But, but I thought 04-07 was the weak era??

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic's has won too many Grand Slams in one location, his resume is unbalanced. He needs more Big Two titles (Wimbledon, U.S.).
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Adding to what you said , when Novak beats in-form players thiem at AO 2020 and Medvedev 2021 and Nadal 2019 who were no 3,3,2 in world and in-form players , they claim its weak era while they give so much credit to 2017 Fed AO win vs Nadal who actually reached first semi final in 3 yrs and played 5 hour semi marathon ... It's not like 2017 AO Nadal was any world-beater himself ..
As you said , Objectivity is missing in most posters .
Fed was coming off a 6 month break, hadn't won a slam for 4.5 years and had to beat 4 top 10 players to win.

Comparing that to AO 2019 and AO 2021 for Novak is ridiculous.

If novak actually had all those circumstances, you'd be singing his praises.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
It was, that’s why it’s known as the vacuum era.

Credit to Fed for taking advantage of bums and clowns to pad his resume before the big 2 fully matured :whistle:
 

jltman

New User
Hope > expectation here I think. Also, his semifinal performance was far above his finals performance, in which he laid one of the fattest eggs he could muster. Hindsight wins this one, I'm afraid.
Anyone who actually watched the semifinal would realize that the beatdown had more to do with Tsitsipas than Medvedev.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Fed was coming off a 6 month break, hadn't won a slam for 4.5 years and had to beat 4 top 10 players to win.

Comparing that to AO 2019 and AO 2021 for Novak is ridiculous.

If novak actually had all those circumstances, you'd be singing his praises.
What circumstances ?? One among them was Nishikori whom Fedfans call "mug" , and other was Stan who had physical issues in match, along with fed and both took multiple MTO isn't it .

When Novak beats fed at Wimbledons ,the wins doesn't count as grass GOAT fed is 30+ .

When 30+ AO GOAT Novak beats world number 2 Nadal at 2019 F who didn't drop any sets , thats worthless somehow .
But when the same Nadal who reached finals for the first time in 3 years + played five hours marathon in semis is somehow a great player to be beaten in finals because the winner is Fed .
This can't work both ways , If they can't give respect to Novak .

Also , whats wrong with 2019 and 2021 . he goated in 2016 too before he lost form in 2017 .
He just continued that in 2019 n 2021 .

If Djoker wins another Wimbledon then , Djoker at Wimbledon = fed at AO .
But Novak's wins at Wimby are overrated but fed's wins at AO was historic and epic ..
This is getting too predictable now .

And about praising Fed ? I have praised fed for winning 2017 Final many times . Praised back then too .
But sadly Novak doesn't get the praise that he deserve .
Nadal wins FO final ,he is FO goat and Novak wins AO finals that's because opponent is a mug .
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
What circumstances ?? One among them was Nishikori whom Fedfans call "mug" , and other was Stan who had physical issues in match, along with fed and both took multiple MTO isn't it .

When Novak beats fed at Wimbledons ,the wins doesn't count as grass GOAT fed is 30+ .

When 30+ AO GOAT Novak beats world number 2 Nadal at 2019 F who didn't drop any sets , thats worthless somehow .
But when the same Nadal who reached finals for the first time in 3 years + played five hours marathon in semis is somehow a great player to be beaten in finals because the winner is Fed .
This can't work both ways , If they can't give respect to Novak .

Also , whats wrong with 2019 and 2021 . he goated in 2016 too before he lost form in 2017 .
He just continued that in 2019 n 2021 .

If Djoker wins another Wimbledon then , Djoker at Wimbledon = fed at AO .
But Novak's wins at Wimby are overrated but fed's wins at AO was historic and epic ..
This is getting too predictable now .
Like I said, Fed was coming off a 6 month break, was 35.5 and had a tough draw ahead of him. Not anywhere near the same situation as much as you're trying to make it seem like one.

How is Djoker in his prime beating older Fed remotely similar?

How is Djoker winning AO 2019 while playing great tennis against his equal age peer even remotely similar?

Fed at 35.5 pulled off a miracle win against an ATG 5 years younger than him + 3 other top 10 players after no competitive tennis for 6 months. Nice try invalidating this win and making it look similar to all the others. It's not working.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Like I said, Fed was coming off a 6 month break, was 35.5 and had a tough draw ahead of him. Not anywhere near the same situation as much as you're trying to make it seem like one.

