Calling a Foot Fault

[tennis_ocd]

Followed some guy to work and witnessed his left front tire cross the road centerline on the way to work. Cheater! Probably got him there 0.002 sec earlier that he would have otherwise; no doubt used much less gas than rules would require.

Flagged down first PO I saw but he seemed surprisingly uninterested. SAD.

Hear's hoping sun rises tomorrow.

 

[tennis tom]

Followed some guy to work and witnessed his left front tire cross the road centerline on the way to work.

I wouldn't follow him too closely or you may become one of his victims. Hopefully your reflexes are fast enough to avoid the debris field he leaves behind when he gets into a head-on. Reporting him to the cops was a good idea, he may have been drunk.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Ok, here's another take. My wife is a tennis fan, former player. She sees a guy in our 4.0 league foot-faulting egregiously. Big guy, 6', 5", and big server, big hitter. Has a personal pro at the club, sitting there watching the matches. So she mentions the foot-fault. Pro goes court side, comes back in and says, "you're right, he is foot-faulting every time, but technically he is not foot-faulting, because he's not gaining an advantage."

Now we know that isn't the rule, seems like the pro covering for his guy - who he's been touting too. So when I go and have to play the guy ... am I supposed to call a foot-fault??? I saw it, it is obvious .... BUT if not going to be supported, and it's going to raise hell ... so I won't. Will just beat the guy and his foot-fault edge.

 

[newpball]

Pro goes court side, comes back in and says, "you're right, he is foot-faulting every time, but technically he is not foot-faulting, because he's not gaining an advantage."

Easy: the pro is an idiot!

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

How strange. On the one hand, you say people should follow the rules and not FF. They should follow the rule, because rules are rules. On the other hand, you blow off the rule that you can't call a FF without a warning and/or getting an official. So . . . do we have a problem with consistency? It seems like we do.

Huh? 10 chars.

The poster is suggesting – incorrectly, I believe – that because the word "rule" applies in both cases there is no distinction worth making between (a) gaining an advantage by violating a rule of play that all players know (i.e., don't foot-fault) and (b) not knowing the correct procedure for getting that rule enforced (i.e., ask 'em to stop and request an ump before calling it).

 

[illzoni]

The poster is suggesting – incorrectly, I believe – that because the word "rule" applies in both cases there is no distinction worth making between (a) gaining an advantage by violating a rule of play that all players know (i.e., don't foot-fault) and (b) not knowing the correct procedure for getting that rule enforced (i.e., ask 'em to stop and request an ump before calling it).

Where's that darn *LIKE* button?

 

[Cindysphinx]

Tennis players are not allowed to touch the line before making contact with the serve.

Tennis players are not supposed to call a foot fault without warning or getting an official.

It is wrong to insist upon compliance with the first thing while blowing off the second thing.

Simple, yes?

 

[Overdrive]

Nerd!!!!

Tennis players are not allowed to touch the line before making contact with the serve.

Tennis players are not supposed to call a foot fault without warning or getting an official.

It is wrong to insist upon compliance with the first thing while blowing off the second thing.

Simple, yes?

 

[TimeSpiral]

Tennis players are not allowed to touch the line before making contact with the serve.

Tennis players are not supposed to call a foot fault without warning or getting an official.

It is wrong to insist upon compliance with the first thing while blowing off the second thing.

Simple, yes?

Strong argument, truly. But I must push back and insist that you're wrong--albeit, on a technicality of logic.

The rules of tennis are black and white, published and governed by the ITF:

18. FOOT FAULT
During the service motion,
the server shall not:
a. Change position by walk
ing or running, although s
light movements of the
feet are permitted; or
b. Touch the baseline or the court with either foot; or
c. Touch the area outside the imaginary
extension of the sideline with either
foot; or
d. Touch the imaginary extension of
the centre mark with either foot.
If the server breaks this ru
le it is a “Foot Fault”.

The "rule" you're referring to is from A Friend at Court, which is a USTA publication. It governs how tennis is played in the United States. So, since this is likely a US tournament, then "The Code," applies.

Seems your argument still holds water, in a certain way, but it's still not "simple," as you suggested.

The foot fault is a primary rule of tennis, declared by the ITF. It governs how the game is played. Put simply, you cannot touch or cross the line while serving. Since every point is started with a serve, the foot fault is one of the most fundamental rules in tennis.

