Calling a hindrance for something other team said

[OnTheLine]

Okay, Districts match last night ....

We are playing arguably the top team in the league. They have been playing as partners for over 3 years.

Throughout the match, I kept thinking I was "off" and shouldn't have restrung my racquet the week before as all my balls are being called long.

First set, we are tied up 3 all. I call a ball long. I am behind the baseline and ball bounces behind me. I get the "Are you sure?" question. I say I am and nothing more. I hate arguing on courts.

Next point, same opponent calls a clearly in (by at least a foot) ball as out in retaliation. I ask her if we need a referee if she is going to play like that.

Fast forward, still first set, we are tied up at 5 all.
Long point rally, ball is on our side, my partner says "bounce it" it is in, I play it back, point continues at least another 4 shots before we ultimately win it as they dumped ball into the net. Same opposing player now asks for a Hindrance ... because my partner spoke during the point and we should play it over.

I respond that she did not call it out, she said bounce it, and I played it as a good ball, her partner played it back and there is no hindrance. Her partner said that its all good.

Next point, you guessed it, retaliation call. A very clearly in shot in the ally, no where near the line is called "out". She then looks at me and says "you should have let us play that other point again".

I call for a referee then. He is there for the rest of that set and the ensuing tie breaker.

It was amazing how many of our shots were suddenly "good" . I guess it wasn't my new strings or having an off day after all!

On the "Hindrance" issue, was I correct? From my best reading of the rules, I think it was accurate, but it is hard to be certain of nuance and interpretation in the heat of the match!

p.s. we did ultimately end up losing 7-6(12-10); 5-7; 1-0 (14-12) but everything was fair from there on out.

 

[kylebarendrick]

1) Your partner can speak while the ball is heading toward you
2) If they are going to call a hindrance, they have to do so immediately
3) Under no circumstances do you get to call a hindrance after a point has ended

 

[OnTheLine]

ah, I was focusing only on point #1, ignoring both points 2 and 3 .... those in fact may be more important. thanks!

 

[Dartagnan64]

kylebarendrick has said all that needs to be said. Your opponents need to go read the Tennis Code ASAP.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

Those guys seem like real jerks and cheaters. What a coincidence that the set you had a referee for you won, but as soon as the ref left you lost.

 

[OnTheLine]

They are most unpleasant to play with. But I need to keep my anger in check so that it does not mess with my play. That is on me.

In an un-officiated match, or in a match with only roaming officials, can a player on a court call for a point penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct? (e.g. retaliation, racquet/ball abuse, verbal abuse)

Thankfully, this problem really doesn't come up until now, so I haven't ever wanted the answer before!

 

[esgee48]

They cheated. As soon as you suspect this is going on, call for an official to stay the entire match. If the official leaves, and this occurs again, call for an official again. You cannot and should not retaliate. Reputed cheaters are known to the officials whether you believe it or not. That's why there are officials roving and watching. Fortunately, as you go higher in ability, this occurs less and less. Not so much because these players fear retaliation, but they know the game and they know each other. The very few people who have reps for cheating are very well known and they know officials watch them like hawks during playoffs. Several blatant overrules and the person can be warned or defaulted.

As far as calling a point penalty, you have to warn them first. Can't do anything without that 1st warning. Whether the match continues is problematical. That's why you should call for an official for the match.

 

[chrisingrassia]

Never fails to amaze me how serious some opponents can be. So desperate to win at social USTA tennis. Good lord.
No joke.....literally, I'm not joking about this.....if my opponent clearly chips me on a call for no reason whatsoever or just to be a ******, every single shot/overhead/volley/T-serve is directly at my opponent. Right at them. It either hits them or it's in. There is absolutely no reason why sportsmanship goes the wayside against winning/losing.

Was this a women's match by any chance OP?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Should've called a ref and asked them to stay after the first "retaliation call". When it's obvious they're hooking you, just have the ref stick around since you know the other team is going to try and steal points from you at every chance.

 

[OnTheLine]

Yes @chrisingrassia a women's match. The entire team has a reputation and is from a quite exclusive club. My observation is that the public club teams tend to be exceptionally fair whereas the country club teams tend towards the opposite, but that just might be my proletarian bias.

