cakewalk draw for Muurya

D

dominikk1985

Legend
Since everyone talks about the cakewalk draws of federer and nadal I have to mention the super soft draw of Murray.

1R
Predon
2R
Bolleli
3R
Berrer
4R
Troicki/dolgo
QF
Kubot/falla/anderson/rosol

easiest way to SF ever?

Other favs also don't have the hardest draw but at least they face some hard opponents.

Nadal:
Ljub/verdasco (OK that's easy-but still harder than anyone in murrays draw)
Sod (2 time finalist)

Fed:
tippy
Tsonga/stan (ok his whipping boy)
Ferrer/monfils

Joke:
DP
Gasquet/bellucci

I think out of the 4 top players the king has the toughest draw. strange that muurya has the easiest draw even if he is the worst seeded. super easy draw for him.
 
Murray is worst according to you, but best according to me. Ya he might have bad days but everyone has.
Dont expect him to be like Nadal or Nole who come to trash their opponents each time they step in. Murray has different levels of play, he steps up or down based on the need. He makes it so easy for people to hate him if they lack knowledge of tennis. But those who know the game well know his geneus.
 
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dominikk1985 said:
Since everyone talks about the cakewalk draws of federer and nadal I have to mention the super soft draw of Murray.

1R
Predon
2R
Bolleli
3R
Berrer
4R
Troicki/dolgo
QF
Kubot/falla/anderson/rosol

easiest way to SF ever?

Other favs also don't have the hardest draw but at least they face some hard opponents.

Nadal:
Ljub/verdasco (OK that's easy-but still harder than anyone in murrays draw)
Sod (2 time finalist)

Fed:
tippy
Tsonga/stan (ok his whipping boy)
Ferrer/monfils

Joke:
DP
Gasquet/bellucci

I think out of the 4 top players the king has the toughest draw. strange that muurya has the easiest draw even if he is the worst seeded. super easy draw for him.
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It's even worse - there are only 2 seeds left in Muurya's quarter and they play each other on Saturday - Muurya cannot face a seed in the QFs if he makes it that far.

Walks don't get any cakier than that.
 
Nothing beats Sampras' run to the Wimbledon final in 2000 - Vanek, Kucera, Gimelstob, Bjorkman, Gambill, Voltchkov.

Murray's draw is excellent, he better make a good use of it cause it might not happen again.
 
Dolgo might be a problem.Took a set off Andy at the AO! :razz:

In any case,you can only play against the opponents you're given. I'm sure Roland Garros didn't go out of their way to give Murray an easy draw.He's nothing to them!
 
tennis_pro said:
Nothing beats Sampras' run to the Wimbledon final in 2000 - Vanek, Kucera, Gimelstob, Bjorkman, Gambill, Voltchkov.

Murray's draw is excellent, he better make a good use of it cause it might not happen again.
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Kucera had beaten Sampras in a slam before, at the 1998 Australian Open when Sampras was the defending champion.
 
Mustard said:
Kucera had beaten Sampras in a slam before, at the 1998 Australian Open when Sampras was the defending champion.
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On paper. Kucera had huge health issues after 1999. It's comparable to beating Davydenko in a Slam nowadays, looks big but even a qualifier could do it today.
 
Nothing is easy. You still have to beat the players in front of you. Murray deserves to be in the semi final (at the very least).
 
Other top seeds losing early doesn't make the draw a cakewalk. So Murray doesn't have to face Raonic or Melzer -- he does have to face the guys who beat them. Same difference.
 
Bryan Swartz said:
Other top seeds losing early doesn't make the draw a cakewalk. So Murray doesn't have to face Raonic or Melzer -- he does have to face the guys who beat them. Same difference.
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Actually this is what proves the draw sucked, those guys are in no way contenders for quarters on a regular basis at a slam let alone a Masters. Anyone here would probably put money on either one or both of these guys not making it to their seed rd especially on clay after the cc season they both had.
 
Dolgo is the only potential tricky opponent for Murray on his path to the SF. Yes he took a set off Murray but the Scot had let his foot off the gas and gifted him a set and should have beaten Dolgo in straights. Clay will be a different match up for sure.
 
mellowyellow, the draw is not allowed to take that into consideration though. Furthermore, previous clay record is not always a great indicator(see Soderling the last two years).

