Brown/Rosol/Rafa and Lightning in a Bottle......

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Just randomly looked up Brown and Rosol's career statistics, and it's shocking how they can play SO WELL and then go back to not being able to beat anyone. As good of tennis as Rosol is capable of playing, he hasn't made it out of the qualies in a slam since 2017, and Brown has only made it to the 3rd round of a slam twice. Of course they were always journeymen, but if you're capable of playing so well, you'd think at least once in a blue moon they would remember how well they played against Rafa and actually summon some of that :unsure: look at the fear and drama Rosol had in Nadal in the 2014 rematch even....


Toni was about to pop a blood vessel :-D

And let's not get started on how easy Brown made things look....



Obviously 2015 was a low point in Nadal's career alltogether, so some of it is on him and his declined movement on grass. He really had to figure out how to fight through the first week again without hurting his knees the past few years and has done a great job at it. But damn these dudes can play. Or do they just hate Nadal? They could lose every match they play in a year and somehow if they faced Rafa at Wimby tomorrow I feel they'd turn into Bizarro 8-B



 

JaoSousa

Professional
Here is the bigger question: Why did Nadal decline so much on grass? Brown was really an anomaly because of his style, which never matched up well with Nadal's. His serve and volley style doesn't allow Nadal's loopy style. But Rosol? Darcis???

These are guys that Rafa should have and could have beaten. The only reason Nadal's 2013 season isn't up there as one of the ATG seasons is the loss to Darcis. Even more, he lost in straight sets!!
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
Rosol played absolutely great to beat Nadal in the 2012 edition of Wimbledon. It was a shock for many at the time for Rafa to lose in the second round. He was always in the finals before that since 2006.

I don't think Nadal played good in the matches against Darcis and Brown. He was still Nadal but his tennis level wasn't. He played better in 2014 and 2017 but lost to two big serve players in Kyrgios and Muller.

Kyrgios had outplayed him but in the Muller match, I think the ghost of his past failures at SW19 had dented Nadal's confidence and he'd lose a tight 5th set to his opponent.
 

Gazelle

Legend
Here is the bigger question: Why did Nadal decline so much on grass? Brown was really an anomaly because of his style, which never matched up well with Nadal's. His serve and volley style doesn't allow Nadal's loopy style. But Rosol? Darcis???

These are guys that Rafa should have and could have beaten. The only reason Nadal's 2013 season isn't up there as one of the ATG seasons is the loss to Darcis. Even more, he lost in straight sets!!
The loss to Rosol...ok. But Darcis? I saw the match and still don't understand how Nadal lost to him. Darcis is like the no-weapon average height journeyman that Nadal eats up for breakfast 99% of the time.
 

Martin J

Semi-Pro
Rosol played absolutely great to beat Nadal in the 2012 edition of Wimbledon. It was a shock for many at the time for Rafa to lose in the second round. He was always in the finals before that since 2006.

I don't think Nadal played good in the matches against Darcis and Brown. He was still Nadal but his tennis level wasn't. He played better in 2014 and 2017 but lost to two big serve players in Kyrgios and Muller.

Kyrgios had outplayed him but in the Muller match, I think the ghost of his past failures at SW19 had dented Nadal's confidence and he'd lose a tight 5th set to his opponent.
I have similar thoughts on his defeats (though I think he was horrible against Darcis and quite bad against Brown).

Re Muller match, I actually think Nadal played quite solid match (the best of all those that he lost during his "slump" - 2012/2017), but he faced an opponent who had troubled him with his serve (sick placement, nasty slice) since the first time they faced each other on grass. I never put this loss among those "bad" ones Nadal has had (Rosol, Darcis, Brown, Nick...).
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
The loss to Rosol...ok. But Darcis? I saw the match and still don't understand how Nadal lost to him. Darcis is like the no-weapon average height journeyman that Nadal eats up for breakfast 99% of the time.
Toni said Nadal wasn't ready at Wimby 13 and all and he borderline didn't care after going so hard since coming back and that his knees were shot and he was irritated in practice. Keep in mind that Wimby 2012 was his only early loss there at that point and it took a GOATING Rosol to do it. Had he saw 14/15/16 coming he probably would have cared.

 

Gazelle

Legend
Toni said Nadal wasn't ready at Wimby 13 and all and he borderline didn't care after going so hard since coming back and that his knees were shot and he was irritated in practice. Keep in mind that Wimby 2012 was his only early loss there at that point and it took a GOATING Rosol to do it. Had he saw 14/15/16 coming he probably would have cared.

I normally don't like Nadalic excuses but in this case I see no other explanation. Darcis played well, but Nadal was horrible.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
Here is the bigger question: Why did Nadal decline so much on grass? Brown was really an anomaly because of his style, which never matched up well with Nadal's. His serve and volley style doesn't allow Nadal's loopy style. But Rosol? Darcis???

These are guys that Rafa should have and could have beaten. The only reason Nadal's 2013 season isn't up there as one of the ATG seasons is the loss to Darcis. Even more, he lost in straight sets!!
Rafa has always been vulnerable to big hitters, aside from Dreddy, all of the guys to upset him have been big, powerful players who hit flat and deep.
 