Officials were called on other courts during the match as well. One did get a point penalty for retaliation followed by a 2nd code violation resulting in a game penalty. That was from a roaming official, not one on the court.

There is no Mercedes in the parking lot waiting to be claimed by the winner ... so the drive to win at all costs baffles me as well.

 

[Traffic]

Yes @chrisingrassia a women's match. The entire team has a reputation and is from a quite exclusive club. My observation is that the public club teams tend to be exceptionally fair whereas the country club teams tend towards the opposite, but that just might be my proletarian bias.

Officials were called on other courts during the match as well. One did get a point penalty for retaliation followed by a 2nd code violation resulting in a game penalty. That was from a roaming official, not one on the court.

There is no Mercedes in the parking lot waiting to be claimed by the winner ... so the drive to win at all costs baffles me as well.

Maybe they drove up in a Mercedes. This is obviously over generalization. But watching juniors play, some of the worst behaviors and line calls in order to win come from affluent players. They probably got that from a win-at-all-cost attitude to get them to their socio-economic status. Losing is not an option. No matter the venue. And when they do lose, they look for any possible outlet to blame rather than they were beat.

Sorry about the rank. My son is starting to run up to players that have unfair line calls and even have creative score keeping and will argue to no end they are right.

 

[chrisingrassia]

Yes @chrisingrassia a women's match. The entire team has a reputation and is from a quite exclusive club. My observation is that the public club teams tend to be exceptionally fair whereas the country club teams tend towards the opposite, but that just might be my proletarian bias.

Officials were called on other courts during the match as well. One did get a point penalty for retaliation followed by a 2nd code violation resulting in a game penalty. That was from a roaming official, not one on the court.

There is no Mercedes in the parking lot waiting to be claimed by the winner ... so the drive to win at all costs baffles me as well.

I'll be totally completely honest -- I see this type of stuff 100x more in the women's game than my men's matches. Obviously my scope is limited to just my region thus far that I've played in, but your post adds to the fire. It's why I don't play mixed at all, constant drama and I've had female partners so lazy to get to a ball they'd prefer just call it out.
For me personally, if my opponent's shot is even within an inch of a line, it's in. I play it. I'm out there to play tennis, sweat, get fresh air, and just enjoy the sport. It's a shame that some players resort to lying, deception, and cheating to win a friggin' USTA match.

 

[bobbything]

Maybe they drove up in a Mercedes. This is obviously over generalization. But watching juniors play, some of the worst behaviors and line calls in order to win come from affluent players. They probably got that from a win-at-all-cost attitude to get them to their socio-economic status. Losing is not an option. No matter the venue. And when they do lose, they look for any possible outlet to blame rather than they were beat.

Sorry about the rank. My son is starting to run up to players that have unfair line calls and even have creative score keeping and will argue to no end they are right.

Interesting. I've found, in my experience, that the racquet club and rec players make far more egregious calls than the country clubbers. Typically I've found that the country clubbers just want to go out and have a good time. The racquet clubbers and rec leaguers seem to be far more competitive.

 

[OnTheLine]

I'll be totally completely honest -- I see this type of stuff 100x more in the women's game than my men's matches. Obviously my scope is limited to just my region thus far that I've played in, but your post adds to the fire. It's why I don't play mixed at all, constant drama and I've had female partners so lazy to get to a ball they'd prefer just call it out.
For me personally, if my opponent's shot is even within an inch of a line, it's in. I play it. I'm out there to play tennis, sweat, get fresh air, and just enjoy the sport. It's a shame that some players resort to lying, deception, and cheating to win a friggin' USTA match.

This doesn't surprise me. I have played league soccer on adult teams in both women's and mixed leagues. I would say the same thing there. (Majority of those matches are non-officiated) If you want to get viciously hit with a slide-tackle at knee level ... play women's soccer as an adult. In the mixed league you would see that order was kept on the field.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I'll be totally completely honest -- I see this type of stuff 100x more in the women's game than my men's matches. Obviously my scope is limited to just my region thus far that I've played in, but your post adds to the fire. It's why I don't play mixed at all, constant drama and I've had female partners so lazy to get to a ball they'd prefer just call it out.
For me personally, if my opponent's shot is even within an inch of a line, it's in. I play it. I'm out there to play tennis, sweat, get fresh air, and just enjoy the sport. It's a shame that some players resort to lying, deception, and cheating to win a friggin' USTA match.