This rule in the code that suggests that an official shall be notified first, and then after flagrant foot faults continue, the player can call a foot fault, is not a primary rule of how to play the game, but a technicality on how to officiate the game. Very, very different. Equating the two rules is asinine, imho.

Virtually everyone knows you cannot foot fault. Right? Right. I'd wager virtually nobody knows the exact procedure required for a player to call a flagrant foot fault when the officials choose not to.

Put simply: I win. You lose. :twisted::twisted::twisted:

I still love you though.

 

[Silent]

Tennis players are not allowed to touch the line before making contact with the serve.

Tennis players are not supposed to call a foot fault without warning or getting an official.

It is wrong to insist upon compliance with the first thing while blowing off the second thing.

Simple, yes?

Yes.

The person who foot faults, and refuses to stop foot faulting because he wasn't warned properly, absolutely knows he doesn't have the right to foot fault, absolutely knows that he foot faults, and absolutely knows the rule about how to warn someone about foot faulting, yet he continues to do so because his opponent does not know how to warn him.

However simple your logic is, the situation I described is called a perversion.

Tennis is a gentleman's (woman) sport. The guy who purposely foot faults: it's not about warning him properly. It's about letting him on the court at all, because I don't know what game that is, but it sure isn't tennis.

It's not just about knowing the rules, it's about following the rules also. Maybe there should be a rule about that...

 

[guitarplayer]

I don't get how anyone can defend foot faulting. So you can step 4 or 5 inches inside the lines when you serve?????? great don't call any of my shots out unless they are 4 or 5 inches outside of the lines. Fair?

 

[tennis tom]

Cindy FYI, there's a quote attributed to Mark Twain: "Never argue with a man who buys ink by the barrel."

 

[Cindysphinx]

Cindy FYI, there's a quote attributed to Mark Twain: "Never argue with a man who buys ink by the barrel."

True, that.

They are using so many words to express a very simple idea. What idea are they expressing?

"Two wrongs make a right."

 

[TimeSpiral]

True, that.

They are using so many words to express a very simple idea. What idea are they expressing?

"Two wrongs make a right."

That's a cop-out ^

Succinct enough?

:twisted:

 

[gameboy]

TimeSpiral is psychotic...

 

[TimeSpiral]

TimeSpiral is psychotic...

 

[sureshs]

Tennis players are not allowed to touch the line before making contact with the serve.

Tennis players are not supposed to call a foot fault without warning or getting an official.

It is wrong to insist upon compliance with the first thing while blowing off the second thing.

Simple, yes?

No.

There are procedures to be followed in reporting a crime, but not following the procedures is considered much less serious than the crime itself. Even for police investigations, judges do not throw out convictions because of minor issues during the investigation, but only when there is a systematic bias or a constitutional matter.

 

[slowfox]

Followed some guy to work and witnessed his left front tire cross the road centerline on the way to work. Cheater! Probably got him there 0.002 sec earlier that he would have otherwise; no doubt used much less gas than rules would require.

Perhaps not the best analogy. Hmm, I'm guessing you foot fault...

Ok, here's another take. My wife is a tennis fan, former player. She sees a guy in our 4.0 league foot-faulting egregiously. Big guy, 6', 5", and big server, big hitter. Has a personal pro at the club, sitting there watching the matches. So she mentions the foot-fault. Pro goes court side, comes back in and says, "you're right, he is foot-faulting every time, but technically he is not foot-faulting, because he's not gaining an advantage."

Um...technically he is. This pro fits the "dumb jock" stereotypes.

I don't get how anyone can defend foot faulting. So you can step 4 or 5 inches inside the lines when you serve?????? great don't call any of my shots out unless they are 4 or 5 inches outside of the lines. Fair?

I agree with this. I also don't get the laissez-faire attitude some people take with foot faulting. And for those who say "mind your side of the net", if the ball bounced twice on the other side before contact, would you let someone get away with that?

 

[tennis_ocd]

No.

There are procedures to be followed in reporting a crime, but not following the procedures is considered much less serious than the crime itself. Even for police investigations, judges do not throw out convictions because of minor issues during the investigation, but only when there is a systematic bias or a constitutional matter.