How is Djoker in his prime beating older Fed remotely similar?

How is Djoker winning AO 2019 while playing great tennis against his equal age peer even remotely similar?

Fed at 35.5 pulled off a miracle win against an ATG 5 years younger than him + 3 other top 10 players after no competitive tennis for 6 months. Nice try invalidating this win and making it look similar to all the others. It's not working.
I don't think there is some tennis rule that only Novak's wins should be invalidated .

When you say Fed came back after 6 months break ,isn't it a fact that Nadal also came back after a break of 6 months in the same tournament ??
Infact Fed was in better form when he took break from tennis and reached multiple finals in 2015-16 but Nadal had his weakest period in 15-16 and never reached semifinals .

Somehow , Nadal world number 2 defending champion of two slams ( US open and RG ) is a mug in 2019F but Nadal is ATG in 2017 F . I get it ...

And about Fed's age , well he capable of beating Nadal at non clay surfaces as he again shown in 2019 Wimbledon semifinals .
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I don't think there is some tennis rule that only Novak's wins should be invalidated .

When you say Fed came back after 6 months break ,isn't it a fact that Nadal also came back after a break of 6 months in the same tournament ??
Infact Fed was in better form when he took break from tennis and reached multiple finals in 2015-16 but Nadal had his weakest period in 15-16 and never reached semifinals .

Somehow , Nadal world number 2 defending champion of two slams ( US open and RG ) is a mug in 2019F but Nadal is ATG in 2017 F . I get it ...
No, Nadal wasn't coming back after 6 months of no competitive tennis. He shut down his 2016 season after Shanghai.

The form Fed was in before the break is irrelevant, given that at that time 2015 was a long time ago and no guarantee Fed at that advanced age would play this well.

I'm not saying 2017 Nadal was great competition, but he did beat better players throughout his run than in 2019. His 2019 opponents were trash and made him look better than he was. 2017 Nadal easily trashes them too. Meanwhile, 2019 would be troubled by Zverev and Dimitrov.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
No, Nadal wasn't coming back after 6 months of no competitive tennis. He shut down his 2016 season after Shanghai.

The form Fed was in before the break is irrelevant, given that at that time 2015 was a long time ago and no guarantee Fed at that advanced age would play this well.

I'm not saying 2017 Nadal was great competition, but he did beat better players throughout his run than in 2019. His 2019 opponents were trash and made him look better than he was. 2017 Nadal easily trashes them too. Meanwhile, 2019 would be troubled by Zverev and Dimitrov.
I agree that nadal's run in 2017 had better opponents .

But Novak's wins shouldn't be invalidated for Rafa's run had weak opponents simply because it doesn't matter in case of Novak . He is too good at AO..

Also , Rafa would have fought better versus any another player in 19 F. Novak broke his confidence in that match the same way Rafa did in 2020 RG..
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I agree that nadal's run in 2017 had better opponents .

But Novak's wins shouldn't be invalidated for Rafa's run had weak opponents simply because it doesn't matter in case of Novak . He is too good at AO..

Also , Rafa would have fought better versus any another player in 19 F. Novak broke his confidence in that match the same way Rafa did in 2020 RG..
Perhaps, but I still think a good version of Fed straight sets him too, even if not as drastically as Novak.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Perhaps, but I still think a good version of Fed straight sets him too, even if not as drastically as Novak.
But Nadal fans will throw H2H thing at you and that 3-1 versus Fed at AO and 2-1 vs nole at USO .

They say - Fed and nole won their RGs because they avoided Rafa and he is too good on clay courts .
Fedovic beat Rafa 20 times in a row on hardcourts since 2013 . So Rafa won 17 & 19 USO because he avoided Fedovic ? Noone asks this question .
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
But Nadal fans will throw H2H thing at you and that 3-1 versus Fed at AO and 2-1 vs nole at USO .

They say - Fed and nole won their RGs because they avoided Rafa and he is too good on clay courts .
Fedovic beat Rafa 20 times in a row on hardcourts since 2013 . So Rafa won 17 & 19 USO because he avoided Fedovic ? Noone asks this question .
3-1 at the AO is irrelevant when the AO surface changed after 2016 and the Fedal match-up also changed after 2012. (Don't consider 2013-early 2014 relevant as Fed sucked).

