Budge vs. Riggs 1942 U.S. Pro Nationals

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Limpinhitter, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. KtM

    KtM Rookie

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    Interesting that gravity seemed a little faster back then.


    I guess this goes with that fringe variable earth gravity theory that supported dinosaurs immense bodies.
    http://www.dinox.org/
     
    #51
  2. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    No doubt that's right.
     
    #52
  3. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
    #53
  4. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Professional

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    Great info, good job! Here is the statistics about the World Pro series (which we discusses with Bobby) started on 26 Dec 1941 and finished on 5 Apr 1942 from the tennisbase. IMO it is more reliable than an article:
    N DATE CITY WINNER LOOSER
    1 26.12.1941 NEW YORK KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    2 26.12.1941 NEW YORK RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    3 27.12.1941 TRENTON KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    4 27.12.1941 TRENTON BUDGE, DON MAKO, GENE
    5 29.12.1941 WASHINGTON RIGGS, BOBBY BUDGE, DON
    6 29.12.1941 WASHINGTON KOVACS, FRANK MAKO, GENE
    7 30.12.1941 PHILADELPHIA KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    8 30.12.1941 PHILADELPHIA RIGGS, BOBBY MAKO, GENE
    9 1.1.1942 ATLANTIC CITY RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    10 2.1.1942 BALTIMORE KOVACS, FRANK MAKO, GENE
    11 2.1.1942 BALTIMORE BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    12 4.1.1942 ALBANY RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    13 4.1.1942 ALBANY BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    14 5.1.1942 BOSTON KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    15 5.1.1942 BOSTON RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    16 7.1.1942 HERSHEY KOVACS, FRANK PERRY, FRED
    17 7.1.1942 HERSHEY BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    18 8.1.1942 NEW HAVEN RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    19 8.1.1942 NEW HAVEN BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    20 11.1.1942 SOUTH ORANGE KOVACS, FRANK PERRY, FRED
    21 11.1.1942 SOUTH ORANGE BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    22 12.1.1942 CLEVELAND KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    23 12.1.1942 CLEVELAND RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    24 13.1.1942 PITTSBURGH BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    25 13.1.1942 PITTSBURGH RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    26 14.1.1942 CHICAGO RIGGS, BOBBY BUDGE, DON
    27 14.1.1942 CHICAGO PERRY, FRED KOVACS, FRANK
    28 16.1.1942 TORONTO BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    29 16.1.1942 TORONTO RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    30 17.1.1942 HAMILTON BUDGE, DON KOVACS, FRANK
    31 17.1.1942 HAMILTON PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    32 19.1.1942 OTTAWA BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    33 19.1.1942 OTTAWA BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    34 19.1.1942 OTTAWA RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    35 20.1.1942 BUFFALO BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    36 20.1.1942 BUFFALO PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    37 22.1.1942 INDIANAPOLIS RIGGS, BOBBY BUDGE, DON
    38 22.1.1942 INDIANAPOLIS PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    39 23.1.1942 LOUISVILLE STOEFEN, LESTER RIGGS, BOBBY
    40 23.1.1942 LOUISVILLE PERRY, FRED BUDGE, DON
    41 25.1.1942 ST LOUIS BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    42 25.1.1942 ST LOUIS PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    43 26.1.1942 KANSAS CITY PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    44 26.1.1942 KANSAS CITY BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    45 28.1.1942 OMAHA BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    46 28.1.1942 OMAHA RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    47 30.1.1942 EVANSVILLE BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    48 30.1.1942 EVANSVILLE PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    49 31.1.1942 RACINE RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    50 31.1.1942 RACINE PERRY, FRED BUDGE, DON
    51 1.2.1942 DULUTH BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    52 1.2.1942 DULUTH PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    53 2.2.1942 MILWAUKEE BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    54 2.2.1942 MILWAUKEE PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    55 3.2.1942 MADISON BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    56 3.2.1942 MADISON PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    57 3.2.1942 MADISON BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    58 4.2.1942 MINNEAPOLIS BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED

    the next in the next post ....
     
