Buying a machine (Ireland)

[irish-phil]

Hi everyone,

Have been reading lots of threads here and everyone seems to be pretty expert in the area of stringing machines. Really want to get my own machine. Enthusiasm waning as I'm getting lost among the electronic, dropweight, sliding and fixed clampsedness of it all! Would really appreciate some sound advice regrds buying (new or secondhand) a cheap machine to string reasonably low volumes of rackets (with a view) to stringing for a few people.

Many thanks in advance,

Phil.

 

[sstchur]

Hi everyone,

Have been reading lots of threads here and everyone seems to be pretty expert in the area of stringing machines. Really want to get my own machine. Enthusiasm waning as I'm getting lost among the electronic, dropweight, sliding and fixed clampsedness of it all! Would really appreciate some sound advice regrds buying (new or secondhand) a cheap machine to string reasonably low volumes of rackets (with a view) to stringing for a few people.

Many thanks in advance,

Phil.

Well, I've gone through my own saga of trying to decide what to buy and buying and then not being happy and on and on and on, so maybe I'm not the best to give advice

However, you can learn from my mistakes.

You used the terms "cheap" and "reasonably low volumes."

Those are open to interpretation, but here's my take:

Don't bother with electronic. None will be "cheap," and those that may be probably won't be constant pull, in which case, why not just go with a crank -- less to go wrong, IMO.

That leaves you with drop weight and crank.

However, one thing I learned is that something that was REALLY important to me was to have an upright machine and not a table top -- not even a table top on a stand. I wanted an upright without a bulky cart or stand to get in the way. I wanted something that was secure on its stand.

If you're like me, that will rule out most drop weights right off that bat. However, depending on your price range, it may not be possible for you.

What is your budget? Something a bit more specific than "cheap" might give us a better idea to help offer suggestions.

 

[irish-phil]

Well, I've gone through my own saga of trying to decide what to buy and buying and then not being happy and on and on and on, so maybe I'm not the best to give advice

However, you can learn from my mistakes.

You used the terms "cheap" and "reasonably low volumes."

Those are open to interpretation, but here's my take:

Don't bother with electronic. None will be "cheap," and those that may be probably won't be constant pull, in which case, why not just go with a crank -- less to go wrong, IMO.

That leaves you with drop weight and crank.

However, one thing I learned is that something that was REALLY important to me was to have an upright machine and not a table top -- not even a table top on a stand. I wanted an upright without a bulky cart or stand to get in the way. I wanted something that was secure on its stand.

If you're like me, that will rule out most drop weights right off that bat. However, depending on your price range, it may not be possible for you.

What is your budget? Something a bit more specific than "cheap" might give us a better idea to help offer suggestions.

First thanks for your reply!! Yes it is a frustrating decision but quite exciting too! I suppose I'm taliking around 450 dollars. Regarding electronic machines the pro's pro tx500n or tx600a can be got for around this price (any experience of these?) I am also considering second hand machines (possibly pneumatic, eg Prince). Now I have confused myself terribly However it seems to me that almost all machines of any price have pros and cons. Just a question of getting a machine where the cons are more annoying as opposed to affecting functionality!

 

[sstchur]

First thanks for your reply!! Yes it is a frustrating decision but quite exciting too! I suppose I'm taliking around 450 dollars. Regarding electronic machines the pro's pro tx500n or tx600a can be got for around this price (any experience of these?) I am also considering second hand machines (possibly pneumatic, eg Prince). Now I have confused myself terribly However it seems to me that almost all machines of any price have pros and cons. Just a question of getting a machine where the cons are more annoying as opposed to affecting functionality!

Endless arguments will ensue no doubt.

I don't have any experiencing researching, buying, or using electronic, so I'll leave that to those who DO have knowledge.

In the $450 price range, you have some options. However, you did indicate Ireland, and I only have knowledge of what is sold in the US, so there may be options I'm unaware of and those I am aware of may not be relevant to you.

If you did decide to go with something not electronic, I would recommend crank. This is based on having used both drop weight and crank.

Drop-weights are fine. Very accurate, very reliable. But generally slower and more tedious than a crank. Most (but probably not all) would agree with that.

The Revo is probably going to come up as a good ~$450 option. I haven't heard a single negative thing about it, but I can't vouch for it. Haven't used it myself. I can say that Alpha is known for legendary customer service, and I have experienced that first hand. They are good and friendly and very accommodating. But you'll have to decide how important that is to you.

Did you think you had a preference between electronic, crank or drop weight? Or are you not sure at this point?

 

[irish-phil]

Endless arguments will ensue no doubt.

I don't have any experiencing researching, buying, or using electronic, so I'll leave that to those who DO have knowledge.

In the $450 price range, you have some options. However, you did indicate Ireland, and I only have knowledge of what is sold in the US, so there may be options I'm unaware of and those I am aware of may not be relevant to you.

If you did decide to go with something not electronic, I would recommend crank. This is based on having used both drop weight and crank.

Drop-weights are fine. Very accurate, very reliable. But generally slower and more tedious than a crank. Most (but probably not all) would agree with that.

