Brutal Costs Associated with Making Noah Rubin a Pro Tennis Player

[haqq777]

What I'm suggesting is that there will a large standard deviation, such that many players are considerably to one side or other of the mean.

Sure. Any research on that? I'm interested to know more.

 

[haqq777]

Top 100 is in the top 1-2% of possible outcomes, and it would be silly to end up viewing it as a failure.

Way to early to predict Noah Rubin will be a top 100 player though - that too for a decade.

 

[droliver]

Rubin was one of the world's best junior players (junior Wimbledon champion) and ranked #1 in the NCAA for part of his one year at Wake Forest. He's not just some guy off the street.

He's got some physical challenges with his size and defensive game, but there's a number of similar style players who were very competitive. I think he made a big mistake walking away from a $300K+ full scholarship to Wake Forest for a flyer at the pro level, but there have been very few players (Isner, Johnson) who stayed in college to get a degree who've made a dent on tour as they lose too much time not being able to train full time.

 

[sundaypunch]

.........

Don't get me wrong, I'm a father myself and I would do anything to help my son follow his dream, but where does one draw a line? I never really heard of Noah Rubin as a talented prospect. Maybe I wasnt paying attention. The article claims hundred of thousand of dollars were spent on Noah Rubin's training and the kid's tennis had an effect on the family's financial and emotional stability as well.

To me it seems like programming a kid from a very young age, brain washing him/her telling them they need to be professional players. I know a lot of parents are culprits here having seen how competitive parents can get. And that is why there is a dismal success ratio for teen prodigies in US making it big, in my opinion.

........... Is he naturally that talented that he can get himself in the upper echelon of tennis greatness? At 19 he is barely 5'10 and 145 pounds. To be honest I do not even see him as a top level guy. I hope he proves me wrong (we can def use new up and coming tennis players here in the US of A) but so far he has seemed nothing extraordinary.

Maybe if I saw him practice and hitting I could change my opinion of him? Who knows. On TV replays he certainly does not stand out to me.

This is a tough crowd. He's young and brought his ranking from the 1000's last summer to the 300's now. He just played his first match at a slam and beat a top-20 player. I should not be surprised that equates to "nothing extraordinary" on the TW boards.

If you followed American tennis you would know that he had been the #1 ranked junior in the country for at least 5-years. He has wins against most of the other up and coming American players. He played in the Newport tournament last year and lost a tight 3-setter to Tatsuma Ito who was ranked just over 100. In 2014 he played in the Winston-Salem tournament and lost in a 3rd set tiebreak to Bradley Klahn who was ranked in the 110's.

As droliver said above, he's not just some guy off the street. He has the obvious issues that have been mentioned. I don't think anyone expects him to be a top-10 player but I would not be surprised to see him have a career like Donald Young.

 

[haqq777]

This is a tough crowd. He's young and brought his ranking from the 1000's last summer to the 300's now. He just played his first match at a slam and beat a top-20 player. I should not be surprised that equates to "nothing extraordinary" on the TW boards.

If you followed American tennis you would know that he had been the #1 ranked junior in the country for at least 5-years. He has wins against most of the other up and coming American players. He played in the Newport tournament last year and lost a tight 3-setter to Tatsuma Ito who was ranked just over 100. In 2014 he played in the Winston-Salem tournament and lost in a 3rd set tiebreak to Bradley Klahn who was ranked in the 110's.

As droliver said above, he's not just some guy off the street. He has the obvious issues that have been mentioned. I don't think anyone expects him to be a top-10 player but I would not be surprised to see him have a career like Donald Young.

"Nothing extraordinary" was in terms of overall game and weapons. If you see the Paire match again you will know what I'm talking about.

I do see your point however. My personal opinion is that he is not even close to being a top ten player on the tour. And with lack of that certain physicality, he will have a tough time staying on par with his peers. I also do not see him as a top 50 player.

If you followed American tennis you would know that he had been the #1 ranked junior in the country for at least 5-years.

Are you sure about that?