I've had matches in mixed where every time I aced the woman down the T, I got an out call. Women don't like being aced. One woman was so bad I had to gently remind her that lines are "in" in tennis.

 

[chrisingrassia]

I've had matches in mixed where every time I aced the woman down the T, I got an out call. Women don't like being aced. One woman was so bad I had to gently remind her that lines are "in" in tennis.

Can't say I've ever needed to win so bad that I needed to ace a female. Kind of a d!ck move, bruh
I just put tons of extra spin instead of blasting it by anyone.

Back to the OP though, can't call a hindrance after-the-fact if it doesn't affect the shot immediately.

 

[OnTheLine]

Can't say I've ever needed to win so bad that I needed to ace a female. Kind of a d!ck move, bruh
.

I guess I don't think this is a problem ... if you are playing mixed, as a female learn how to return any serve or get off the court. JMHO

 

[chrisingrassia]

I guess I don't think this is a problem ... if you are playing mixed, as a female learn how to return any serve or get off the court. JMHO

I'm not on the court to hit aces, I want to play tennis. Not sure what a 4.0/4.5 guy has to prove hitting aces against a 4.0/4.5 lady.

I think it's one thing to have some bad calls in like a 6-1,6-2 blowout; but at 7-6(12-10); 5-7; 1-0 (14-12), all that match took was a couple chipped calls and that was it. Truly unfortunate. I say in the future just aim for them directly.

 

[OnTheLine]

I think it's one thing to have some bad calls in like a 6-1,6-2 blowout; but at 7-6(12-10); 5-7; 1-0 (14-12), all that match took was a couple chipped calls and that was it. Truly unfortunate. I say in the future just aim for them directly.

It was a tough match. I am still licking my wounds and its been a couple days. But I know myself, if I tap anger, really wacky things happen on the tennis court, none of them effective!

 

[GrassCourtFan]

Hitting aces is part of playing tennis.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Can't say I've ever needed to win so bad that I needed to ace a female. Kind of a d!ck move, bruh
I just put tons of extra spin instead of blasting it by anyone.

I don't see what's wrong with trying to ace one's opponent, gender notwithstanding.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I'm not on the court to hit aces, I want to play tennis.

I don't understand this philosophy: if I had a good serve, why wouldn't I use it? If I had a good FH, why wouldn't I use it? If I have a great OH, why wouldn't I use it?

I want to play tennis also. That doesn't mean I want to drag every point out because I want to avoid hitting winners, though.


[QUOTE}
Not sure what a 4.0/4.5 guy has to prove hitting aces against a 4.0/4.5 lady.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't read it as @OnTheLine having something to prove; I read it as both teams are presumably trying to win and hitting good serves is part of that strategy and if some of those serves happen to be aces, even better. The 4.0 lady is presumably not some shrinking violet that needs protection. It's not like you're smashing OHs from 10' away straight at her [or him; I would have the same caveat regardless of gender].

 

[Dartagnan64]

Can't say I've ever needed to win so bad that I needed to ace a female. Kind of a d!ck move, bruh
I just put tons of extra spin instead of blasting it by anyone.

Back to the OP though, can't call a hindrance after-the-fact if it doesn't affect the shot immediately.

My serve isn't hard enough to "blast" by anyone. I get aces on women by placement. Hit out wide until they move out there then hit down the T.

 

[bobbything]

I'm lucky to get one ace per match. I'll take them wherever I can get them; regardless of gender.

If you're playing mixed in a USTA event, I see no problem with going for your serve against the female. It's part of the game. Plus, I doubt most women enjoy being patronized on the court. They're out there to compete.

 

[OrangePower]

As others have said, you can talk when the ball is coming towards you, but not once you have hit it and it's heading to your opponents.
Even if you do talk when the ball is heading towards them, they should only call a hindrance in good faith i.e. if your talking did in fact impact them. And if so, the hindrance call needs to be made immediately.

