Can ATP and ITF stop constant slowing down of surfaces?

Should all courts be restored to the their levels from past to create variety??

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 69.2%
  • No

    Votes: 10 25.6%
  • Can't say/Confused

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • Total voters
    39
#1
Almost every single big tournament, including Slams, Masters, WTF, some 500s are consistantly being slowed down every year at the rate of around 2.5 to 3.5 CPI per year. Even the clay courts are being slowed down (wtf!!??)
And also, I am not going to roll back years in 90s and early 2000s(best years of tennis courts' variety). Just giving you examples of 3-5 years of difference
Yes I know that AO sped up their courts in 2017, but then they also had started slowing down them (42 vs 39 CPI in 2018)
IW seemed fast due to thin air, but nowadays it has been slowed down to the limits (maybe larry will slow down it further for rafa ofc) and seems mud.. 27 was cpi in 2017 and maybe its 24 in 2018 (30 in 2016)
Same is the story of Miami. Both sunshine double are actually playing like clay almost..
Monte carlo being the slowest of all, but still the trend of -3 cpi/year going on and now one can actually hit a ball, drink water and then come back to hit it again..
Even the arguably faster clay courts of Rome and Madrid arent spared.. in terms of CPI, they are lower than MC but conditions make them **faster**
RG, the slowest slam is also going more and more snaily year per year (compare 2015 and 2018)
Wimbledon is already blamed for slowing down grass to clay depth, and still treand is going on. (Again, compare 2014 and 2017) Cincinnati and Canadian masters have been slowed down to the limits that their category shifted from medium-fast to medium (maybe enter slow in 2020) (again, see 2013 vs 2017)

Oh and how can I forget the US open?? Once the fastest slam, is now going in the same direction of mud like courts and -3 cpi/year (compare 2013 vs 2017).... And thus being the least prestigious slam
Shanghai, being the fastest of all masters is also following this useless trend of -3 cpi/year or 2 almost)
Paris masters, leave it...... Won't even talk about it...
Indoors of Basel, Paris, London, Rotterdam which must be fast are actually medium to slow-medium nowadays.....

Are ATP and ITF willing to put an end to agressive, shotmaking, viewable, likeable, multi-dimensional tennis similar to that of roger, rafa(at some extent he's watchable and shotmaker too), shaps(nextgen) and just want to have grinding, pushing, grunting, 1-dimensional tennis of djoker, rafa(he is a grinder too), murray, zverev, thiem, etc.....??????? This slow-down poison will kill tennis. If you want long rallies, they should be shotmaking and winner hitting oriented ones, and not the pushing-UFE oriented ones....

Any fans, please don't take it personal, its true

And also, I am not against slow courts, they should be there for variety. I am against the slowing down of courts


Mixture of Slow, medium slow, medium, medium-fast, fast surfaces throghout the span of a season is the thing which is needed the most...
 
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#3
And also, I am not against slow courts, they should be there for variety. I am against the slowing down of courts
I think this is the key - variety. Encouraging enough variation in the surfaces so that players with different skills can thrive somewhere.

On the other hand, I think we can idealise the past a bit. I remember when some matches at Wimbledon turned into serving contests and everyone was moaning that "there are no rallies anymore". So Wimbledon was under some pressure to change things up a bit.
 
#4
And despite this certain player complains that"it is getting faster and faster today" implying that the court speed is too fast despite the truth being the opposite.The speed of the courts have been slowed down since years.I mean after few years US Open could be as slow as clay
 
#5
I'd rather have some short rallies and intelligent shot-making, rather than seeing mindless grinding from the baseline like Thiem or Zverev. This is the worst clay season I've ever seen. Always love watching these types of people get weeded out early on in the grass season, with the odd one slipping through. Unfortunately, nobody wants a generation of Opelkas, either. Older players of today win on the fast surfaces because of point construction and variety (Federer, Muller, Karlovic), whereas others get by with raw power (Milos is a good example).
Fast courts aren't viable for younger players, because no one actually has variety -- is due to things beyond the slowing of courts, and most significantly racquet technology.
Sad, sad state, really. I'd hate to see some of these younger players in the coming years play on quicker courts.
 
