Can Alcaraz still be an ATG if he does NOT beat Djokovic in UsOpen 2025 SemiFinal?

TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
There is so much hype on Alcaraz and many people already annoint him as an ATG and apparently his peak level is the HIGHEST ever.

If a 38 year old Novak beats Alcaraz on Friday, it perhaps means that Alcaraz isn't good enough. At least compared to Fed/Nadal/Novak/Sampras etc.

How can you be an ATG when you couldn't beat 38 year old past his prime aging champion? What would a peak Novak do to Alcaraz at the UsOpen?

The time for Alcaraz to step it up is NOW. No excuses. He is at his PEAK. His rival is aging and the surface favors Carlos as well. A loss would be a big setback for Carlitos and his hype train.
 
TennisFan3 said:
There is so much hype on Alcaraz and many people already annoint him as an ATG and apparently his peak level is the HIGHEST ever.

If a 38 year old Novak beats Alcaraz on Friday, it perhaps means that Alcaraz isn't good enough. At least compared to Fed/Nadal/Novak/Sampras etc.

How can you be an ATG when you couldn't beat 38 year old past his prime aging champion? What would a peak Novak do to Alcaraz at the UsOpen?

The time for Alcaraz to step it up is NOW. No excuses. He is at his PEAK. His rival is aging and the surface favors Carlos as well. A loss would be a big setback for Carlitos and his hype train.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is silly. One match doesn't represent a whole career. Even 38-year old Djokovic is more formidable than, say, David Goffin, who Alcaraz lost to earlier this year. Much worse #135 Steve Darcis beat Nadal at Wimbledon in 2013, one of Nadal's best year's on tour. That doesn't mean Nadal is no longer an ATG.
 
djoker won far less than fedal at the beginning, it wont affect the acheivement of carlos in future
i dont see the logic of OP
 
Alcaraz is not an all-time great yet, but he is clearly on an ATG trajectory. When he gets there, the status will be irrevocable, regardless of any future losses. Therefore, losses along the way don't count either. Whether the standard is six slam titles, or four slam titles + 100 weeks at no. 1, or three slam titles + 1 year-end no. 1 + two OG, no one ever argues that you then must subtract status points for any losses that someone thinks were unworthy or humiliating. It simply doesn't work that way.
 
The poster Djokovicis#1 hit the nail in the head regarding this subject in a previous post. He stated you get judged more harshly with your record against your main peers and rivals than prior generations. For example, Andy Roddick has a positive h2h against Djokovic, Sampras, Moya, Chang, Ferrero, and Krajicek, but people will always remember that he was 3-21 against Federer his main rival who denied him many slams.

Alcaraz has a positive h2h against Sinner who we can safely assume will be his main rival for years to come. Nonetheless, I agree that he is expected to win this match and if he does it will give him a 3-2 edge in h2h slams against Djokovic which will help erase some of the sting of the Olympics and AO losses.
 
Of course he can, but it would lessen the importance/impressiveness of his current haul. Going 3-6 against an older Djokovic within the same time in which he won 5 Majors is a bad look.

Alas, I think he’s winning it without much stress. :/ Djokovic doesn’t have a lot of big-match juice left. Hope I’m wrong.
 
Last edited:
What happened in 2023 was already pretty damn bad for me.

AO25 basically sealed the deal.

This really wouldn't change much in my eyes. But it further reinforce the fraudulent theory behind this tour.
 
Can someone be an ATG (a term commonly used for players starting with around 5 or 6 Slams) if he loses one specific match against someone who is 4 times that player?

If the answer is "No", then how could the answer still be "Yes" after let's say a loss to Botic van de Zandschulp?

I think that should give away the only possible answer.

There would have been no ATG ever if a comparable loss would be the end of that claim. But in reality, no loss at all could ever do that. It's about WINS and TITLES.
 
Alcaraz already is an all-time great, plus Djokovic doesn't have the ability to beat Alcaraz anymore.
Djokovic only beat Alcaraz in the past because Alcaraz's 2nd Serve was predictable and lacked variety.
This is what happens when you are 22, you improve.
 
ALCARAZWON said:
Alcaraz already is an all-time great, plus Djokovic doesn't have the ability to beat Alcaraz anymore.
Djokovic only beat Alcaraz in the past because Alcaraz's 2nd Serve was predictable and lacked variety.
This is what happens when you are 22, you improve.
Click to expand...

What if he does beat him?

Although I do agree that Alcaraz should win the match.
 
Does this mean that Federer isn’t an ATG either? When he was at his peak, he got steamrolled at the FO by one-hip washed-up Kuerten.