The Revo is probably going to come up as a good ~$450 option. I haven't heard a single negative thing about it, but I can't vouch for it. Haven't used it myself. I can say that Alpha is known for legendary customer service, and I have experienced that first hand. They are good and friendly and very accommodating. But you'll have to decide how important that is to you.

Did you think you had a preference between electronic, crank or drop weight? Or are you not sure at this point?

Thought I had a preference for electronic due to a (probably misguided assumption) that newer is better! I understand electronic, and drop weight (more or less) but crank? How does this work?

 

[sstchur]

Thought I had a preference for electronic due to a (probably misguided assumption) that newer is better! I understand electronic, and drop weight (more or less) but crank? How does this work?

This is from Mansewerz's Guide to Stringing Machines (it's worth reading):

"Cranks-Cranks, aka Lockout machines, are a tensioning mechanism that uses a pre-loaded spring to determine when proper tension is reached. There is a crank, that has a built in brake/locking mechanism. The stringer turns the crank until the tension is reached, then the brake is engaged and no longer allows the stringer to turn the crank, and then that string being tensioned is clamped off. The stringer then disengages the brake and tensions the next string.

The mechanism is known as a "lockout" mechanism, which is why cranks are also known as "lockout" machines. Cranks are typically the fastest tensioner, but require more physical work than electronics or automatic dropweights. Note: When I say faster, I mean that they are able to tension strings more quickly. You should not turn the crank at full speed to quickly tension the string. A slow, consistent speed gives the most accurate results."

People will argue all day long about Constant Pull, which is what (most) electronic and all drop-weight machines are vs Lock out.

Supporters of CP will say it's a more "true" or more "accurate" tension. I've come to the conclusion that neither is better. They're just different.

Many many stringers will tell you that what it's all about is consistent technique. In other words, regardless of machine, if you have the same racuet, same strings, same tension, etc... then the results should be the same every time.

A Fischer Pro One 98 strung with Forten Sweet Synthetic Gut 16 at 60lbs on a Mutual Power Titan 7700 (crank) machine should have the same resulting string bed every time you do it.

And while that same setup may have a slightly different string bed if you used an electronic or a drop-weight, the more important point is that if you use the same machine-type each time you string, you results should be consistent.

This is possible with crank, it's possible with electronic, and it's possible with drop weight.

But again, there will be no end to the debate.... because that would make life boring!

 

[irish-phil]

This is from Mansewerz's Guide to Stringing Machines (it's worth reading):

"Cranks-Cranks, aka Lockout machines, are a tensioning mechanism that uses a pre-loaded spring to determine when proper tension is reached. There is a crank, that has a built in brake/locking mechanism. The stringer turns the crank until the tension is reached, then the brake is engaged and no longer allows the stringer to turn the crank, and then that string being tensioned is clamped off. The stringer then disengages the brake and tensions the next string.

The mechanism is known as a "lockout" mechanism, which is why cranks are also known as "lockout" machines. Cranks are typically the fastest tensioner, but require more physical work than electronics or automatic dropweights. Note: When I say faster, I mean that they are able to tension strings more quickly. You should not turn the crank at full speed to quickly tension the string. A slow, consistent speed gives the most accurate results."

People will argue all day long about Constant Pull, which is what (most) electronic and all drop-weight machines are vs Lock out.

Supporters of CP will say it's a more "true" or more "accurate" tension. I've come to the conclusion that neither is better. They're just different.

Many many stringers will tell you that what it's all about is consistent technique. In other words, regardless of machine, if you have the same racuet, same strings, same tension, etc... then the results should be the same every time.

A Fischer Pro One 98 strung with Forten Sweet Synthetic Gut 16 at 60lbs on a Mutual Power Titan 7700 (crank) machine should have the same resulting string bed every time you do it.

And while that same setup may have a slightly different string bed if you used an electronic or a drop-weight, the more important point is that if you use the same machine-type each time you string, you results should be consistent.

This is possible with crank, it's possible with electronic, and it's possible with drop weight.

But again, there will be no end to the debate.... because that would make life boring!

Thanks for pointing out that guide to me! Ok I have some thinking today.

At http://www.alphatennis.com/Machines.htm Revo 4000 is listed at 649dollars :shock:

 

[sstchur]

Thanks for pointing out that guide to me! Ok I have some thinking today.

At http://www.alphatennis.com/Machines.htm Revo 4000 is listed at 649dollars :shock:

Oh... could be. For some reason I thought it was ~$450. I guess I was remembering wrong (it was just off the top of my head). Sorry 'bout that.

 

[irish-phil]

Oh... could be. For some reason I thought it was ~$450. I guess I was remembering wrong (it was just off the top of my head). Sorry 'bout that.

No problem. I'm in two minds now whether I should hold off and spend more having saved up or is a good quality second hand machine the way to go.

 

[sstchur]

No problem. I'm in two minds now whether I should hold off and spend more having saved up or is a good quality second hand machine the way to go.

Nothing wrong with a second hand machine at all if it's in good condition!

My first was used (a drop weight). I had no problems and it was a great starter machine for me.

If you have a used one locally that looks good, no reason not to consider it.

 

[maa2003]

you can contact this vendor :

 

[irish-phil]

you can contact this vendor :

Thank you.