#8
"Slow" means that spectators get better return on what they've paid for. Moreover, the networks that cover tournaments and the gamblers get more opportunities as well. Personally, I enjoy longer rallies and matches, but I feel that anything over 2-3 hours is too much and unnecessary. How the slower surface or balls affect the beauty of the sport, results and overall rankings may be interesting to have a look at.
 
#9
I'd rather have some short rallies and intelligent shot-making, rather than seeing mindless grinding from the baseline like Thiem or Zverev. This is the worst clay season I've ever seen. Always love watching these types of people get weeded out early on in the grass season, with the odd one slipping through. Unfortunately, nobody wants a generation of Opelkas, either. Older players of today win on the fast surfaces because of point construction and variety (Federer, Muller, Karlovic), whereas others get by with raw power (Milos is a good example).
Fast courts aren't viable for younger players, because no one actually has variety -- is due to things beyond the slowing of courts, and most significantly racquet technology.
Sad, sad state, really. I'd hate to see some of these younger players in the coming years play on quicker courts.
It is due to the ultra slowing down and grindfest, that the coaches and teen players were encouraged to play like this, one-dimensional game...
If shotmaking and all-court game would have been supported, then scenario would be different..
Instead, organizers supported sh*tmaking and see the young generation (exceptional case - denis shapovalov).....

As I always say, we just can not assume the bizzare state of tennis after the retirements of roger federer and rafael nadal (we have already seen the glimpses in 2016)
 
#10
"Slow" means that spectators get better return on what they've paid for. Moreover, the networks that cover tournaments and the gamblers get more opportunities as well. Personally, I enjoy longer rallies and matches, but I feel that anything over 2-3 hours is too much and unnecessary. How the slower surface or balls affect the beauty of the sport, results and overall rankings may be interesting to have a look at.
Do you really think that, today's grindfest tennis with *beauty* of slow surface and balls, is giving more return to the spectators than the shotmaking tennis?????
99% of spectators will prefer fedal 16 shots rally other than *long and return giving* 64 shots rally of thiemerev....
 
#12
And despite this certain player complains that"it is getting faster and faster today" implying that the court speed is too fast despite the truth being the opposite.The speed of the courts have been slowed down since years.I mean after few years US Open could be as slow as clay
The certain player has complained: "I think the surface is a little bit too slow," he said. "Everything is already slowing down..." (14 Jan 2008)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...r-Federer-singing-the-blues-in-Melbourne.html
 
#15
I'd rather have some short rallies and intelligent shot-making, rather than seeing mindless grinding from the baseline like Thiem or Zverev. ....
You haven't lived mindless grinding if you haven't sat through Borg-Vilas or Solomon-Dibbs and wood raquets. I used to enjoy it myself for the most part but it wasn't everyone's cup of tea despite the distortion of nostalgia. Try to get into the zen of it. Maybe some libations would help.
 
#22
Do you really think that, today's grindfest tennis with *beauty* of slow surface and balls, is giving more return to the spectators than the shotmaking tennis?????
99% of spectators will prefer fedal 16 shots rally other than *long and return giving* 64 shots rally of thiemerev....
So, you think people wanna pay through their noses for an hour of flying balls? Don't you think players benefit in sponsorship/prize money somewhere down the road, since longer matches/opportunities to show what the athletes've got may come are on display? Needless to say that all those venues where tournaments are held benefit from visitors who stay longer too.

I know I know faster tennis may be more exciting and challenging too. I myself instruct my son to play it fast, hit hard rather than high and stay away from longer rallies. Yet, I'd like to see him one day getting something in return for what he's done in the sport (which is a really loooooong shot now).
 