It was a tough match. I am still licking my wounds and its been a couple days. But I know myself, if I tap anger, really wacky things happen on the tennis court, none of them effective!

Hey, if you played the top team in the league that close then you have nothing to be ashamed of (other than maybe playing at too low a level ). Congrats!

 

[OnTheLine]

@OrangePower thanks for the pep talk ... in general partner and I played lights out that night. I know I made some shots that aren't normally in my arsenal!

I know we could have beaten them even with the bad calls in the early part of the match. I keep replaying some lame shots from our side (both mine and partner's) and thinking "what if" .... time to let it go, have the final districts match tonight ... singles, yikes!

 

[Startzel]

Can't say I've ever needed to win so bad that I needed to ace a female. Kind of a d!ck move, bruh
I just put tons of extra spin instead of blasting it by anyone.

Back to the OP though, can't call a hindrance after-the-fact if it doesn't affect the shot immediately.

What's the difference between acing or putting spin on a ball she can't handle?

Either way you're preventing a point from being played.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

@OrangePower thanks for the pep talk ... in general partner and I played lights out that night. I know I made some shots that aren't normally in my arsenal!

Actually, the shots ARE in your arsenal, as evidenced by the fact that you made them. But that merely means you have to practice them more as opposed to having to acquire them.

Great match; win or lose, you're a stronger player because it was such a severe test.

I know we could have beaten them even with the bad calls in the early part of the match. I keep replaying some lame shots from our side (both mine and partner's) and thinking "what if" .... time to let it go, have the final districts match tonight ... singles, yikes!

Yeah, we all tend to hold on to the past, to our detriment. Good players have short memories.

 

[chrisingrassia]

What's the difference between acing or putting spin on a ball she can't handle?

Either way you're preventing a point from being played.

I would answer that question with a question -- what's the difference between a 4.0/4.5 male and a 4.0/4.5 female? Would be unrealistic to expect sportsmanship and similar capability asking Simona Halep to return a Raonic/Karlovic serve.

You realize this is kind of the point of mixed doubles, right? This is why it's a thing?
I digress. Back to the OP everyone!

 

[OnTheLine]

I would answer that question with a question -- what's the difference between a 4.0/4.5 male and a 4.0/4.5 female? Would be unrealistic to expect sportsmanship asking Simona Halep to return a Raonic/Karlovic serve.

well, in watching some pro level mixed, it doesn't seem like those men are taking anything off their serves ... but at that level, it is not about glory and sportsmanship, it is about glory and money!

 

[Startzel]

I would answer that question with a question -- what's the difference between a 4.0/4.5 male and a 4.0/4.5 female? Would be unrealistic to expect sportsmanship and similar capability asking Simona Halep to return a Raonic/Karlovic serve.

You realize this is kind of the point of mixed doubles, right? This is why it's a thing?
I digress. Back to the OP everyone!

This isn't a legitimate response to my question.

You're failing to understand that you intentionally hitting a shot a woman can't handle is much more unsportsmanlike than hitting a shot she can't reach. Women are generally understanding when someone just is too good for them. It's rather insulting when a guy makes them look bad in the process.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I would answer that question with a question -- what's the difference between a 4.0/4.5 male and a 4.0/4.5 female? Would be unrealistic to expect sportsmanship and similar capability asking Simona Halep to return a Raonic/Karlovic serve.

You realize this is kind of the point of mixed doubles, right? This is why it's a thing?
I digress. Back to the OP everyone!

Personally I think about the only thing semi-off limits in mixed is the the 110 mph body serve. That's just mean. Fortunately my 60 mph flat serve doesn't qualify.

I was watching the open mixed semi finals at our club championships last night and the boys weren't holding back anything and the girls were handling it just fine. But these are 5.0 level players that know what they are doing. One woman was particularly adept at blasting returns back off some pretty hard serves.

 

[Startzel]

Personally I think about the only thing semi-off limits in mixed is the the 110 mph body serve. That's just mean. Fortunately my 60 mph flat serve doesn't qualify.