 

[haqq777]

Rubin was one of the world's best junior players (junior Wimbledon champion) and ranked #1 in the NCAA for part of his one year at Wake Forest. He's not just some guy off the street.

He's got some physical challenges with his size and defensive game, but there's a number of similar style players who were very competitive. I think he made a big mistake walking away from a $300K+ full scholarship to Wake Forest for a flyer at the pro level, but there have been very few players (Isner, Johnson) who stayed in college to get a degree who've made a dent on tour as they lose too much time not being able to train full time.

Never said he was some guy off the streets. Not sure how you misconstrued that. Having hit with some of the college players, I have huge respect for anyone who turn pro because it takes a lot of effort and determination. Nothing would please me more to see an American kid come up. I am just of the opinion that there is only so much he can tap in terms of potential because he lacks the physicality and the game. Look at Taylor Fritz. I am more confident about him being a much better and successful tour athlete than Rubin (barring injuries). It's nothing personal, I just don't see Noah as being someone who can hang with the big boys consistently.

 

[Kalin]

I wonder what Paire thought of him after getting beaten

 

[MasturB]

My question is, how much of the costs does the USTA cover once they decide they're going to invest in a junior?

Do they cover only coaching, or travel and tournament expenses as well?

My friend has a situation where he's coached his junior for 2 years now, and he did very well in the Orange bowl recently. The USTA recently asked his dad to let his kid train in USTA, but he'd have to drop my friend and go with a USTA coach. Dad told them hell no my buddy has brought his son to a higher level and wants to keep working with him. USTA balked, and offered to bring my friend aboard to continue coaching, but under the USTA umbrella. My friend turned it down though.

 

[Mcmullenp4]

Since Rubin upset 17th seed Paire, it got me reading a bit about the kid - I have not particularly followed Noah Rubin, but I came across this article from last year. I knew the costs associated with becoming a pro-tennis player were really high but I always think the individual talent and capacity should be kept in mind before going crazy about spending till you go broke or ultimately getting close to bankruptcy.

Here is the article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...becoming-the-world-s-631st-best-tennis-player - it was published in Aug last year so it's not that old.

Do you guys think spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on someone like Noah Rubin are worth it? The article points out that "The U.S. Tennis Association estimated in 2010 that the annual average cost to be a “highly competitive” professional tennis player was $143,000—including $70,000 for coaching and $60,000 for travel—and that only the 164 highest-ranked players on the men’s tour would have broken even with such costs".

Don't get me wrong, I'm a father myself and I would do anything to help my son follow his dream, but where does one draw a line? I never really heard of Noah Rubin as a talented prospect. Maybe I wasnt paying attention. The article claims hundred of thousand of dollars were spent on Noah Rubin's training and the kid's tennis had an effect on the family's financial and emotional stability as well.

To me it seems like programming a kid from a very young age, brain washing him/her telling them they need to be professional players. I know a lot of parents are culprits here having seen how competitive parents can get. And that is why there is a dismal success ratio for teen prodigies in US making it big, in my opinion.

Granted, in this case, maybe Noah wanted to become a pro from an early age himself and wasnt forced. And maybe he did win in early age But still. Is he naturally that talented that he can get himself in the upper echelon of tennis greatness? At 19 he is barely 5'10 and 145 pounds. To be honest I do not even see him as a top level guy. I hope he proves me wrong (we can def use new up and coming tennis players here in the US of A) but so far he has seemed nothing extraordinary.

Maybe if I saw him practice and hitting I could change my opinion of him? Who knows. On TV replays he certainly does not stand out to me.

