Can a 4.5 Male and 4.0 Female play Mixed Together in an 8.0 League?

[mhj202]

Can a player bumped from a 4.0 Early Start to a 4.5 Year-End continue to play as a 4?

More specifically, if a male was a 4.0 based on the Early Start rating (so was eligible to play mixed doubles with his 4.0 partner when the mixed league strated) but then was bumped up to 4.5 based on the recently released Year-end ratings, is he still eligible to continue to play 8.0 Mixed with a 4.0 female partner in the existing 8.0 league season?

 

[McLovin]

If the league is a 2014 league, then "yes". If it is a 2015 league, then the answer is "it depends on the district/section".

According to some posts here in recent weeks, some give you a few days, some give you a week, and some stop you in your tracks. You have to check w/ your district/section.

 

[J_R_B]

More specifically, if a male was a 4.0 based on the Early Start rating (so was eligible to play mixed doubles with his 4.0 partner when the mixed league strated) but then was bumped up to 4.5 based on the recently released Year-end ratings, is he still eligible to continue to play 8.0 Mixed with a 4.0 female partner in the existing 8.0 league season?

In Middle States, yes. I am facing this exact issue, I was bumped to 4.5 in early start and my captain on my 8.0 team wants me to play with a 3.5 lady this weekend, but she was bumped to 4.0 in year-end yesterday. The captain confirmed that she is eligible to continue to play under her 3.5 early start rating for this team and we are OK for this weekend. I believe this rule differs by section.

 

[mhj202]

In Middle States, yes. I am facing this exact issue, I was bumped to 4.5 in early start and my captain on my 8.0 team wants me to play with a 3.5 lady this weekend, but she was bumped to 4.0 in year-end yesterday. The captain confirmed that she is eligible to continue to play under her 3.5 early start rating for this team and we are OK for this weekend. I believe this rule differs by section.

It looks like in the Eastern section, the following rule applies:

2.05B3(b) Players who are found to have valid computer ratings, after the appeal process, that place them above the NTRP level at which they are competing may continue their participation at the lower NTRP level UNLESS their year-end rating reached the clearly above level mark (emphasis added). If it did, they must adjust to that new NTRP level. Prior team matches played are valid.

WHAT DOES "THE CLEARLY ABOVE LEVEL MARK" mean?

 

[BMRSNR27]

It looks like in the Eastern section, the following rule applies:

2.05B3(b) Players who are found to have valid computer ratings, after the appeal process, that place them above the NTRP level at which they are competing may continue their participation at the lower NTRP level UNLESS their year-end rating reached the clearly above level mark (emphasis added). If it did, they must adjust to that new NTRP level. Prior team matches played are valid.

WHAT DOES "THE CLEARLY ABOVE LEVEL MARK" mean?

It's the level at which someone would be DQ'd.

 

[racertempo]

I have never heard of that mark either. NC has a 1 point difference rule that is a state specific thing that SC does not have, not sure about others. Locally we have a 3.5 woman and 5.0 guy who play 9.0 mixed together. I pointed this out to a tournament official and they DQ'd them. I was not trying to get them DQ but was just inquiring about the rule....she said the tennislink registration system cannot take the state rule into effect and people can sign up like they did....but for NC it is not allowed in league or tournament.

 

[mhj202]

It's the level at which someone would be DQ'd.

Thanks. That makes sense but if that's the standard, then it seems that it would never come into play, would it? If their year-end rating reached the level where they would have been DQ'd, wouldn't they have already been DQ'd before year-end?

 

[J_R_B]

Thanks. That makes sense but if that's the standard, then it seems that it would never come into play, would it? If their year-end rating reached the level where they would have been DQ'd, wouldn't they have already been DQ'd before year-end?

Not if they were C or B rated. Computer rated players can't be DQ'd, but I guess if their rating hits a level where they would be DQ'd if they were self-rated, then they lose the early start rating. It's kind of hard to imagine a situation where a player isn't bumped in early start but then reaches a "clearly above level" rating by year-end. If they were that far above the level as of year end, it's overwhelmingly likely they would have been at least at the bump threshold by the time ES was published.