It wouldn't be 3-1 at the AO for Nadal if the surface was always as fast as 2017 or 2021.

Yeah, Rafa did have lots of fortune to win those last 2 USO titles than he's won. But it's not comparable to RG, as Rafa at least beat Djokovic to win 2 USO's and Fed to win 1 AO. They have never beaten Nadal to win a RG title.
 

CYGS

Legend
My fault, I should have put

3) something completely nonsensical that proves the point went straight over your head.
Apologies accepted. Now try talking to yourself using the exact same words. No posting necessary, a mirror recommended.
 
Djokovic's has won too many Grand Slams in one location, his resume is unbalanced. He needs more Big Two titles (Wimbledon, U.S.).
That doesn’t matter a slam win is a slam win. I can see Federer fans trying to use this to justify why fed should be still seen as best. As they worried both nadal and Djokovic are passing his slam record.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
What makes them mugs? The fact that they can't beat 3 legends in slams? Those are some lofty expectations.
For starters they should be able to string three successive FHs without dumping them into the net, or stop DFting like crazy. How about having an in percentage higher than 65, if they are 6 foot 3"?

Mental midgetry is not something a true tennis fan should be trying to just sweep under the carpet.

:cool:
 

Tony48

Legend
For starters they should be able to string three successive FHs without dumping them into the net, or stop DFting like crazy. How about having an in percentage higher than 65, if they are 6 foot 3"?

Mental midgetry is not something a true tennis fan should be trying to just sweep under the carpet.

:cool:
In other words: beat Djokovic in a slam final and stop him from breaking the slam record

Medvedev was on a 20-match win streak. Not many mental midgets do that. He just didn't win the match certain fans wanted him to win.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
In other words: beat Djokovic in a slam final and stop him from breaking the slam record

Medvedev was on a 20-match win streak. Not many mental midgets do that. He just didn't win the match certain fans wanted him to win.
Match streaks do not guarantee form, as we saw, and Djokovic was not the reason for the failed serving or mistakes in neutral rallies. Maybe you didn't see the match or maybe you are just trolling. In any event, that is not how quality tennis looks like.

:cool:
 

Tony48

Legend
Match streaks do not guarantee form, as we saw, and Djokovic was not the reason for the failed serving or mistakes in neutral rallies. Maybe you didn't see the match or maybe you are just trolling. In any event, that is not how quality tennis looks like.

:cool:
My point is that a mental midget does not win 20 straight matches. Sorry, but you're going to have to pick a new way to be salty about the final.
 

canta_Brian

Semi-Pro
My point is that a mental midget does not win 20 straight matches. Sorry, but you're going to have to pick a new way to be salty about the final.
If I was coaching a player who, on the back of a 20 match winning streak, folded quite like that I would be a little worried about their self-efficacy when under pressure.
 

Tony48

Legend
If I was coaching a player who, on the back of a 20 match winning streak, folded quite like that I would be a little worried about their self-efficacy when under pressure.
Nadal similarly folded in 2019 after getting to the final without losing a single set. The finals have mostly been played on Djokovic's terms. He's undefeated in the SFs and on for a reason.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
My point is that a mental midget does not win 20 straight matches. Sorry, but you're going to have to pick a new way to be salty about the final.
I thought that Majors finals are considered the pinnacle of mental fortitude, or maybe you changed your tune just for that one occasion. I see that you are not even touching the actual quality of the tennis Medvedev played, so that tells me everything I need to know.

:cool:
 

canta_Brian

Semi-Pro
Nadal similarly folded in 2019 after getting to the final without losing a single set. The finals have mostly been played on Djokovic's terms. He's undefeated in the SFs and on for a reason.
In isolation that’s probably fair enough. When combined with last year’s French it looks more like a surface match up issue. And that works both ways obviously.
 

Tony48

Legend
I thought that Majors finals are considered the pinnacle of mental fortitude, or maybe you changed your tune just for that one occasion. I see that you are not even touching the actual quality of the tennis Medvedev played, so that tells me everything I need to know.