Any avid fans of Rubin care to share info/thoughts on this?

most young players play usta i think so they get alot of exposure.. i might be wrong but i think noah rubin did all his tennis in johnny mcenroes school in new york so he might not of got all the hype other kids get since he didnt attent one of the southern tennis academies or something,.. just my guess.. not sure tho

 

[haqq777]

most young players play usta i think so they get alot of exposure.. i might be wrong but i think noah rubin did all his tennis in johnny mcenroes school in new york so he might not of got all the hype other kids get since he didnt attent one of the southern tennis academies or something,.. just my guess.. not sure tho

True. I read an article not too long ago where it talked about how his contemporaries went to certain proper tennis academies (Tiafoe, Mmoh, Fritz) whereas Noah stayed at home in NY and practiced with his dad and coach. He later joined Johnny Mac's school. Props to him: he beat both Tiafoe and Fritz on his way to becoming junior Wimbledon champ.

 

[Startzel]

I believe that the most reliable estimate used to be 10,000 children attempted to become a professional tennis player for every one who makes it into the top 100 at some point in his or her career. But I also think that that stat is from 20 years ago or so. It may well have increased since then.

The point is that the decision is made long in advance of any secure knowledge about how good the player is likely to be. In Rubin's case, it was probably pre-puberty and so his eventual size was unknown. It probably wasn't a wise decision, but most parents are predisposed to think that their child is the exception who can defy the long odds, while the USTA has to back a few young players.

They can do bone scans that are incredibly accurate. I had a mate that was a goalkeeper in the academy at Manchester United and at 11 or 12 they did a bone scan on him and told him he would only end up 5'10.5" so they released him. At adulthood he was 5'10.25".

 

[atatu]

I think he is headed for a decent pro career. He reminds me a lot of Paul Goldstein (not just because he's Jewish), same size, same playing style, I think Paul even had a big win in Australia at one point, beating Greg Rusedski in four close sets. As for Noah's arc, his ranking will improve steadily this year.

 

[courtking]

It definitely has an affect on the child too, dealing with all sorts of pressure and expectations. It is extremely hard to strike the right balance between motivating the child versus leading them into path of self-destruction. Kids are like sponges, they absorb everything going around them. The negativity and pressure gets to them more than their parents.

As a dad with 2 boys training hard every day I can tell you that it is a long expensive time consuming road for both of us. My 9 year old son has been trained by me since he was 4 years old and a 5 years old started when he was 2. I would be lying if I said I don't want them to turn pro but I am also reminding them the painful reality how tough it is to be a tennis pro. I cross train them with many different sports like swimming (for stamina, active recovery and height), badminton for over head, upper body strength and foot work. Table tennis for reflex, eyes training and mental toughness. Martial arts (muay Thai, wing Chung for self confidence and mental toughness). It is tough but we enjoy every second of it. It is getting easier as my older son grow up with his tennis skills improve exponentially.
I am really really tough on them during training but I don't pressure them to play tournaments. In facts I don't let them play any tournament under 12 but I have many drills and ways to make them perform under stress. stress is good. The poor little kid used to throw up when he got nervous or choke but after a while he now performs really well during stressful situation.
Any way, no coach better than your own parents. I have used a few different coaches but in the end it is a waste of money and time. Many successful pros train by their parents. My son is turning 10 next month and currently playing competitive against u14, u16 national team of Vietnam.

 

[haqq777]

As a dad with 2 boys training hard every day I can tell you that it is a long expensive time consuming road for both of us. My 9 year old son has been trained by me since he was 4 years old and a 5 years old started when he was 2. I would be lying if I said I don't want them to turn pro but I am also reminding them the painful reality how tough it is to be a tennis pro. I cross train them with many different sports like swimming (for stamina, active recovery and height), badminton for over head, upper body strength and foot work. Table tennis for reflex, eyes training and mental toughness. Martial arts (muay Thai, wing Chung for self confidence and mental toughness). It is tough but we enjoy every second of it. It is getting easier as my older son grow up with his tennis skills improve exponentially.
I am really really tough on them during training but I don't pressure them to play tournaments. In facts I don't let them play any tournament under 12 but I have many drills and ways to make them perform under stress. stress is good. The poor little kid used to throw up when he got nervous or choke but after a while he now performs really well during stressful situation.
Any way, no coach better than your own parents. I have used a few different coaches but in the end it is a waste of money and time. Many successful pros train by their parents. My son is turning 10 next month and currently playing competitive against u14, u16 national team of Vietnam.