A lot of seeds are gone from other parts of the draw as well, so this is hardly evidence that Murray's section was weak.
 
tennis_pro said:
Nothing beats Sampras' run to the Wimbledon final in 2000 - Vanek, Kucera, Gimelstob, Bjorkman, Gambill, Voltchkov.

Murray's draw is excellent, he better make a good use of it cause it might not happen again.
Click to expand...

Just hatorade,

shall we bring up Lubijic's run to the RG Semi in 2006 shall we?

or how about nadals run to US Open final 10(ok sorry, stick to RG)

seriously..Kucera and Bjorkman former top ten..bjorkman good on grass.
 
Bryan Swartz said:
mellowyellow, the draw is not allowed to take that into consideration though. Furthermore, previous clay record is not always a great indicator(see Soderling the last two years).

A lot of seeds are gone from other parts of the draw as well, so this is hardly evidence that Murray's section was weak.
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I understand that, just seems like of the top 4 Murray being the guy that should get the worst draws being in the last spot should have historically the worst draws, yet his draws have been historically easy many times people saying a guaranteed quarter or semi if Murray performs well. Lets face it Murray is the one player that needs the help to move along in these tourneys and somehow some way it happens.
 
mellowyellow said:
I understand that, just seems like of the top 4 Murray being the guy that should get the worst draws being in the last spot should have historically the worst draws, yet his draws have been historically easy many times people saying a guaranteed quarter or semi if Murray performs well. Lets face it Murray is the one player that needs the help to move along in these tourneys and somehow some way it happens.
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Murray is the no.4 seed at most of these tournaments so of course its a guaranteed quarter or semi if he plays well because then he will have played up to his seeding.Same with the other top seeds.You can only play against the opponents you're given.

None of the top tournaments (with the possible exception of Wimbledon) are out to make Murray's life any easier than anybody's else!
 
obsessedtennisfandisorder said:
Just hatorade,

shall we bring up Lubijic's run to the RG Semi in 2006 shall we?

or how about nadals run to US Open final 10(ok sorry, stick to RG)

seriously..Kucera and Bjorkman former top ten..bjorkman good on grass.
Click to expand...

Agreed, look at what Andre the 2 seed played. Dent who was a qualifier and retired, Martin not even a seed at this point in his career, Golmard, Prinosil wha at this point of his career a qualifier, Philippousis and had he beat him, Rafter. If anyone actually looked at the entire draw they would see it was spread out pretty evenly. Pete Had Pioline, Arthurs, Ferriera, Rusedski, Enqvist, Hewitt, Magnus Norman in his half but none of them could make it. Really if he plays any of those names save for Arthurs/Pioline in a semi no one would be saying it was "so weak".
 
Mainad said:
Murray is the no.4 seed at most of these tournaments so of course its a guaranteed quarter or semi if he plays well because then he will have played up to his seeding.Same with the other top seeds.You can only play against the opponents you're given.

None of the top tournaments (with the possible exception of Wimbledon) are out to make Murray's life any easier than anybody's else!
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I see it a little differently, Murray is the one of the entire bunch that doesn't routine most of the entire field at 1 and 2 games in a set. He is the most vulnerable on clay because of his style, and even on slow Hard. For ratings, for ticket sales, its always better to have all 4 seeds come along just in case 1 or 2 gets up ended. Have you ever looked at his career and the big exits he has made and to who? Have you ever looked at the few times he has done well? Never really put together any great streaks, he really has none, but then again you said it "you can only play against opponents you're given".
 
mellowyellow said:
I understand that, just seems like of the top 4 Murray being the guy that should get the worst draws being in the last spot should have historically the worst draws, yet his draws have been historically easy many times people saying a guaranteed quarter or semi if Murray performs well. Lets face it Murray is the one player that needs the help to move along in these tourneys and somehow some way it happens.
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This is plain wrong. There is no differentiation between 3rd and 4th seeds. It does not follow that the 4th seed should have a worse draw than the third seed.

Also, you might want to check out some of Novak's slam draws during 2009/2010. he hasn't been immune to to the odd cakewalk.
 
batz said:
This is plain wrong. There is no differentiation between 3rd and 4th seeds. It does not follow that the 4th seed should have a worse draw than the third seed.