There aren't so much procedures to be followed to report; but procedures required to enforce and they are every bit as important. This very case being discussed should highlight that fact. Random and sudden calling of a foot fault and attempt to immediately capture a point was, imo, significantly more egregious that some "weak" mixed double girl stepping over the line. It makes a sham of the match. And spiral's claim of ignorance as a defense is silly.

 

[TimeSpiral]

There aren't so much procedures to be followed to report; but procedures required to enforce and they are every bit as important. This very case being discussed should highlight that fact. Random and sudden calling of a foot fault and attempt to immediately capture a point was, imo, significantly more egregious that some "weak" mixed double girl stepping over the line. It makes a sham of the match. And spiral's claim of ignorance as a defense is silly.

Maybe I made that argument, but more my argument is: foot faulting is a fundamental rule of tennis. The procedure in question, outlined in the A friend at Court, is a United States regulation detailing the enforcement of that rule during officiated matches. While enforcement procedure is definitely important, I do not weigh them with the same level of importance.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Ok, so yesterday I played my 6' 5" foot-fault guy. It turned out to be a great match, went three sets and I won, but had to hang on in the final set and serve it out at 5-4. Then grabbed a cup of coffee and a bite at a nearby diner with the guy, a good guy.

I get home and my wife asks me, "did you bring up the foot-faulting...?" To which I answered, "no, I completely forgot about it..." And in fact I did. It was an early match, even with pushing the clocks back (I was up at 6:00 A.M.) I guess I just forgot...

Anywho, not to defend foot-faulting, not calling it at the club level ... but I had a great time, a bashfest, and if I ceded this advantage ... so be it. Again, not an excuse, nor an argument, just an account of what transpired.

Last I called an egregious foot-faulter, back in another club, some years ago -- guy had a fit, then went back to doing it, daring me basically to 'do what you have to do...' and was a d*&k to me the rest of the time I was at that club (he was there before me, probably still there for all I know -- hey Darrin!)

 

[Cindysphinx]

Maybe I made that argument, but more my argument is: foot faulting is a fundamental rule of tennis. The procedure in question, outlined in the A friend at Court, is a United States regulation detailing the enforcement of that rule during officiated matches. While enforcement procedure is definitely important, I do not weigh them with the same level of importance.

They are not the same level of importance.

An inadvertent foot fault is inadvertent. It is a rules violation, to be sure, but most likely due to lack of skill or carelessness.

Deliberately claiming a point or an advantage (i.e. denying a first serve) by calling a FF in a situation the rules do not allow you to call it is a more egregious offense.

If you want to call flagrant FFs, you need to warn first or find an official. That's the rule.

 

[illzoni]

Some responders have taken exception (directly and indirectly) to the manner in which my son responded to the foot faulter.

If any of you thinks it's reasonably incumbent upon an 11 year old to be so versed on the rules as to understand the prerequisite for warning the offender on this item.....well, I just don't get it. And I'm happy for you having raised children that had the knowledge and patience of 40 year olds when they were preteens.

I acknowledge that my son didn't follow the rules. And clarified that my beef was with the official not only failing to educate him, but providing false information. Kids at this age (except for those borne by those I address in para 2 above) are learning, and all involved adults should be facilitating that objective.

Further, although I haven't previously expressed it clearly, I was pretty irritated with the opponents' coach. They were or should've been aware of their player's ongoing foot faulting. They should've corrected it. Vilifying my son when he called her on it is disingenuous at best.

The entire discussion around the subtopic I raised makes one thing clear...
If you're not willing to call (ask them to quit) someone who foot faults right away, you best be prepared to tolerate it forever or be branded a cheat when you do.

 

[Orange]

illzoni--yes, the official was wrong. The official was wrong in not explaining the rule to your son. The official was wrong in not allowing your son to call subsequent FFs because your son's attempted call of the FF would constitute a warning (there is no way the girl could claim she didn't know she was doing it after all of this). The official might have been wrong in saying that he couldn't call FFs (if he can't, why is he there?--USTA officials in USTA junior tournaments can and do call FFs.) He was wrong.

The opponents' coach was wrong to even speak to your son during a match. It seems that this event must be one that allows coaching--but if so, that would mean coaching of your own player on changeovers, not telling an opponent that he couldn't do something during a game. The coach was wrong.

While your son didn't know the rule, it appears that the girl serving didn't either, because she, not the coach, should have said, "You can't call a FF without giving a warning."