:cool:
The two things aren't mutually exclusive. And Medvedev isn't some sort of slam final mainstay where is entire career is based off of his slam performance. Maybe if you watch tennis for one month out of the entire year, you'll think he's a mental midget.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
The two things aren't mutually exclusive. And Medvedev isn't some sort of slam final mainstay where is entire career is based off of his slam performance. Maybe if you watch tennis for one month out of the entire year, you'll think he's a mental midget.
Yes, having a streak and failing miserably in the most important moment are not mutually exclusive, but somehow you don't get that, as indicated by your current posts trying to ignore his performance in the final by replacing it with his "streaks".

Medvedev is number 4 in the world, he is expected to post good results and not fold like a cheap tent. What is more, he is expected to put up a steady performance when it matters. The opinion that he severely underperformed in the final is pretty much unanimous from everyone who actually understands tennis.

:cool:
 

Crazy Finn

Professional
Ivanisevic was a wildcard ranked below top 100 at 2001 Wimbledon. Weakest title ever?
No. The field was reasonably deep at Wimbledon then.
Wrong. They are strong, powerful, athletic and evolved. Tsitsipas, Medvedev and Zverev combine a great height/powerful serve with excellent mobility. Tsitsipas almost defeated Djokovic at RG 2020 and did defeat Nadal at the AO 2021. Zverev with his powerful serve made Djokovic suffer a lot in the AO 2021 QF and Medvedev also made Nadal suffer in the USO 2019 final.

The Next Gen is strong, Nadal and Djokovic (Nadovic) are too good. The ability to stop the Next Gen is crucial in a GOAT resume. Nadal defeated Medvedev who happens to be 9 years younger than him in the USO 2019 final and Djokovic destroyed that same opponent in the AO 2021 final. Impressive. On the other hand, as far as I'm concerned, Federer has never defeated any opponent 8-9 years younger than him in a Slam final. His inability to stop the Next Gen will likely cost him the GOAT title in the long run.
The youngsters have the theoretical tools to win, but have yet to show us that they can beat a Big 3 at a slam, particularly in a final. I’m not convinced that Theim (debatable if he qualifies as young) is working his way toward beating Rafa at FO. Medvedev put up a good fight in USO 2019, less so here. These guys are entering the age when the shoukd have won something, or at least start, generally, and haven’t, yet.

The Big 3 put them under pressure with smart, generally consistent play at a reasonably high level and that is generally enough to win. Or, if the Big 3 stumble a bit, they usually seem to get nervous and stumble themselves (Zverev, for example, but he’s hardly the only one) instead of taking advantage and getting ahead or even or putting the dagger in.

Except for Rafa and Tsitsipas, which was unexpected and continues to puzzle me, a bit. Although, this is Rafa at AO, these things seem to happen here, for him. He’s fairly mortal in Melbourne. Djokovic, is slightly vulnerable at the FO.

Anyway, more predictable rinse and repeat at AO. Hope spring eternal, but it was a little wishful in hindsight.
 

Tony48

Legend
Yes, having a streak and failing miserably in the most important moment are not mutually exclusive, but somehow you don't get that, as indicated by your current posts trying to ignore his performance in the final by replacing it with his "streaks".

Medvedev is number 4 in the world, he is expected to post good results and not fold like a cheap tent. What is more, he is expected to put up a steady performance when it matters. The opinion that he severely underperformed in the final is pretty much unanimous from everyone who actually understands tennis.

:cool:
You speak of this slam final as if he wasn’t a playing person who has never lost from the SFs and on at the AO. Yeah, Medvedev is world No. 4...and what is a Djokovic? World No. 1, defending champion and a legend of the game. The fact that you keep making this about Medvedev says a lot.

If you haven’t realized that Djokovic doesn’t allow you to play “your game” in the final, then you will continue to be disappointed.
 

canta_Brian

Semi-Pro
You speak of this slam final as if he wasn’t a playing person who has never lost from the SFs and on at the AO. Yeah, Medvedev is world No. 4...and what is a Djokovic? World No. 1, defending champion and a legend of the game. The fact that you keep making this about Medvedev says a lot.

If you haven’t realized that Djokovic doesn’t allow you to play “your game” in the final, then you will continue to be disappointed.
I think it’s you making this about Medvedev. I think you really want him to have been a bigger challenge than he was today.

Djokovic played well, but barring 4 games or so in the first set his opponent might as well have stayed in the changing shed.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
You speak of this slam final as if he wasn’t a playing person who has never lost from the SFs and on at the AO. Yeah, Medvedev is world No. 4...and what is a Djokovic? World No. 1, defending champion and a legend of the game. The fact that you keep making this about Medvedev says a lot.