Also, you might want to check out some of Novak's slam draws during 2009/2010. he hasn't been immune to to the odd cakewalk.
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So the reason for him never having a tougher draw? I realize there is no differentiation, but yet it seems like there is, justy not in the way it should be.
 
mellowyellow said:
So the reason for him never having a tougher draw? I realize there is no differentiation, but yet it seems like there is, justy not in the way it should be.
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I suspect that you're stretching now - in fact, unless you've got a reasonable basis for measuring the relative cakewalkiness of the top 4's draws and can demonstrate that Murray has never had a less favourable draw since he entered the top 4, then I know you're stretching.
 
mellowyellow said:
So the reason for him never having a tougher draw? I realize there is no differentiation, but yet it seems like there is, justy not in the way it should be.
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I refute it thus:

Despite being seeded ahead of Djokovic, Murray's Wimbledon 2009 is at least as hard as Djokovic's draw and possibly harder - their draws to the QFs were:

Novak

R1 Benneteau WR 81
R2 Greul WR 106
R3 Fish WR 25
R4 Sela WR 46
QF Haas WR 34

Muurya

R1 Kendrick 76
R2 Gulbis 74
R3 Troicki 31
R4 Stan W 18
QF JCF 70


Now, this is just one eg - like I said, . Novak has had plenty of cakewalks over the last few years.
 
Actually the OP said, so it is up to someone that disagrees with him/her to prove it wrong not me who agrees. Yea, stretching, exaggeration, and the fact that Murray never completes the "hard" draws he might have had. I follow tennis regularly on TV and for the most part check draws.... I fail to remember thinking Murray got screwed on a draw ever, but I could have missed one. You don't seem to be offering an example though....
 
mellowyellow said:
Actually the OP said, so it is up to someone that disagrees with him/her to prove it wrong not me who agrees. Yea, stretching, exaggeration, and the fact that Murray never completes the "hard" draws he might have had. I follow tennis regularly on TV and for the most part check draws.... I fail to remember thinking Murray got screwed on a draw ever, but I could have missed one. You don't seem to be offering an example though....
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Nope - the OP said that Murray has an easy draw at RG - and I agree with the OP 100%. It is you and you alone who is positing that Murray never has a tougher draw than his peers, so it would be up to you and you alone to provide the evidence for your hypothesis.


Define what you mean by 'screwed on a draw' and I'll have a look for you.
 
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batz said:
I refute it thus:

Despite being seeded ahead of Djokovic, Murray's Wimbledon 2009 is at least as hard as Djokovic's draw and possibly harder - their draws to the QFs were:

Novak

R1 Benneteau WR 81
R2 Greul WR 106
R3 Fish WR 25
R4 Sela WR 46
QF Haas WR 34

Muurya

R1 Kendrick 76
R2 Gulbis 74
R3 Troicki 31
R4 Stan W 18
QF JCF 70


Now, this is just one eg - like I said, . Novak has had plenty of cakewalks over the last few years.
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I would not call that tougher, maybe equal and trickier but definately not tougher. Bennetau way more accomplished than Kendrick. Fish and Haas are way more competetive on grass than any of the guys on Murray draw. Would pick Haas over all in Murrays draw, and even against Murray. In fact the average ranking for Djoko is only 5 points higher and he had a 106 2nd rd skew his average. It pales to Fed playing Lu, Kohlshreiber, Soderling and Karlovic. Comparatively it is still weak.
 
I admit the OP is correct about Murray's draw opening up for him. He is also taking well advantage of this, as he should. If Nadal and he both make it through to the semi's I expect Nadal wil have the greater burden of having played a draw with a ton of top talent as well as a five setter against Isner Etc. Things are looking very good for Murray at the moment :)

Lets also not forget that Murray has far less emotional distress to deal with. He is not expected to win this tournament and eyes are definately drawn on Nadal, Nole, (maybe even Fed since he has had better clay court results in the past and is in the twilight of his carreer to win slams). This burden of expectation is far less on Murray on this surface and this is definately a good thing for him.
 
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mellowyellow said:
I would not call that tougher, maybe equal and trickier but definately not tougher. Bennetau way more accomplished than Kendrick. Fish and Haas are way more competetive on grass than any of the guys on Murray draw. Would pick Haas over all in Murrays draw, and even against Murray. In fact the average ranking for Djoko is only 5 points higher and he had a 106 2nd rd skew his average. It pales to Fed playing Lu, Kohlshreiber, Soderling and Karlovic. Comparatively it is still weak.
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This is all subjective. What isn't subjective is that Murray was seeded 2 - and according to your hypothesis, that should have meant Murray had an easier draw than Novak - because 2 should get an easier draw than 3, and most importantly, Murray always gets easy draws (according to you). And yet there you are refuting your own hypothesis - by agreeing that Murray's draw was equally as hard as Novak's.