    #54
  5. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Professional

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    59 4.2.1942 MINNEAPOLIS PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    60 4.2.1942 MINNEAPOLIS BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    61 6.2.1942 DAYTON BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    62 6.2.1942 DAYTON RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    63 7.2.1942 SOUTH CHARLESTON BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    64 7.2.1942 SOUTH CHARLESTON RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    65 9.2.1942 ROANOKE PERRY, FRED STOEFEN, LESTER
    66 9.2.1942 ROANOKE BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    67 10.2.1942 CHARLOTTE PERRY, FRED BUDGE, DON
    68 10.2.1942 CHARLOTTE RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    69 11.2.1942 CHAPEL HILL PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    70 11.2.1942 CHAPEL HILL BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    71 12.2.1942 CHARLESTON BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    72 12.2.1942 CHARLESTON RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    73 13.2.1942 RICHMOND BUDGE, DON KOVACS, FRANK
    74 13.2.1942 RICHMOND PERRY, FRED RIGGS, BOBBY
    75 14.2.1942 AUGUSTA BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    76 14.2.1942 AUGUSTA KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    77 15.2.1942 MEMPHIS BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    78 15.2.1942 MEMPHIS PERRY, FRED KOVACS, FRANK
    79 19.2.1942 BIRMINGHAM RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    80 19.2.1942 BIRMINGHAM BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    81 23.2.1942 ATLANTA BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    82 23.2.1942 ATLANTA PERRY, FRED KOVACS, FRANK
    83 27.2.1942 WEST PALM BEACH RIGGS, BOBBY KOVACS, FRANK
    84 27.2.1942 WEST PALM BEACH BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    85 1.3.1942 MIAMI BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    86 1.3.1942 MIAMI KOVACS, FRANK PERRY, FRED
    87 5.3.1942 HOUSTON KOVACS, FRANK PERRY, FRED
    88 5.3.1942 HOUSTON BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    89 6.3.1942 SAN ANTONIO KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    90 6.3.1942 SAN ANTONIO BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    91 7.3.1942 GALVESTON RIGGS, BOBBY PERRY, FRED
    92 7.3.1942 GALVESTON BUDGE, DON KOVACS, FRANK
    93 10.3.1942 AUSTIN KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    94 10.3.1942 AUSTIN BUDGE, DON PERRY, FRED
    95 11.3.1942 ABILENE KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    96 11.3.1942 ABILENE BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    97 11.3.1942 ABILENE KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    98 12.3.1942 DALLAS KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    99 12.3.1942 DALLAS BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    100 12.3.1942 DALLAS KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    101 14.3.1942 TUCSON STOEFEN, LESTER KOVACS, FRANK
    102 14.3.1942 TUCSON BUDGE, DON RIGGS, BOBBY
    103 15.3.1942 PHOENIX RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    104 15.3.1942 PHOENIX BUDGE, DON KOVACS, FRANK
    105 17.3.1942 SALT LAKE CITY KOVACS, FRANK RIGGS, BOBBY
    106 17.3.1942 SALT LAKE CITY BUDGE, DON STOEFEN, LESTER
    107 19.3.1942 OGDEN BUDGE, DON KOVACS, FRANK
    108 19.3.1942 OGDEN RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    109 21.3.1942 SAN FRANCISCO KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    110 21.3.1942 SAN FRANCISCO RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    111 22.3.1942 OAKLAND KOVACS, FRANK BUDGE, DON
    112 22.3.1942 OAKLAND RIGGS, BOBBY STOEFEN, LESTER
    113 31.3.1942 LOS ANGELES RIGGS, BOBBY BUDGE, DON
    114 31.3.1942 LOS ANGELES KOVACS, FRANK TILDEN, BILL
    115 4.4.1942 SANTA BARBARA RIGGS, BOBBY BUDGE, DON
    116 4.4.1942 SANTA BARBARA KOVACS, FRANK STOEFEN, LESTER

    As a result of this Budge has 44 wins and 16 losses. The wins are vs Riggs (15), Kovacs (5), Mako (1), Perry (15), Stoefen (8).
    Riggs has 28 wins, Kovacs - 23, Perry - 19, Stoefen - 2.

    I doubt that this article has published the above info. But somewhere there are some smart guys (not me) who found it so detailed. I am always trying to be as most accurate as I could.
     
    #55
  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ivan, thanks, but TB's information on this tour is incomplete. I've been communicating by email with TB's main researcher, nearly every day for the last few months, because they want my help in filling out what they are missing. And in the process they are now finding new results that I'd never had; so we are exchanging a lot of information. Our focus has been entirely on the postwar pro tours. We have not yet touched anything prewar. This is where TB is missing a lot.

    TB saw your post about the '42 tour, and my post with the published results, and they told me that the published results are to be trusted more than their own (TB's) results, which they told me are incomplete.

    So far they have found 44 wins for Budge, as you show above. I've been documenting this tour for a couple of years, a little bit at a time; I now have 50 of Budge's wins documented. TB has 23 wins for Kovacs; I've found 24 thus far. TB has 19 wins for Perry, I have 22 thus far. Etc.

    So I guess my results are a little more complete than TB's, but not yet complete.

    But there truly is no reason to doubt the information in the article. It was published by American Lawn Tennis, and the information in the article was given to them directly by the tour director, with an incredible amount of detail (I'm referring to the calculations of games won). Unfortunately a full list of match results was not provided -- but there's no reason to doubt the numbers. I mean, of course, the numbers may contain some mistakes, as is true for any source; but they are certainly to be preferred over TB's incomplete numbers (and over my currently incomplete numbers).

    Ray Bowers researched this tour in detail years ago -- checking newspaper reports of the time period -- and he found nothing wrong with the numbers in the article: http://www.tennisserver.com/lines/lines_07_03_19.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    #56
  7. Ivan69

    Ivan69 Professional

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    Thanks! It's helpful. I am hugely interested in the pre-war and the post-war statistics. I would be very grateful if you provide me with an info about other tournaments and tours, which you have already found it is missing or incomplete in TB. Thanks again!
     
    #57

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