#26
So, you think people wanna pay through their noses for an hour of flying balls? Don't you think players benefit in sponsorship/prize money somewhere down the road, since longer matches/opportunities to show what the athletes've got may come are on display? Needless to say that all those venues where tournaments are held benefit from visitors who stay longer too.

I know I know faster tennis may be more exciting and challenging too. I myself instruct my son to play it fast, hit hard rather than high and stay away from longer rallies. Yet, I'd like to see him one day getting something in return for what he's done in the sport (which is a really loooooong shot now).
Tennis is not wrestling/running or any type of physical-only sport. Its a well mixture of athleticism, IQ, shotmaking, mental game, attitude etc...........

No servefest
No grindfest

If servefest is bad, grindfest is also bad...
Long rallies should not be boring and just concentrated towards forcing an error from opponent. These rallies should be shotmaking and players should aim for winners rather than errors of opponents. This can make tennis more watchable and exciting. Remember my last sentence of the thread.... Variety is needed. And for variety, right now there is need of reversing the slowdown.
For all these, the slowdown should be reversed in following orders

AO medium (36-38 cpi)
IW slow-medium (30-31 cpi)
Miami Slow medium (32-33 cpi)
MonteCarlo slow (27-29 cpi)
Madrid slow (25-28 cpi)
Rome slow (25-28 cpi)
RG slow (26-28 cpi)
Wimbledon fast medium (40-42 cpi)
Canada fast medium (41-43 cpi)
Cincinnati fast medium (41-43 cpi)
USO fast (45-47 cpi)
Shanghai fast (47-49 cpi)
Paris medium (35-37 cpi)
WTF fast medium (42-44 cpi)
 
#34
I think this is the key - variety. Encouraging enough variation in the surfaces so that players with different skills can thrive somewhere.

On the other hand, I think we can idealise the past a bit. I remember when some matches at Wimbledon turned into serving contests and everyone was moaning that "there are no rallies anymore". So Wimbledon was under some pressure to change things up a bit.
I think they jumped the gun, they made a knee jerk reaction to the rackets, strings quickly caught up to the rackets and negated some of the raw power. Now there are too many rallies, and the balls have too much spin on the grass. By the end its destroyed...
 
#36
Almost every single big tournament, including Slams, Masters, WTF, some 500s are consistantly being slowed down every year at the rate of around 2.5 to 3.5 CPI per year. Even the clay courts are being slowed down (wtf!!??)
And also, I am not going to roll back years in 90s and early 2000s(best years of tennis courts' variety). Just giving you examples of 3-5 years of difference
Yes I know that AO sped up their courts in 2017, but then they also had started slowing down them (42 vs 39 CPI in 2018)
IW seemed fast due to thin air, but nowadays it has been slowed down to the limits (maybe larry will slow down it further for rafa ofc) and seems mud.. 27 was cpi in 2017 and maybe its 24 in 2018 (30 in 2016)
Same is the story of Miami. Both sunshine double are actually playing like clay almost..
Monte carlo being the slowest of all, but still the trend of -3 cpi/year going on and now one can actually hit a ball, drink water and then come back to hit it again..
Even the arguably faster clay courts of Rome and Madrid arent spared.. in terms of CPI, they are lower than MC but conditions make them **faster**
RG, the slowest slam is also going more and more snaily year per year (compare 2015 and 2018)
Wimbledon is already blamed for slowing down grass to clay depth, and still treand is going on. (Again, compare 2014 and 2017) Cincinnati and Canadian masters have been slowed down to the limits that their category shifted from medium-fast to medium (maybe enter slow in 2020) (again, see 2013 vs 2017)

Oh and how can I forget the US open?? Once the fastest slam, is now going in the same direction of mud like courts and -3 cpi/year (compare 2013 vs 2017).... And thus being the least prestigious slam
Shanghai, being the fastest of all masters is also following this useless trend of -3 cpi/year or 2 almost)
Paris masters, leave it...... Won't even talk about it...
Indoors of Basel, Paris, London, Rotterdam which must be fast are actually medium to slow-medium nowadays.....