Now your son knows this rule, however.

 

[bad_call]

know a tall fellow who at times takes a few steps into the court when serving. he ends up in HIS service box by the time the ball lands in MINE and i say "are you effing kidding me? lol"... think at times he gets a bit excited and chases an errant toss.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Some responders have taken exception (directly and indirectly) to the manner in which my son responded to the foot faulter.

If any of you thinks it's reasonably incumbent upon an 11 year old to be so versed on the rules as to understand the prerequisite for warning the offender on this item.....well, I just don't get it. And I'm happy for you having raised children that had the knowledge and patience of 40 year olds when they were preteens.

I acknowledge that my son didn't follow the rules. And clarified that my beef was with the official not only failing to educate him, but providing false information. Kids at this age (except for those borne by those I address in para 2 above) are learning, and all involved adults should be facilitating that objective.

Further, although I haven't previously expressed it clearly, I was pretty irritated with the opponents' coach. They were or should've been aware of their player's ongoing foot faulting. They should've corrected it. Vilifying my son when he called her on it is disingenuous at best.

The entire discussion around the subtopic I raised makes one thing clear...
If you're not willing to call (ask them to quit) someone who foot faults right away, you best be prepared to tolerate it forever or be branded a cheat when you do.

You are correct that kids that young often do not know the rules. This is understandable.

I guess the silver lining here is that from now until the day your son stops playing, he will understand the FF rule and its enforcement. He will also know he has the right to call for the tournament referee.

It is a shame the official got it really, really wrong if he really said he is not allowed to call a FF. *If* that is actually what the official said. One thing about 11-year-olds: They sometimes misunderstand things that are said to them.

I mean, it is quite possible that the official said that he cannot call a foot fault if he didn't see it himself. So if your son called a FF the rules don't allow him to call, perhaps the official was explaining that the official wasn't in direct observance and thus cannot sustain your son's call?

I don't know if that is the case, obviously. Did you hear what the official said yourself? If so, you should seriously consider writing a polite email to the officiating committee asking that this official be set straight.

I once wrote an email complaint about officiating blunders made by one official and I received a satisfactory reply.

 

[Orange]

CindySphinx brings up a good point. However, if the official was saying he couldn't call a FF he didn't see himself, he should have observed both sides serving for a few games and called any FFs he saw.

 

[sureshs]

An inadvertent foot fault is inadvertent. It is a rules violation, to be sure, but most likely due to lack of skill or carelessness.

Not what I see. It may be inadvertent and careless, but you don't use these words to describe something someone does every time, all the time.

 

[RetroSpin]

Cindy makes some good points. It's entirely possible the young man misunderstood the official. It's also possible the official was just wrong, or maybe didn't want to get sucked into a squabble between some young kids.

Illzoni, you are reacting like people are attacking your kid. I don't think that is the case at all. I don't know when juniors playing tournaments should be expected to know the proper way to address FFs. It seems a lot to expect of an 11 year old, but I am not involved in juniors. So no one is faulting him for not knowing, merely pointing out that he didn't follow the correct protocol.

 

[tennis_ocd]

Now your son knows this rule, however.

And during the next 11 y.o. mixed doubles match he'll be prepared to win a point or two by a timely ff call on some weak serving girl. Oh yeah!

Suresh can mentor him. Start calling ff's on adults from the club sidelines. Break 30,000 posts. If very weak, gut4tennis can teach him how to pelt her at the net. Much to learn here there is. His future is bright.

 

[Orange]

And during the next 11 y.o. mixed doubles match he'll be prepared to win a point or two by a timely ff call on some weak serving girl. Oh yeah!

No, because the rule says that a player must warn the opponent before calling a foot fault. I would hope that the girl would then correct her serve so that she wouldn't foot fault again.

Also, I support the concepts of learning from disappointing experiences and playing by the rules. Perhaps the next time the boy will need to know this rule is when an opponent tries to call a FF on him or on his partner.

 

[tennis_ocd]

No, because the rule says that a player must warn the opponent before calling a foot fault. I would hope that the girl would then correct her serve so that she wouldn't foot fault again.

Also, I support the concepts of learning from disappointing experiences and playing by the rules. Perhaps the next time the boy will need to know this rule is when an opponent tries to call a FF on him or on his partner.