Alcaraz getting owned by the 38-year-old hard court GOAT on Friday might simply be an example of why Alcaraz isn’t YET an ATG on hard courts. But I won’t write Alcaraz off on hard courts at the age of 22. That sounds ludicrous to me.

As another poster said, it’s all about wins and titles. Once you get a bunch of both, then nobody can take anything away from you.
 
ALCARAZWON said:
Alcaraz already is an all-time great, plus Djokovic doesn't have the ability to beat Alcaraz anymore.
Djokovic only beat Alcaraz in the past because Alcaraz's 2nd Serve was predictable and lacked variety.
This is what happens when you are 22, you improve.
Click to expand...
If he wins it will also be down to Novak being nowhere near the player he was, this is what happens when you are 38, you decline!
 
Best of 3 sets is
inyourface said:
Federer defeated Djokovic at the age of 38, in the ATP Finals in London 2019.....
Click to expand...
Not the same as best of 5. Between 2013 and 2020 Roger played Novak 6 times in a slam over both hard courts and grass and Novak won every one.

During same period they met 16 times in best of 3 sets (mostly hard courts) and Novak was only 9-7 ahead.

Shows you that best of 5 is so much tougher to win against elite players.
 
TennisFan3 said:
There is so much hype on Alcaraz and many people already annoint him as an ATG and apparently his peak level is the HIGHEST ever.

If a 38 year old Novak beats Alcaraz on Friday, it perhaps means that Alcaraz isn't good enough. At least compared to Fed/Nadal/Novak/Sampras etc.

How can you be an ATG when you couldn't beat 38 year old past his prime aging champion? What would a peak Novak do to Alcaraz at the UsOpen?

The time for Alcaraz to step it up is NOW. No excuses. He is at his PEAK. His rival is aging and the surface favors Carlos as well. A loss would be a big setback for Carlitos and his hype train.
Click to expand...
I think it depends. If Djokovic wins (he won't lol and it's going to be ugly) but lost to Sinner in the final then question marks will be asked about Alcaraz for sure. If Djokovic won the whole thing then it just confirms the Big 3 were on another planet in any sport as bear in mind Federer and Nadal at their peaks owned Djokovic at the Slams in their 20s.

But I think in all honesty Friday will be the day Djokovics legacy is questioned. No excuses as you say for either player. If Djokovic loses he would have a losing record at the biggest events to Sinner Alcaraz and Nadal and also Federer when Federer was in his 20s. I'm not sure that's the resume of a GOAT wannabee.
 
TennisFan3 said:
There is so much hype on Alcaraz and many people already annoint him as an ATG and apparently his peak level is the HIGHEST ever.

If a 38 year old Novak beats Alcaraz on Friday, it perhaps means that Alcaraz isn't good enough. At least compared to Fed/Nadal/Novak/Sampras etc.

How can you be an ATG when you couldn't beat 38 year old past his prime aging champion? What would a peak Novak do to Alcaraz at the UsOpen?

The time for Alcaraz to step it up is NOW. No excuses. He is at his PEAK. His rival is aging and the surface favors Carlos as well. A loss would be a big setback for Carlitos and his hype train.
Click to expand...
Alcaraz losing to Novak will be like Lendl losing to Connors at the 1982 and 1983 US Opens which I do think taints his reputation
 
messiahrobins said:
I think it depends. If Djokovic wins (he won't lol and it's going to be ugly) but lost to Sinner in the final then question marks will be asked about Alcaraz for sure. If Djokovic won the whole thing then it just confirms the Big 3 were on another planet in any sport as bear in mind Federer and Nadal at their peaks owned Djokovic at the Slams in their 20s.

But I think in all honesty Friday will be the day Djokovics legacy is questioned. No excuses as you say for either player. If Djokovic loses he would have a losing record at the biggest events to Sinner Alcaraz and Nadal and also Federer when Federer was in his 20s. I'm not sure that's the resume of a GOAT wannabee.
Click to expand...
How are you so sure that Novak legacy is being anyway effected by loss to alcaraz or Sinner.
Losing to player who is 16 year younger and 14 year younger is not out of the sylabus.
 
I don't think it will alter Carlos's quest to be an ATG as much as it will solidify Novak's status of goatness that he was able to beat someone of Carlos's caliber even at 38
 
socallefty said:
So if Djokovic had lost one of the Championship points against Federer at Wimbledon in 2019, he would not be an ATG by the OP’s logic.:unsure:
Click to expand...