Either Murray's draw at Wimby 09 was at least as hard as Novak's or Murray always gets easier draws than Novak - which one of these mutually exclusive positions are you taking? Because you can't have both.
 
batz said:
Nope - the OP said that Murray has an easy draw at RG - and I agree with the OP 100%. It is you and you alone who is positing that Murray never has a tougher draw than his peers, so it would be up to you and you alone to provide the evidence for your hypothesis.

/B]
Define what you mean by 'screwed on a draw' and I'll have a look for you.
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What, is their a need for another Murray draw thread? I am not going to research it, when I have a very good general idea of his draws historically, and the draw posted was a failed attempt.
For me, it means playing a competent player early, on their better surface not their worst, not coming off injury and being match tough. Not someone that used to be good but is way past their competitive prime. Admittedly a few of those were tricky but steadiness is all that was needed to get through them. Had Murrays draw been at the French its a completely different dynamic, you can bet I would be agreeing with you, but it was Wimbledon.
 
batz said:
This is all subjective. What isn't subjective is that Murray was seeded 2 - and according to your hypothesis, that should have meant Murray had an easier draw than Novak - because 2 should get an easier draw than 3, and most importantly, Murray always gets easy draws (according to you). And yet there you are refuting your own hypothesis - by agreeing that Murray's draw was equally as hard as Novak's.

Either Murray's draw at Wimby 09 was at least as hard as Novak's or Murray always gets easier draws than Novak - which one of these mutually exclusive positions are you taking? Because you can't have both.
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I said maybe, don't be one of those posters, its me saying I am not going to argue about it because you have an agenda to argue. I would say Fish and Haas are tougher, more dangerous on grass than anyone in Murrays draw. I did forget this is the one instance where Murray is higher than Djoko, but then by that reasoning the draw is a moot point and cannot validate Murray having a tougher draw, being the number 4 historically can it? So why was it brought into the conversation?
 
mellowyellow said:
I said maybe, don't be one of those posters, its me saying I am not going to argue about it because you have an agenda to argue. I would say Fish and Haas are tougher, more dangerous on grass than anyone in Murrays draw. I did forget this is the one instance where Murray is higher than Djoko, but then by that reasoning the draw is a moot point and cannot validate Murray having a tougher draw, being the number 4 historically can it? So why was it brought into the conversation?
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Look mate - only one of us is making absolutist assertions that are unsupported by empirical data - and it ain't me. I have no agenda other than to refute daft statements like the one you made.

Murray has a cakewalk RG draw - I'm sure we both agree on that. You think this is part of a wider pattern - I don't. Simples.
 
So, you go ahead and find a draw where Murray was the hardest draw of the top 4 and he was ranked in the 4 spot. Then we will examine it......
 
And thats fine, I am not going to try to persuade you that their is some sort of backdoor stuff going on, but I am always suspicious. The way the organizations in any sport handle their testing and punishment, fines is not confidence inspiring in how I view the rest of the things they govern, draws included.
 
mellowyellow said:
And thats fine, I am not going to try to persuade you that their is some sort of backdoor stuff going on, but I am always suspicious. The way the organizations in any sport handle their testing and punishment, fines is not confidence inspiring in how I view the rest of the things they govern, draws included.
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I don't follow you.Are you trying to suggest that the draws may be loaded in Murray's favour? With the exception of Wimbledon,why on earth would the AO,the FO and the USO want to do Murray any favours? What's he to them?? :confused:
 
Mainad said:
I don't follow you.Are you trying to suggest that the draws may be loaded in Murray's favour? With the exception of Wimbledon,why on earth would the AO,the FO and the USO want to do Murray any favours? What's he to them?? :confused:
Click to expand...

You're forgetting about the Illuminati and the role played by the British Royal Family.
 
batz said:
You're forgetting about the Illuminati and the role played by the British Royal Family.
Click to expand...

Wow,is he one of them? I know he's considered the Anti-Christ by some of us on here,many from England curiously enough...or not,as the case may be! :twisted:
 
Mainad said:
Wow,is he one of them? I know he's considered the Anti-Christ by some of us on here,many from England curiously enough...or not,as the case may be! :twisted:
Click to expand...

Oh yes - check out the 'birthmark' on his calf. He's Illuminati alright. No doubt about it.
 