 

[mhj202]

Not if they were C or B rated. Computer rated players can't be DQ'd, but I guess if their rating hits a level where they would be DQ'd if they were self-rated, then they lose the early start rating. It's kind of hard to imagine a situation where a player isn't bumped in early start but then reaches a "clearly above level" rating by year-end. If they were that far above the level as of year end, it's overwhelmingly likely they would have been at least at the bump threshold by the time ES was published.

True. Thanks!

 

[g4driver]

I have never heard of that mark either. NC has a 1 point difference rule that is a state specific thing that SC does not have, not sure about others. Locally we have a 3.5 woman and 5.0 guy who play 9.0 mixed together. I pointed this out to a tournament official and they DQ'd them. I was not trying to get them DQ but was just inquiring about the rule....she said the tennislink registration system cannot take the state rule into effect and people can sign up like they did....but for NC it is not allowed in league or tournament.

SC has a 1.0 max limit in mixed for mixed leagues.

http://www.southcarolina.usta.com/adult_seniors/league_rules__regulations/

Click on the Link 2014 Mixed Doubles Regulations

2.01A(4) The NTRP difference between members of an individual mixed doubles team may not exceed 1.0

 

[BMRSNR27]

Not if they were C or B rated. Computer rated players can't be DQ'd, but I guess if their rating hits a level where they would be DQ'd if they were self-rated, then they lose the early start rating. It's kind of hard to imagine a situation where a player isn't bumped in early start but then reaches a "clearly above level" rating by year-end. If they were that far above the level as of year end, it's overwhelmingly likely they would have been at least at the bump threshold by the time ES was published.

The DQ comes into play if they reach the threshold in the '15 season. They are treated like an "A" player for those early start leagues and if they pass the threshold (and maybe get three strikes - though I'm not sure) they can be DQ'd from that early start team.

Not all sections do it this way, though we're trying to get ours to. This is one of the rules I think they need to standardize across the country.

 

[J_R_B]

The DQ comes into play if they reach the threshold in the '15 season. They are treated like an "A" player for those early start leagues and if they pass the threshold (and maybe get three strikes - though I'm not sure) they can be DQ'd from that early start team.

Not all sections do it this way, though we're trying to get ours to. This is one of the rules I think they need to standardize across the country.

I don't think they're DQ'd in the same sense of matches overturned, etc. I think they just can't play at the ES level on the team anymore. I mean, why would they deserve to be DQ'd for registering at a level that the computer told them they had to register? That would really suck. S-rated players on mixed teams who are actually DQ'd have their match results overturned just like any other 3-strike DQ.

 

[JLyon]

SC has a 1.0 max limit in mixed for mixed leagues.

http://www.southcarolina.usta.com/adult_seniors/league_rules__regulations/

Click on the Link 2014 Mixed Doubles Regulations

2.01A(4) The NTRP difference between members of an individual mixed doubles team may not exceed 1.0

1.0 MAX LIMIT is a national rule not a Section or District rule

 

[g4driver]

1.0 MAX LIMIT is a national rule not a Section or District rule

JLyon, my comment was posted with racertempo's post quoted. He made a specific comment about SC. I know it a National Rule in mixed leagues, but since he was specific about SC, I was specific in my reply, with the SC Regulation.

My guess is he was referring to SC tournaments. Maybe SC allows more than a 1.0 difference in mixed tournaments. I only play 7.0 or 8.0 with either a 3.0 or 4.0, so that's never been a issue for me.

NC has a 1 point difference rule that is a state specific thing that SC does not have, not sure about others.

 

[racertempo]

1.0 MAX LIMIT is a national rule not a Section or District rule

JLyon, my comment was posted with racertempo's post quoted. He made a specific comment about SC. I know it a National Rule in mixed leagues, but since he was specific about SC, I was specific in my reply, with the SC Regulation.

My guess is he was referring to SC tournaments. Maybe SC allows more than a 1.0 difference in mixed tournaments. I only play 7.0 or 8.0 with either a 3.0 or 4.0, so that's never been a issue for me.

Sorry, let me clarify what I learned from Combo....the 1 point rule is effective for Combo as well, but NOT for combo in SC. My doubles partner played a 7.5 team there where a 4.5 played with a 3.0 guy.......they had 2-3 pairs like that and they went to SC states a couple years ago in Hilton Head. You cannot do this in NC, but SC it is okay.