The kid will have a much more gratifying tennis experience if he learns from this experience to keep his eye on the big picture and stop worrying about the feet of a weak girl in mixed.

Or he can be become *that guy* He can grow up and call a ff on the weak senior lady at his adult club mixed event. Pull out the rule book and prove he's right. Enjoy.

 

[Orange]

The kid will have a much more gratifying tennis experience if he learns from this experience to keep his eye on the big picture and stop worrying about the feet of a weak girl in mixed.

Or he can be become *that guy* He can grow up and call a ff on the weak senior lady at his adult club mixed event. Pull out the rule book and prove he's right. Enjoy.

ocd, I'm not sure you're getting my point. The fact that a warning is required, and the boy now knows this, means that he might never call a FF again. And knowing the rule doesn't mean that he has to invoke it.

I once nicely told an opponent after the warm-up for a league match that I noticed that she was foot-faulting on her serve by stepping over the baseline. She was a beginner whose serve motion was toss, step, hit--it consisted of tossing the ball, stepping into the court, and then hitting down on the ball, causing most of her serves to go into the net. After I told her she was stepping over the line, she tossed the ball, kept her feet still behind the baseline and hit up on the ball. It was like a lob serve, she was able to get most of them in during the match, and it was actually somewhat of an interesting serve to have to return because it was different from most. I actually did her a favor by telling her about her FF.

I very seldom mention FFs to my opponents. It is still a good idea to know the rule.

 

[SCRAP IRON]

The cool thing to do would be to play your game. Spend less time thinking about things like this and more on real match strategy.

I disagree with this poster even though he has a picture of one of my all-time favorite sneakers! The way to handle it is simple. Approach him before the match during warm-ups and mention it to him. Heck, it may get into his head and you might get some free points. But at least you won't be cheating.

 

[TimeSpiral]

Maybe I made that argument, but more my argument is: foot faulting is a fundamental rule of tennis. The procedure in question, outlined in the A friend at Court, is a United States regulation detailing the enforcement of that rule during officiated matches. While enforcement procedure is definitely important, I do not weigh them with the same level of importance.

They are not the same level of importance.

An inadvertent foot fault is inadvertent. It is a rules violation, to be sure, but most likely due to lack of skill or carelessness.

Deliberately claiming a point or an advantage (i.e. denying a first serve) by calling a FF in a situation the rules do not allow you to call it is a more egregious offense.

If you want to call flagrant FFs, you need to warn first or find an official. That's the rule.

Maybe others don't see what you're doing here, but I do. You qualify the foot faults as inadvertent, careless, or perhaps lack of skill, and then acknowledge the rules violation. However, you have no knowledge to support the claim that the foot fault is anything other than a foot fault.

You then suggest the child attempting to call the obvious breach of rules is "deliberately claiming a point of advantage," you imply that the child was aware he couldn't do this, and then you qualify this violation as an egregious offense, when you have no knowledge to support the claim that the attempted call was anything other than an attempted call.

I call BS, even though you think you're sounding reasonable.

 

[tennis_ocd]

ocd, I'm not sure you're getting my point. The fact that a warning is required, and the boy now knows this, means that he might never call a FF again. And knowing the rule doesn't mean that he has to invoke it.

Bro code trumps any tennis code. Add to list: You don't call ffs on a weak female in mixed. Never.

 

[tennis_ocd]

Been my observation that pros regularly -- some always, ff while warming up pre match.

 

[liam1]

Played a league doubles match today and got warned for footfaulting for the first time ever despite playing league for years. Now as far as I am aware I don't footfault but how can I argue the point. I can't see my feet whilst serving. My momentum carries me into the court after hitting the ball and I think this is what my opponent saw. Anyway to avoid hassle I stepped back another six inches from the baseline and won 6-0,6-1. BTW I don't know how people are so aware of opponents footfaults during warmup as typically all 4 players are on the baseline and serving back and forth to each other. So from the servers point of view how can I be sure the receiver wasn't just trying to wind me up? Also bear in mind that my partner has his back to me and can't support me.

 

[r2473]

I got called for a footfault in a match last weekend. So did my opponent. Both of us just moved a a few inches back for our serves, and played normal. Neither of us got called for a second footfault (and she was watching us like hawks).