For me, it means playing a competent player early, on their better surface not their worst, not coming off injury and being match tough. Not someone that used to be good but is way past their competitive prime.
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Then the first issue that needs to be dealt with is that your idea of how to make a draw and the way it actually done by the ATP/ITF are totally different.

The only thing that matters -- repeat, only thing -- is the player's achievements(i.e., ranking as of the deadline). The reason I think this is much better is things like 'coming off injury', 'match tough', and even to some degree 'better surface' are all subjective. There's no good way to quantify those.

Let's analyze this FO for the 3 and 4 seeds since that seems to be the subject of discussion shall we? This shall be assuming that form holds, since it is not the draw-makers fault if it doesn't.

R128
Murray vs. Prodon(124)
Federer vs. F. Lopez(41)
Advantadge: Murray

R64
Murray vs. Bolelli(126)
Federer vs. Millot(152)
Advantadge: Even, very easy draw for both players

R32
Murray vs. Raonic(26)
Federer vs. Tipsarevic(29)

Advantadge: Federer. Raonic is the second-toughest draw possible, Tipsarevic is an average draw.

R16
Murray vs. Troicki(15)
Federer vs. Wawrinka(14)

Advantadge: Even. As average as draws can be, Gasquet was the tough draw, Verdasco the easy one, and they both went to the other quarters.

QF
Murray vs. Melzer(8 )
Federer vs. Ferrer(7)

Advantadge: Even. Both get easy quarters

SF
Murray vs. Nadal(1)
Federer vs. Djokovic(2)

Advantadge: Federer


Look, these draws are objectively quite even(both are pretty easy draws, but the point here is that there isn't all that much room for them being hard/easy because of the nature of how they are done, and also Federer has one notably harder round, Murray has one notably harder). The idea that people are rolling out the red carpet for him is just not supported by the facts.
 
Mainad said:
I don't follow you.Are you trying to suggest that the draws may be loaded in Murray's favour? With the exception of Wimbledon,why on earth would the AO,the FO and the USO want to do Murray any favours? What's he to them?? :confused:
Click to expand...

I am not going to get into that, but without him hanging around, the Semis will look awfully lopsided.
 
Bryan Swartz said:
Then the first issue that needs to be dealt with is that your idea of how to make a draw and the way it actually done by the ATP/ITF are totally different.

The only thing that matters -- repeat, only thing -- is the player's achievements(i.e., ranking as of the deadline). The reason I think this is much better is things like 'coming off injury', 'match tough', and even to some degree 'better surface' are all subjective. There's no good way to quantify those.
There is no good way to quantify someones performances on surfaces through their career, and who they beat or lost too?
Let's analyze this FO for the 3 and 4 seeds since that seems to be the subject of discussion shall we? This shall be assuming that form holds, since it is not the draw-makers fault if it doesn't.

R128
Murray vs. Prodon(124)
Federer vs. F. Lopez(41)
Advantadge: Murray

R64
Murray vs. Bolelli(126)
Federer vs. Millot(152)
Advantadge: Even, very easy draw for both players

R32
Murray vs. Raonic(26)
Federer vs. Tipsarevic(29)

Advantage: Murray, Tipsy much better performer on clay than Raonic is at this point in his career.

R16
Murray vs. Troicki(15)
Federer vs. Wawrinka(14)

Advantage: Murray, again Wawrinka not even playing his best tennis in his career still higher than Troicki and clay his better surface, Troicki is probably a medium hard. If Wawrinak loses its still Tsonga, if Troicki loses its Dolgo and while a young hopeful clay doesn't seem to be his surface as of yet.

QF
Murray vs. Melzer(8 )
Federer vs. Ferrer(7)

Advantage: Murray, do you even watch tennis? This had to be a DJoke to think this is even, your post are losing credibility trying to justify this. Ferrer comparatively a supreme clay courter, but also a better career player overall.

SF
Murray vs. Nadal(1)
Federer vs. Djokovic(2)
Advantage: Even its the semi and you are playing either 1, 2, 3, 4.... what more could you ask for?

Look, these draws are objectively quite even(both are pretty easy draws, but the point here is that there isn't all that much room for them being hard/easy because of the nature of how they are done, and also Federer has one notably harder round, Murray has one notably harder). The idea that people are rolling out the red carpet for him is just not supported by the facts.
Click to expand...

Whatever you want to think about how even, I am done with this thread.
 
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