Legend
^ I don't know if I really believe Dana White. Like all good promoters, he tends to stretch the truth. They say a compromise is when both parties walk away unhappy. I get the feeling that Dana White believes compromise is when he walks away with everything.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Dana's into making money which is not a bad thing, but he has a huge head, which is a bad thing. Dana needs to bend a little because only crazy people don't bend. Crazy people and people with a whole lot of leverage.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
he has a whole lot of leverage. this is why i hope strikeforce gets big. it would help mma fighters a long way. right now dana has the biggest mma org. if someone comes by and challenges fighters salaries will come up so he can hold onto them.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
It's great that we have mma brothers on a tennis board. Try to find tennis players or even tennis fans on an mma message board. You'll get flamed quicker than a current Ken Shamrock fan.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
i saw a guy on one say nadal would be a beast in a cage. he was quickly flamed. i agree with that statement. such athleticism would tear through people.

im glad ken got caught juicing. he surely will go away now. he doesnt help the sport at all. i still think he gets promoted because of his wwf days. messed up fact was that he was dating the woman that was playing his sister. that had to confuse a few little kids that have not figured out wrestling story lines are fake.
 
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