The official seemed a bit "hurt" that neither of us cared about the call. No arguing or complaining. In fact, neither of us said a word or even looked at her. I acted so oblivious that she stopped me on the changeover to make sure I had heard her (my serve was a fault anyway). I just, "ya".

Actually, after that, she seemed to have a certain respect for both of us. It was a really hard fought match that lasted about 3 hours. Both of us were pretty focused and playing really hard.

She called a footfault on a guy on the neighboring court and he went ballistic. This guy is about 6 feet 7 inches I'd say. Former D1 college baseball pitcher. I actually serve within a few MPH's of him (and I'm just over 6 feet tall).

Both matches were championship matches. Both were 3 tight sets (with a really nosy official watching everything very closely).

 

[Bartelby]

There was a long discussion about this and the rule in america is:


1. warn the player

2. call an official

3. if no official then call a foot fault and this must be respected by your opponent as any line call would be

 

[Cindysphinx]

I played social mixed doubles this weekend. My male partner and opposing female were FFing like mad.

I could see my partner because we played two back when he served to the man. A couple of steps into the court to float in second serves, but he didn't S&V. Opposing female was a Toss Chaser, and she would go wherever she needed to go to reach that toss. She also did not come to net.

Of the two, she definitely got more of an advantage. She had lefty slice. The more insane her FF, the more insane her spin.

Still, no reason to say anything. Social match and all . . . .

 

[liam1]

There was a long discussion about this and the rule in america is:


1. warn the player

2. call an official

3. if no official then call a foot fault and this must be respected by your opponent as any line call would be

Not sure about this. There are no officials at a USTA league game. It's also not the same as a line call because more than one person has a view of a line call. The server can't see his feet at the time of impact nor can his partner. The receiver shouldn't be able to see his feet either so it's down to the word of one player. Only one of my opponent's mentioned it to me and he was such a weak player that I'm not sure he knows what a footfault is. Everyone can footfault once in a while even pros, saw Almagro getting called a few times lately so no one can say they never do it.

 

[tennis tom]

... the rule in america is:

b, cap key not working again, huh. Is that North AMERICA, Central AMERICA or South AMERICA? How's the job at Macy's working out for ya'?

 

[TimeSpiral]

b, cap key not working again, huh. Is that North AMERICA, Central AMERICA or South AMERICA? How's the job at Macy's working out for ya'?

Lulz ^

That's why when you're referring to the location, you say the United States, or the US, and when you're using the demonym for the United States, you say "American."

 

[r2473]

Lulz ^

That's why when you're referring to the location, you say the United States, or the US, and when you're using the demonym for the United States, you say "American."

I thought you say "Murrican"

 

[epicondylitis]

Maybe others don't see what you're doing here, but I do. You qualify the foot faults as inadvertent, careless, or perhaps lack of skill, and then acknowledge the rules violation. However, you have no knowledge to support the claim that the foot fault is anything other than a foot fault.
I call BS, even though you think you're sounding reasonable.

Agreed. I find it interesting that certain posters defend breaches and sidestepping the rules across the board. They use statements like "work on your own game" as if that has any significance in the context of the discussion.

Recently, I was the only 3.0 on the court with 3 other 4.0 players in a "social" match. I mentioned to the offending player's partner that he was foot faulting on almost all of his serves in the hopes he would say something to his partner. He did not, and the practice continued. This guy would place his toes as close to the line as possible, toss the ball, and shuffle his feet, ending up with at least one, and sometimes both feet completely inside the line. The only time he didn't ff was when an errant toss was well behind his head. So the next time I served, I set my feet about 2 inches from the line as I normally do, tossed the ball, stepped forward with my front foot and hit the ball as hard as I could. I was surprised at how much easier it was to hit the ball in. I df'd once, hit 3 service winners, and got a weak return for an easy put away by my partner. Later, I found out that the offending player asked his partner "how far in is he gonna come"? LOL

 

[TimeSpiral]

I thought you say "Murrican"

Correction: If you're referring to a right-leaning American, the correct term is 'merican (MAY-er-ken).

Agreed. I find it interesting that certain posters defend breaches and sidestepping the rules across the board. They use statements like "work on your own game" as if that has any significance in the context of the discussion.