So maybe the national rule is for mixed....but since only the Southern States do Combo maybe it is up to the states to decide.

 

[g4driver]

No worries Racertempo-

Does SC allow 1.5 or 2.0 differences in mixed Tournaments ? That seems whacked out also.


The lack of standard rules even with one Section is whacky IMO.
It seems vastly unfair to NC to restrict them at Sectionals from using a 1.5 difference Combo team and also whacky to tell a SC team that their team of players can't use the 1.5 difference at Sectionals. It would be much nicer with one Standard for Combo in the same Section. There isn't a National Combo, so a Section Standard would at least make things even for Combo.

 

[racertempo]

No worries Racertempo-

Does SC allow 1.5 or 2.0 differences in mixed Tournaments ? That seems whacked out also.


The lack of standard rules even with one Section is whacky IMO.
It seems vastly unfair to NC to restrict them at Sectionals from using a 1.5 difference Combo team and also whacky to tell a SC team that their team of players can't use the 1.5 difference at Sectionals. It would be much nicer with one Standard for Combo in the same Section. There isn't a National Combo, so a Section Standard would at least make things even for Combo.

Not sure about tournaments....I am sure they don't but I was assuming that it was a state specific thing since NC had the rule for combo and SC did not.....but I totally forgot that combo was a regional thing only.

 

[kelkat]

I am new to the NorCal section and was wondering if anyone knows of the point differential allowed in the Combo leagues here. In NJ, it was only .5 point, at least in mixed.... a 4.5 could not play with a 3.5, and so on. Thanks.

 

[J_R_B]

I am new to the NorCal section and was wondering if anyone knows of the point differential allowed in the Combo leagues here. In NJ, it was only .5 point, at least in mixed.... a 4.5 could not play with a 3.5, and so on. Thanks.

Where in NJ? All of the NJ leagues I've seen have had 4.5 with 3.5 in 8.0 and 5.0 with 4.0 in 9.0, etc. That's in the Middle States part of NJ, not Eastern.

 

[Nostradamus]

More specifically, if a male was a 4.0 based on the Early Start rating (so was eligible to play mixed doubles with his 4.0 partner when the mixed league strated) but then was bumped up to 4.5 based on the recently released Year-end ratings, is he still eligible to continue to play 8.0 Mixed with a 4.0 female partner in the existing 8.0 league season?

4.0 + 4.5 = 9.5 So NO. it is against usta rules..

 

[J_R_B]

4.0 + 4.5 = 9.5 So NO. it is against usta rules..

Incorrect on many levels. First, 4.0+4.5 = 8.5.

Second, it is up to the section how to handle YE bumps in ES leagues. In Middle States, you are allowed to continue playing under your ES rating, which in this case was 4.0, not 4.5. Therefore, here at least, it is OK to keep playing.

 

[beernutz]

4.0 + 4.5 = 9.5 So NO. it is against usta rules..

Classic Fedace. Quoted for hilarity.

 

[wrxinsc]

4.0 + 4.5 = 9.5 So NO. it is against usta rules..

 

[Fuzzy]

I believe the answer is the same as it would be for a men's or women's league.

Yes, but not in the playoffs.

 

[kelkat]

J_R_B, it was Eastern Div.

 

[kelkat]

Oops sorry, I goofed J_R_B. I was thinking of a different scenario.
Yes, you could have a 1pt dif in Eastern. I need more coffee this afternoon :/

 

[woodrow1029]

4.0 + 4.5 = 9.5

I just had to quote this again, because it is just too funny. Thanks for the laugh Fedace!

 

[dlk]

More specifically, if a male was a 4.0 based on the Early Start rating (so was eligible to play mixed doubles with his 4.0 partner when the mixed league strated) but then was bumped up to 4.5 based on the recently released Year-end ratings, is he still eligible to continue to play 8.0 Mixed with a 4.0 female partner in the existing 8.0 league season?

It's your conscience

 

[mhj202]

It's your conscience

Wow - you are totally clueless.

First, it wasn't me but I actually played against a couple different mixed teams that were 8.5 in a 8.0 league- and many posters in this thread have explained how that could happen.

Second, there's no conscience issue at all- again, as many folks in this thread have pointed out how that occurs within the allowed rules.