Are ATP and ITF willing to put an end to agressive, shotmaking, viewable, likeable, multi-dimensional tennis similar to that of roger, rafa(at some extent he's watchable and shotmaker too), shaps(nextgen) and just want to have grinding, pushing, grunting, 1-dimensional tennis of djoker, rafa(he is a grinder too), murray, zverev, thiem, etc.....??????? This slow-down poison will kill tennis. If you want long rallies, they should be shotmaking and winner hitting oriented ones, and not the pushing-UFE oriented ones....

Any fans, please don't take it personal, its true

And also, I am not against slow courts, they should be there for variety. I am against the slowing down of courts


Mixture of Slow, medium slow, medium, medium-fast, fast surfaces throghout the span of a season is the thing which is needed the most...
I voted no, because I am against players specialization, I like more all around players.
It's fine the surfaces are different, but no so different they may resemble different sports being played.
 
#37
Do you really think that, today's grindfest tennis with *beauty* of slow surface and balls, is giving more return to the spectators than the shotmaking tennis?????
99% of spectators will prefer fedal 16 shots rally other than *long and return giving* 64 shots rally of thiemerev....
Agree. I wonder if that poster has ever spent any time at the practice courts of an ATP event. The players are so good that long rallies are standard WHEN they’re not trying to hit winners. And the slowed down surfaces - don’t get the reward for the risk - encourages mindless safe rallies.

As others have said; some variety is fine. But other than Cincy and Shanghai (and that really center court only - the outer courts are incredibly gritty) - hard courts were slowed down too much.
 
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#39
Half of the top 10s are 6'6'' or taller.

How fast do you want the game to be?
 
#41
I voted no, because I am against players specialization, I like more all around players.
It's fine the surfaces are different, but no so different they may resemble different sports being played.
So you prefer one dimensional, passive, always behind the baseline, UFE oriented, grindfest game over the multi-dimensional, aggressive, all-court, winner oriented, shotmaking game???
Hats off to you sir
 
#42
So you prefer one dimensional, passive, always behind the baseline, UFE oriented, grindfest game over the multi-dimensional, aggressive, all-court, winner oriented, shotmaking game???
Hats off to you sir
When I’m recreating my nightmares, I’m thinking about servebots, the Isner/Karlovic type. The Roscoe Tanner archetype of That ‘70s show really, sir. The Krajicek of the ‘90s, the horror. The Not Point Construction. The One Trick Ponies.
 
#43
@octobrina10

Octo, the courts are being slowed down to benefit certain players who thrive in slower conditions (and suck in fast ones) and Bernardes was banned for correctly enforcing a rule on Rafa. These are two facts you can't wiggle out of by poasting irrelevant quotes from half a century ago and calling out Federer fans for real or imagined sins. Sorry.

To the OP: once Rafa, Andy and the rest of the pushers, sorry, grinders, sorry, brilliant defenders retire we may have a chance. I am not bating my breath, though. There is still Carreno-Busta's scintillating carreer to be taken care of. We can't afford to make the game too exciting, no?
 
#44
@octobrina10

Octo, the courts are being slowed down to benefit certain players who thrive in slower conditions (and suck in fast ones) and Bernardes was banned for correctly enforcing a rule on Rafa. These are two facts you can't wiggle out of by poasting irrelevant quotes from half a century ago and calling out Federer fans for real or imagined sins. Sorry.

To the OP: once Rafa, Andy and the rest of the pushers, sorry, grinders, sorry, brilliant defenders retire we may have a chance. I am not bating my breath, though. There is still Carreno-Busta's scintillating carreer to be taken care of. We can't afford to make the game too exciting, no?
Schwartzman objects.
 
#47
To which of the above? Speeding up courts? He'll manage, he's a good player. Clay should be slow (but not too heavy and slow), hard should be medium-to-fast and grass should be fast but not ridiculously fast (that should be reserved for some indoor courts). What is the point of having different surfaces otherwise.
100% agreed with you
 
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