Djokovic was younger than Federer but not 16 years younger.

Nonetheless, even if Djokovic wins in straights, Alcaraz can and will be an ATG.
 
socallefty said:
So if Djokovic had lost one of the Championship points against Federer at Wimbledon in 2019, he would not be an ATG by the OP’s logic.
Click to expand...
Yeh, success is a very thin line. Right now, Djokovic is not accepted as the GOAT by vast majority of Fedal fans! If Federer had converted in 2019, I'd accept him as best WB champion.
 
He is only 21 and isn't near his peak, and already is past previous ATG in tennis.
This is just another match early in his career.

Djo in a final would be lost ratings anyways.

Everyone wants another Sinner V Alcaraz banger. That is where the eyeballs and money is.
 
TennisFan3 said:
There is so much hype on Alcaraz and many people already annoint him as an ATG and apparently his peak level is the HIGHEST ever.

If a 38 year old Novak beats Alcaraz on Friday, it perhaps means that Alcaraz isn't good enough. At least compared to Fed/Nadal/Novak/Sampras etc.

How can you be an ATG when you couldn't beat 38 year old past his prime aging champion? What would a peak Novak do to Alcaraz at the UsOpen?

The time for Alcaraz to step it up is NOW. No excuses. He is at his PEAK. His rival is aging and the surface favors Carlos as well. A loss would be a big setback for Carlitos and his hype train.
Click to expand...
He should definitely beat Djokovic now but to early for ATG
 
FedRafNovFan said:
He is already an ATG at 22 lmao plenty of tennis for him

Carlos in 3 but I also wanna see Djoko get 25 before retiring
Click to expand...
Carlito is not yet ATG, he is on good way to it, but he is missing one more Grand Slam title! ;)
The threshold for entry into the ATG category is 6 Grand Slam titles.
 
There is nothing different between this and the AO match in terms of significance to their career

If you think it's a permanent black mark on his status then you think he already got the mark at the AO (especially as Djokovic got injured). If you don't then you have already shown you don't at the AO

Pointless question
 
to be very clear here

  • Alcaraz is the reigning Cincy champion and former US Open champion
  • Alcaraz has won 44 of his last 47 matches, including winning 3 M1000s, a slam, and a title on every surface in that timeframe
  • Alcaraz hasn’t dropped a set coming into this match
  • Alcaraz has allowed (not lost) 8 BPs in total in this entire tournament so far (0 in the last match), versus gaining 60 BPs of his own.
  • Alcaraz has only been broken once all tournament
  • Alcaraz is leading the race for number 1 by 2340 points

If Alcaraz, in this form, now loses against a 38 year old Djokovic who is clearly nowhere near his best…. he will rightly be endlessly memed for this in future

I don’t care what his achievements are, I don’t care how many hard court slams he wins once Djoker hangs it up - the narrative will be that he already failed to put Djoker away when Djoker was injured and then he lost to him again when he was in the form of his life. If in 5 years he’s sweeping USOs and AOs aplenty, people will always say “well, he’s just winning them because Djoker is done”.

He can still be an ATG though. Just not THE ATG.

 
Last edited:
He could be an atg but he will never be the goat because of his 3-5 h2h against Djokovic.

If Alcaraz loses against Djokovic again on Friday, it just exposes how much of a Fraud he is.

There is absolutely no excuse for an atg to lose to someone who is 16 years older than them, especially when Djokovic is dealing with injuries and is clearly not at his best.
 
Last edited:
Every ATG without exception has losses way worse than against a 24 slammer even if aged 38. Of course GOAT would be a little problematic because even if Raz beats Djoko's slamcount in some distant future it would be tough to argue him being greater if even geriatric Djoko beat him constantly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

TennisFan3
  • Poll Poll
If Alcaraz does NOT win RG 2023 will he still become an ATG?
Replies
38
Views
2K
TennisFan3
TennisFan3
W
Alcaraz is actually not an ATG but a TTG
2 3 4
Replies
168
Views
8K
NeutralFan
NeutralFan
W
Andre Agassi shows Carlos Alcaraz how to be an ATG potential
2
Replies
53
Views
3K
CoolCoolCool
CoolCoolCool
Sport
  • Poll Poll
Nadal vs. Alcaraz. Who possesses a superior peak on hard courts?
2 3 4
Replies
183
Views
6K
iuyhii
I
Razer
  • Poll Poll
25th Slam will be a miracle come true for Djokovic, how will he get past Sinner and Alcaraz ?
2
Replies
55
Views
2K
_phantom
_phantom
Back
Top