I was watching the open mixed semi finals at our club championships last night and the boys weren't holding back anything and the girls were handling it just fine. But these are 5.0 level players that know what they are doing. One woman was particularly adept at blasting returns back off some pretty hard serves.

Yeah it really isn't that big of a deal at that level. The problem is in the USTA events where you have a 4.0 guy and a 3.0 girl. That's far too big of a gulf in talent.

 

[bobbything]

It's rather insulting when a guy makes them look bad in the process.

It's more insulting to patronize them on the court. So long as you're all on the same level (ie: 9.0 mixed = a 4.5 guy/girl + 4.5 guy/girl, or 4.0 guy/girl + 5.0 guy/girl) then there should be absolutely no problem in just playing your game. I've played females who can return my serve better than a lot of guys I play. I'm not about to dumb it down simply because a woman, who has voluntarily joined a league where 4.5/5.0 guys are playing, cannot handle one of my shots. If that's the case, they should play down. I wouldn't dumb it down because a guy couldn't handle my serve (or any shot for that matter).

Now, if it's purely a social thing, where you're maybe paired up against someone (male or female) who cannot handle your shots, that's the time for "customer tennis." It's happened to me where I've been paired up with/against a player (again, male and female) who might be the weakest player on the court by a large margin. This has happened in social tennis events at my club. That's when you dial it down.

It's all about recognizing the situation you're in. If you're playing a competitive USTA mixed match, play your game. Everyone signed up for the same thing. If you're playing socially with people who are a level or two lower, then use your discretion. There's a time and place for everything.

 

[rh310]

Fortunately, as you go higher in ability, this occurs less and less.

...right up until you start playing in college.

 

[TennisCJC]

1) Your partner can speak while the ball is heading toward you
2) If they are going to call a hindrance, they have to do so immediately
3) Under no circumstances do you get to call a hindrance after a point has ended

I believe these are the official rules as stated above.

The code of conduct does allow for you to warn your partner if you throw up a short ball if you do it in a reasonable way. If you hit a short lob, and say short in a normal tone of voice, the code allows this even though the ball is moving toward your opponents. If you hit a short lob, and loudly yell "WATCH OUT THEY ARE GOING TO SMASH YOU!!!!!", your opponent can simply call a hindrance BEFORE they hit the ball and take the point.

 

[kylebarendrick]

I believe these are the official rules as stated above.

The code of conduct does allow for you to warn your partner if you throw up a short ball if you do it in a reasonable way. If you hit a short lob, and say short in a normal tone of voice, the code allows this even though the ball is moving toward your opponents. If you hit a short lob, and loudly yell "WATCH OUT THEY ARE GOING TO SMASH YOU!!!!!", your opponent can simply call a hindrance BEFORE they hit the ball and take the point.

I don't disagree, nor would most reasonable players. The only problem is that the sole judge of "reasonable way" vs. "hindrance" is your opponent. If they believe they are hindered by your warning, even though it was softly whispered milliseconds after you hit the ball, then they can stop playing and claim the point. The safest thing in my mind is not to say anything when the ball is heading toward your opponents.

 

[chrisb]

Maybe they drove up in a Mercedes. This is obviously over generalization. But watching juniors play, some of the worst behaviors and line calls in order to win come from affluent players. They probably got that from a win-at-all-cost attitude to get them to their socio-economic status. Losing is not an option. No matter the venue. And when they do lose, they look for any possible outlet to blame rather than they were beat.

Sorry about the rank. My son is starting to run up to players that have unfair line calls and even have creative score keeping and will argue to no end they are right.

disputed scores go to the net and go from last point agreed on. Your son must call score right after each point. The rules say no call means in. Out must be called at the bounce. If all else fails hit short bring the kid in and hit his slimy azz

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Calling "bounce" during a point is exceedingly common. It's unlikely that your opponent had never experienced that before.

 

[edathompson2]

I think changing your game during a competitive USTA match is demeaning to women. Just my personal opinion but if a women or a man apologized for hitting at me or acing me during a USTA match, that would be insulting.

I don't see them as women. I see them as tennis players. They deserve my respect. The way I deliver that respect is to treat them like a challenging opponent that I must find a way to beat. They deserve nothing less.

Social and fun matches are different.