Do you have experience with this vendor/these machines?

 

[maa2003]

Thank you.

Do you have experience with this vendor/these machines?

I bought my Wise2086 from Watdon earlier last year

 

[Ash_Smith]

Phil

W&D are pretty good but the cheaper machines they sell are Pro's Pro which may be fine for the volume you'll be stringing but I know plenty of people with stories of clamps slipping, support arms bending and racquets not being supported properly.

In your budget have a look at the FST Club 650 from www.fst.co.uk, i've used one of these an it's well worth the extra cash over the pro's pro or similar.

Either that or contact Liam Nolan at the UKRSA as he has a couple of Ektelon Neos for sale (tell him Ash sent you!!!).

 

[irish-phil]

Phil

W&D are pretty good but the cheaper machines they sell are Pro's Pro which may be fine for the volume you'll be stringing but I know plenty of people with stories of clamps slipping, support arms bending and racquets not being supported properly.

In your budget have a look at the FST Club 650 from www.fst.co.uk, i've used one of these an it's well worth the extra cash over the pro's pro or similar.

Either that or contact Liam Nolan at the UKRSA as he has a couple of Ektelon Neos for sale (tell him Ash sent you!!!).

Thanks for that,

Is Liam on the boards here or how can I contact him?

 

[David123]

I think he's pretty active on GSS

 

[Dags]

Thanks for that,

Is Liam on the boards here or how can I contact him?

http://www.ukrsa.com/

 

[irish-phil]

http://www.ukrsa.com/

Lovely thanks.

I'm starting to lean towards a stringway machine now. Very happy with communication so far and excellent for answering questions!

 

[Ash_Smith]

Phil

Fred is a pretty good guy to deal with (assuming you're dealing with Fred Timmer?) and the stringway is an excellent machine, I tried one of the early edition ones when tennis tech were the uk distributor and it took no time at all to get to grips with. You'll do fine if you buy one of those i'm sure. I think apollo have a used (or maybe ex demo) electronic stringway machine which you may want to look at (although this might stretch the budget a liitle!!!)

Happy hunting!

 

[irish-phil]

Phil

Fred is a pretty good guy to deal with (assuming you're dealing with Fred Timmer?) and the stringway is an excellent machine, I tried one of the early edition ones when tennis tech were the uk distributor and it took no time at all to get to grips with. You'll do fine if you buy one of those i'm sure. I think apollo have a used (or maybe ex demo) electronic stringway machine which you may want to look at (although this might stretch the budget a liitle!!!)

Happy hunting!

Ok thanks for the info,

Ya Fred Timmer, very helpful guy.

Is that apollo leisure? They dont seem to have any second hand machines advertised on their site? Thinking of the MS200 at the moment!

 

[Ash_Smith]

^^^ No they don't advertise them but i'm sure when I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago (I was trying to find a used Star 4) they said they had a stringway that they had purchased with a view to stocking and then changed their minds so were looking to clear it from the stockroom. could be worth a call as you might get a better price.

ash

 

[irish-phil]

^^^ No they don't advertise them but i'm sure when I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago (I was trying to find a used Star 4) they said they had a stringway that they had purchased with a view to stocking and then changed their minds so were looking to clear it from the stockroom. could be worth a call as you might get a better price.

ash

Thanks Ash.
Regarding a comparison of say the Stringway MS200 and the electronic Stringways is the electronic much ahead and in terms of what?

Why is it that electronics are considered better for large volumes when I believe that the MS200 is so quick (probably due to foot pedal!)

 

[Ash_Smith]

I believe the clamp options and table are the same on the electronic as the MS200 - i think the one apollo have is the EM 450-N with the T98 clamps. Both machines are said to be constant pull but the electric has a stringbed tension calculator built in to help you set the tension to keep the required stringbed stiffness for any given racquet. I can't remember exactly what price they were asking for though, in the end I bought a Tyger Ultra 800 (which is a silent partner opus) instead.

happy hunting

ash

 

[irish-phil]

I believe the clamp options and table are the same on the electronic as the MS200 - i think the one apollo have is the EM 450-N with the T98 clamps. Both machines are said to be constant pull but the electric has a stringbed tension calculator built in to help you set the tension to keep the required stringbed stiffness for any given racquet. I can't remember exactly what price they were asking for though, in the end I bought a Tyger Ultra 800 (which is a silent partner opus) instead.

happy hunting

ash

Ash I'm also struggling to see the difference between the EM450-N and EM450-L?
I've looked into a huge amount of machines and Stringway is the one for me. Now just have to decide on a model and start saving money :-?

 

[irish-phil]

^^^ No they don't advertise them but i'm sure when I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago (I was trying to find a used Star 4) they said they had a stringway that they had purchased with a view to stocking and then changed their minds so were looking to clear it from the stockroom. could be worth a call as you might get a better price.

ash

Would you mind if I dropped you an email?

 

[Ash_Smith]

^^^ no worries phil

 

[irish-phil]

^^^ no worries phil

Ok cant see contact details ion your page, mine is phillyogorman@gmail.com

 

[Ash_Smith]

^^^ have emailed you!