If you haven’t realized that Djokovic doesn’t allow you to play “your game” in the final, then you will continue to be disappointed.
I pointed at several things that are not depended on Djokovic, so you don't understand what is written. Of course that I will talk about Medvedev, when Medvedev is the one who underperformed, sorry if that is "inconvenient" to you. I just learned from a Djoke fan, that discussing such things right after the final is extremely inconvenient. They don't want to hear about that. Oh, noez!

:cool:
 

Tony48

Legend
I pointed at several things that are not depended on Djokovic, so you don't understand what is written. Of course that I will talk about Medvedev, when Medvedev is the one who underperformed, sorry if that is "inconvenient" to you. I just learned from a Djoke fan, that discussing such things right after the final is extremely inconvenient. They don't want to hear about that. Oh, noez!

:cool:
Djokovic is an AO legend and the return of serve GOAT, causing typically great servers to double fault more and lose their serve due to Djokovic’s neutralizing power. Was this your first Djokovic match? Sound like it.

So much for your argument for things not dependent on Djokovic.
 

canta_Brian

Semi-Pro
I think most people on the forum have acknowledged that Djok played well. Especially for someone only just recovering from a life threatening injury.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Djokovic is an AO legend and the return of serve GOAT, causing typically great servers to double fault more and lose their serve due to Djokovic’s neutralizing power. Was this your first Djokovic match? Sound like it.

So much for your argument for things not dependent on Djokovic.
Strange that Medvedev played much closer Djokovic at the same venue two years ago, with better game and stats. I remember that he actually put up a fight then. Oh, I forgot that that was the first time I was watching them.

Try again.

:cool:
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
Huge Djokovic fan here and no, I don't believe 04-07 was a weak era. Likewise, I hope you folks have the common sense to not belittle the current era but celebrate the greatness of 3 players who have given us more thrilling moments than we could have imagined some years ago.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Strange that Medvedev played much closer Djokovic at the same venue two years ago, with better game and stats. I remember that he actually put up a fight then. Oh, I forgot that that was the first time I was watching them.

Try again.

:cool:
How well his opponent’s play depends on his own level. If Djokovic plays well, he unbeatable on HC or slow grass.
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
How well his opponent’s play depends on his own level. If Djokovic plays well, he unbeatable on HC or slow grass.
Boat! I know you repeatedly said Djokovic in 3 straightforward sets and sorry I didn't believe it but great prediction! (y) :)
 

Tony48

Legend
Strange that Medvedev played much closer Djokovic at the same venue two years ago, with better game and stats. I remember that he actually put up a fight then. Oh, I forgot that that was the first time I was watching them.

Try again.

:cool:
That was a 4th round match. This was a final. Novak raises his level dramatically from the semis onward, or else you could draw the same conclusions about the “fight” from Tiafoe, Fritz, and Zverev. But if you watched more Djokovic matches you’d already know these things.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic wins the tournament, semi fit for half the tourney, until the quarters where ‘Next gen’ Zverev mentally folds, semi final, the mighty Aslan Karatsev didn’t stand a chance, and Medvedev, well, I like you, but that was one of the most underwhelming final performances of all time. 33 going on 34 djokovic is levels about anyone, Nadal is dominating clay 15 years later and Federer will still be the best contender on grass upon his return. I fear the generation of Zverev, Medvedev and co are turning into raonic, dimitrov and nishikori!
Yup, this era is fairly weak, so imagine how much weaker 04-07 really was. Inconceivable!!
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
Tennis is so bad after 2015. I don't even watch matches anymore.

This entire AO, I have watched just a couple of sets of Nadal vs Fognini.
Same for last 3 slams. There is literally no fun anymore. Since AO2020.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
Djokovic's has won too many Grand Slams in one location, his resume is unbalanced. He needs more Big Two titles (Wimbledon, U.S.).
He has 5 Wimbledons playing Nadal, Federer, Federer, and Federer in the finals, gimme me a break. He had just the one cakewalk final against Anderson, but given the quality of his other opponents, it was about time he had a gimme.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
I learned never to doubt Djokovic in Australia. He is 100% in SF/F for a reason :whistle: :love:
The guy is literally like a wall: the harder you hit the ball, the harder and deeper and faster it comes back at you. Insane.
 
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