NADALalot

Semi-Pro
Those guys know they have to hit the cover off the ball in order to beat Rafa, so that all-out aggression leads to their best tennis.
Whereas usually (vs. the rest of the tour) those guys consider defense a viable option for some points.
Defense is not an option when they play Rafa, so they never hesitate to attack, and that brings out their best qualities.
 

ibbi

Legend
Brown is a great grass court player. The fact that Wimbledon is barely a grass court anymore is reason he hasn't done better there, but watch him against Nadal in Halle I think it was 2014, or 13, and he absolutely destroyed him way worse than he did at Wimbledon. It's a surface he's very happy on, and Nadal during this period before the heatwaves of 18/19 and the baking of the courts became very bad on.

Rosol played lights out that one match, the closing of the roof and the cutting off of whatever momentum Nadal might have gotten from taking the 4th just helped his cause.

In 2013 he just was rubbish. I said this once on here and one of Rafa's crazies gave me a detailed explanation of all the knee issues he had in 2013 complete with pictures and stuff, but it boils down to the fact that he had devolved into a hopeless grass court player.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the bigger question: Why did Nadal decline so much on grass? Brown was really an anomaly because of his style, which never matched up well with Nadal's. His serve and volley style doesn't allow Nadal's loopy style. But Rosol? Darcis???

These are guys that Rafa should have and could have beaten. The only reason Nadal's 2013 season isn't up there as one of the ATG seasons is the loss to Darcis. Even more, he lost in straight sets!!
And even more than that, his resurgence on grass has been at least moderately surprising for everyone. I mean, it's pretty impressive to go from losing to Darcis and Rosol etc... to almost winning a Wimbledon title in 2018 (because he clearly would've beaten Anderson), and making the SFs again in 2019.
 

JaoSousa

Professional
And even more than that, his resurgence on grass has been at least moderately surprising for everyone. I mean, it's pretty impressive to go from losing to Darcis and Rosol etc... to almost winning a Wimbledon title in 2018 (because he clearly would've beaten Anderson), and making the SFs again in 2019.
Yeah, I think for the most part it may have been some unlucky draws that prevented him from going deep in those years.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
And even more than that, his resurgence on grass has been at least moderately surprising for everyone. I mean, it's pretty impressive to go from losing to Darcis and Rosol etc... to almost winning a Wimbledon title in 2018 (because he clearly would've beaten Anderson), and making the SFs again in 2019.
Nadal for Wimbledon 2021 8-B
 

Hitman

Legend
Highlights from the Iconic Nadal v Rosol match from W 2012. Just insane scenes at the end. Rosol was like a caged tiger that was waiting for the door to open.

 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I still can't understand why the **** so many people were cheering for Rosol!
Or Brown lol. Wimby had a weird period with Nadal for a few years where it really seemed like they were perfectly fine with him losing. He went through that at the FO too but in earlier years. I can't imagine them cheering on a nobody against him now.
 

Hitman

Legend
I still can't understand why the **** so many people were cheering for Rosol!
Did you see the energy in that last set? The fans could smell that a historic upset was in the making. Nadal had not lost before a W final since 2005, that was seven years ago, and had also made 8 out of the last 9 slam finals, so this would be one of those matches that would be remembered instead of another second round win. Rosol was also hitting the stuffings out of the ball, 90mph backhand returns were the norm, it just stirred up a frenzy, plus with the roof closed, all that noise got compounded...people just were overwhelmed by the energy and the moment. It is still talked about today, left its mark on tennis for sure.
 

JaoSousa

Professional
Did you see the energy in that last set? The fans could smell that a historic upset was in the making. Nadal had not lost before a W final since 2005, that was seven years ago, and had also made 8 out of the last 9 slam finals, so this would be one of those matches that would be remembered instead of another second round win. Rosol was also hitting the stuffings out of the ball, 90mph backhand returns were the norm, it just stirred up a frenzy, plus with the roof closed, all that noise got compounded...people just were overwhelmed by the energy and the moment. It is still talked about today, left its mark on tennis for sure.
And he was absolutely fearless. That look in his eye in the last game was some serious stuff.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
The loss to Rosol...ok. But Darcis? I saw the match and still don't understand how Nadal lost to him. Darcis is like the no-weapon average height journeyman that Nadal eats up for breakfast 99% of the time.
Nadal was injured IIRC. And just generally burned out. He looked like he didn't even want to be there for that match, and you never see that with Nadal.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Did you see the energy in that last set? The fans could smell that a historic upset was in the making. Nadal had not lost before a W final since 2005, that was seven years ago, and had also made 8 out of the last 9 slam finals, so this would be one of those matches that would be remembered instead of another second round win. Rosol was also hitting the stuffings out of the ball, 90mph backhand returns were the norm, it just stirred up a frenzy, plus with the roof closed, all that noise got compounded...people just were overwhelmed by the energy and the moment. It is still talked about today, left its mark on tennis for sure.
None of the following Denadalizations lived up to that one. All the 2014-17 upsets were mostly chalked up to Nadal being in a slump, but Rosol ousted Nadal when he was still at his peak. Easily within the top 5 upsets of all time.
 