Recently, I was the only 3.0 on the court with 3 other 4.0 players in a "social" match. I mentioned to the offending player's partner that he was foot faulting on almost all of his serves in the hopes he would say something to his partner. He did not, and the practice continued. This guy would place his toes as close to the line as possible, toss the ball, and shuffle his feet, ending up with at least one, and sometimes both feet completely inside the line. The only time he didn't ff was when an errant toss was well behind his head. So the next time I served, I set my feet about 2 inches from the line as I normally do, tossed the ball, stepped forward with my front foot and hit the ball as hard as I could. I was surprised at how much easier it was to hit the ball in. I df'd once, hit 3 service winners, and got a weak return for an easy put away by my partner. Later, I found out that the offending player asked his partner "how far in is he gonna come"? LOL

We're in playoffs in our league right now. Just found a W against my Round of 32 opponent. He was a really nice guy and we ended up shooting the breeze a little bit. He warned me about the top seed, in not so many words.

I said, "I will guess, and you tell me if I'm correct." After he agreed, I continued with, "Lines are out of play on his side of the court?"

He smirked. "Try: a foot inside the line is out of play. But it doesn't stop there. He rushes you on the second serve. He never calls the score, and will argue with you about the score when you call it. I believe he's been reported a couple of times already."

Hard to wonder why a guy like this is the number one seed. It's pretty hard to lose when you play like that at the rec level. It really is, because most people are non-confrontational by nature and will try and stay "above" the cheater. He also earned the top seed by reporting scores for 8 matches in a 7 match regular season (lol).

But this got me thinking. If I end up facing this guy in the semis--should I play well enough to get that far--perhaps I should be prepared for flagrant cheating. What would I do?

I will probably not fight fire with fire. That's just not my style. I will freshen up on the league rules, and if he's truly a cheater like it's being reported, then I will follow the grievance procedures (unless I can just romp him even with him cheating, but that's unlikely).

Sorry for the long rant, but your approach to the foot faulter maybe think of this.

 

[dlam]

i would get my friend to use my Iphone 5s and start video beside him when he serves,
When there is critical point in the match. like deuce point. make the foot fault call
there will arguing that will ensue.
then you will get your phone and show the obvious foot fault that your opponent made.
end of discussion.
he will be so rattled, he will double fault on next game point.

 

[dman72]

OP, don't spend too much time dancing around the issue and giving him extra chances. I've seen before what you describe, and it is not someone who doesn't realize what he is doing. It will already have been pointed out to him by angry opponents; he won't be shaken by your bringing it up. Unless you're mistaken in your description, he's cheating.

For those who haven't experienced it, try hitting hard, flat serves from 6" to 8" inside the baseline and see what happens to your serve percentages. It makes an amazing difference.

(OP, that experiment may also give you an idea for a Plan C, if neither requesting a competent linesman nor asking the guy to play by the rules works. Obviously, doing what he does is not a desirable way to play a match – but there is no real match without a single set of rules that both sides play by.)

This. I have a handful of guys in my league who FF on every serve, but most of their serves suck.

One guy actually has a huge serve, but normally he's at about 20% so I let it slide with him too. Both his feet are inside the line when he makes contact.

One night I'm playing this guy, and about 70% are going in, and now I'm struggling to win any points on his serve.

I decided to start serving from inside the baseline also....yes 6 inches inside the line makes a very big difference in how many first serves go in. When your flat serve clears the net about under a foot, absolutely.

I wonder how many of the guys saying it isn't cool knowingly foot fault themselves, since I'm seeing it rampantly with people I play.

 

[tennis tom]

This thread has convinced me I'm the world's biggest schmuck for not using the "foot-faulting doesn't matter" strategy to my advantage. Folks here who don't think it's a big deal have finally convinced me. At the club level it would be way un-cool to call a FF, so why worry? I could use six inches on serves to help it go in and not hit the tape. When my serves go long I sometimes move back six inches to keep the ball from going long--by moving in about six inches I'm just averaging things out--relatively speaking, right? The question is how far in can one go before it can be clearly discerned by the other side?--I guess that depends on how good--or bad their eyesight is?

I'm looking forward to trying this new, for me, strategy and seeing the results. When I FF'ed three in a row recently into the tape, they may well have gone over utilizing the "FF'ing doesn't matter" strategy. Of course, I would never think of doing this in a tournament, or against people I respect, only against numb-nutz. At tournaments there are roving referees and tournament players would call you on it and ask for an umpire if you didn't stop it.