Great post, and thank you for taking time out to reply.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

He almost got a set off Fed in the AU Open.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Brad Gilbert made the top ten.

Brad was #4 at one point.
That is what you class a world class professional.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Noah is now #177

 

[wangs78]

People are free to spend money as they wish. I do think that natural talent and a young player's own motivation go much farther than another $10,000 spent on more training. I also think that tennis is a sport where parents need to spend a minimum amount of money that is not insignificant to get a young player the coaching as well as competiton to develop. It's not like baseball or basketball where if you have the talent you'd get recruited for a school team and then be exposed to professional scouts.

 

[jussumman]

"Don't get me wrong, I'm a father myself and I would do anything to help my son follow his dream, but where does one draw a line?"

At ranking #164 - the break even point. He can't get past this, it's over.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Money that are spend without a thought about returns.

The sport, except for a very few, is a bad investment, if the purpose is to earn a living with it.

The other day I read that the main purpose of the students at the "highly regarded" Rafa Nadal academy is for the kids to get a place at a good school (whatever that means to the people that said it) and to learn to lead a responsible life.

If that is not an admission I don't know what is.

 

[FudgeControl]

Since Rubin upset 17th seed Paire, it got me reading a bit about the kid - I have not particularly followed Noah Rubin, but I came across this article from last year. I knew the costs associated with becoming a pro-tennis player were really high but I always think the individual talent and capacity should be kept in mind before going crazy about spending till you go broke or ultimately getting close to bankruptcy.

Here is the article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...becoming-the-world-s-631st-best-tennis-player - it was published in Aug last year so it's not that old.

Do you guys think spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on someone like Noah Rubin are worth it? The article points out that "The U.S. Tennis Association estimated in 2010 that the annual average cost to be a “highly competitive” professional tennis player was $143,000—including $70,000 for coaching and $60,000 for travel—and that only the 164 highest-ranked players on the men’s tour would have broken even with such costs".

Don't get me wrong, I'm a father myself and I would do anything to help my son follow his dream, but where does one draw a line? I never really heard of Noah Rubin as a talented prospect. Maybe I wasnt paying attention. The article claims hundred of thousand of dollars were spent on Noah Rubin's training and the kid's tennis had an effect on the family's financial and emotional stability as well.

To me it seems like programming a kid from a very young age, brain washing him/her telling them they need to be professional players. I know a lot of parents are culprits here having seen how competitive parents can get. And that is why there is a dismal success ratio for teen prodigies in US making it big, in my opinion.

Granted, in this case, maybe Noah wanted to become a pro from an early age himself and wasnt forced. And maybe he did win in early age But still. Is he naturally that talented that he can get himself in the upper echelon of tennis greatness? At 19 he is barely 5'10 and 145 pounds. To be honest I do not even see him as a top level guy. I hope he proves me wrong (we can def use new up and coming tennis players here in the US of A) but so far he has seemed nothing extraordinary.

Maybe if I saw him practice and hitting I could change my opinion of him? Who knows. On TV replays he certainly does not stand out to me.

Any avid fans of Rubin care to share info/thoughts on this?

He is still quite young, is he not? A next-gen player too, if I remember correctly.

He gave fed a reasonable run for his money this year at the AO. I think he can become a top 40 player in about 4 years or so. Top 10 in the next 4 years would be jumping to conclusions, although not impossible.

Raising any kid to play tennis is expensive. You have to pay for the training and workout fees (academies like IMG and others, as well as the gym perhaps), hire a trainer, buy their apparel and equipment, pay for lodging and food, possible tournament entry fees. Of course there are other costs that are not monetary, such as taking the time to oversee their training, practicing and training with them, taking time off your schedule to watch their matches, and setting lofty expectations for your child. it's very taxing, and it's becoming a lot like golf, where only the wealthiest of people can afford to raise their kids this way).