Hitman

Legend
None of the following Denadalizations lived up to that one. All the 2014-17 upsets were mostly chalked up to Nadal being in a slump, but Rosol ousted Nadal when he was still at his peak. Easily within the top 5 upsets of all time.
Yes, hence why it became iconic over time. The others that came after it never lived up to the dramatic conclusion of this one.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Yes, hence why it became iconic over time. The others that came after it never lived up to the dramatic conclusion of this one.
That match broke through the aura of invincibility Nadal had - it was unthinkable back then that he would lose before the later rounds (barring injury). I genuinely thought it was impossible for such an upset to occur, and I almost never consider upsets impossible.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the bigger question: Why did Nadal decline so much on grass?
Toni said in 2015 it was because after Rafa's endless issues with his knees, he was always hesitant to play on grass because it requires a deeper knee bend on groundstrokes. I don't know if that's actually true, but it's what Toni said at the time.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Toni said in 2015 it was because after Rafa's endless issues with his knees, he was always hesitant to play on grass because it requires a deeper knee bend on groundstrokes. I don't know if that's actually true, but it's what Toni said at the time.
Perhaps that was the issue, but really it isn't too surprising looking back each individual one. 2012 he had the tendinitis which prompted his 7 month break, 2013 he practically didn't show up and had knee problems, and next 4 years he was washed up everywhere. His decline on grass coincided with his decline everywhere, just more pronounced.
 

Hitman

Legend
That match broke through the aura of invincibility Nadal had - it was unthinkable back then that he would lose before the later rounds (barring injury). I genuinely thought it was impossible for such an upset to occur, and I almost never consider upsets impossible.
Yes it did, remember he had just turned 26, had pushed Djokovic for six hours at AO and then dominated everyone at RG....for him to then get blown off in that last set at W by an unknown was bewildering and that bewilderment is what created excitement and buzz. Nadal always survived the first week scares at W....looks like he was about to get caught.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Yes it did, remember he had just turned 26, had pushed Djokovic for six hours at AO and then dominated everyone at RG....for him to then get blown off in that last set at W by an unknown was bewildering and that bewilderment is what created excitement and buzz. Nadal always survived the first week scares at W....looks like he was about to get caught.
This. He got pushed in early rounds once in a while, he just never lost those during his prime. Rosol proved it was possible.
 

Hitman

Legend
This. He got pushed in early rounds once in a while, he just never lost those during his prime. Rosol proved it was possible.
Then when Nadal starting losing year after year, the novelty wore off, because now he was expected to lose to someone, and when that happens, the losses don't stand out. The Rosol match will forever be remember though for the God crazy madness he unleashed for that one night.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Perhaps that was the issue, but really it isn't too surprising looking back each individual one. 2012 he had the tendinitis which prompted his 7 month break, 2013 he practically didn't show up and had knee problems, and next 4 years he was washed up everywhere. His decline on grass coincided with his decline everywhere, just more pronounced.
This is a very good point actually.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
Yes it did, remember he had just turned 26, had pushed Djokovic for six hours at AO and then dominated everyone at RG....for him to then get blown off in that last set at W by an unknown was bewildering and that bewilderment is what created excitement and buzz. Nadal always survived the first week scares at W....looks like he was about to get caught.
26 is the age where things start to fall apart.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
I agree, but then how do we explain Fed, Nadal and Nole? Especially Fed winning a slam at age 36!?
Djok is really the only exception. Fedal declined significantly after that age. Fed turned 27 in 2008, Rafa in 2014? Those were watershed years for both of those guys and they lost their auras of invincibility.

That they have been able to hang on this long after the fact is a testament to their GOAThood.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I agree, but then how do we explain Fed, Nadal and Nole? Especially Fed winning a slam at age 36!?
Fed was 26 in 2008. It was the year his grip on the tour started to weaken.
Rafa was 26 in 2012 when the 7-month break happened.
Nole didn't follow this trend, recording some excellent results in 2013 and 14.
 

Nitish

Professional
Fed was 26 in 2008. It was the year his grip on the tour started to weaken.
Rafa was 26 in 2012 when the 7-month break happened.
Nole didn't follow this trend, recording some excellent results in 2013 and 14.
He did start late though , Fed was 22 when he won wimby in 2003 . Although Novak won his first slam in 2008 , his real dominance started in 2011 when he was 24 and continued till 2016 when he was 29.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
Djok is really the only exception. Fedal declined significantly after that age. Fed turned 27 in 2008, Rafa in 2014? Those were watershed years for both of those guys and they lost their auras of invincibility.

That they have been able to hang on this long after the fact is a testament to their GOAThood.
Djoker is an exception because compared to Fedal, he underperformed until the age of 27.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Fed was 26 in 2008. It was the year his grip on the tour started to weaken.
Rafa was 26 in 2012 when the 7-month break happened.
Nole didn't follow this trend, recording some excellent results in 2013 and 14.
Nole still lost some matches in 2013-2014 that Fedal wouldn't have lost.
 
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