Can Djokovic become the greatest HC player of all time?

[mike danny]

Currently Federer is still the best HC player of all time with 6 WTF titles and 9 HC slams.

Djokovic has 4 WTF titles and 6 HC slams.

Both have 17 masters titles on HC.

Can Djokovic surpass Federer and become the greatest HC player of all time?

 

[RalphJ]

Does anyone care?

 

[Man of steel]

He needs way more Us opens to pass federer. Just winning at AO ain't gonna cut it.

 

[mike danny]

Does anyone care?

Why not? We are at a point where Djokovic deserves to be talked about in this manner.

 

[mike danny]

He needs way more Us opens to pass federer. Just winning at AO ain't gonna cut it.

I think 2 more USO titles should do it.

 

[Tennisanity]

Federer did it in an era of greater competition, so I doubt it.

 

[RalphJ]

I know a lot of people are talking about the Kyrgios & Stan incident. But let's talk about Donna Venkic. She's a upcoming young tennis player who has been compared to Sharapova. Same thing goes for Bouchard when she first came on tour. With the case of Bouchard, she's made two WTA finals & winning 1. She made two semis of grand slams, and one final. She's 177-104 in her career not counting this season's record. Donna on the other hand made two WTA finals, won 1 and is 117-76 in her career. Bouchard is about two years older then her, and they are both the same height. Obviously we can't say much about Donna b/c she's only 19 right now, but she might have better potential then Bouchard later on in her career. What do you guys think?

I was wondering why are these two being compared other than Vecic is having a brief moment in the news.

Then I remembered this:

Next time can you please not abbreviate her name like that, look carefully at the abbreviation.

Why not? We are at a point where Djokovic deserves to be talked about in this manner.

We only care about making fun of Kyrgios. Djokovic's only shining moments are when he is verbally abusing ball girls,

 

[dgold44]

No way!! He is only 1-4 at the US open finals.

Sampras and Federer each won 5 US opens.

Djoker needs to win at least 2 more to be considered.

 

[Man of steel]

I think 2 more USO titles should do it.

Depends on how many AO's he continues to win.
If he ends up with 9 HC majors and has 3 Us opens and 6 AO's i'd still rank federer slighly above.
5 straight Us opens ain't nothing to sneeze at. Plus djoko will most likely be less balanced. 5 and 4 will look better than any ratio djoko has unless he gets close to his AO title count with the US open.

 

[Inanimate_object]

People, the question isn't IS he, but CAN HE BECOME the best HC player.

 

[mike danny]

Depends on how many AO's he continues to win.
If he ends up with 9 HC majors and has 3 Us opens and 6 AO's i'd still rank federer slighly above.
5 straight Us opens ain't nothing to sneeze at. Plus djoko will most likely be less balanced. 5 and 4 will look better than any ratio djoko has unless he gets close to his AO title count with the US open.

Probably being the AO GOAT should be in his favor. Federer has been a monster at the USO, but he is not the official USO GOAT.

 

[mattosgrant]

Yes I think it is possible. I think if he reaches 9 hard court grand slams (which would be winning 3 more) most of the other stats would end up favoring him by that point. We know he would have more slam finals with all those U.S Open final defeats. Probably more semis. Probably more Masters by that point. Probably equal or higher WTFs. So with both at 9 he would probably have the edge, and he certainly can win another 3 to atleast reach 9, if not beyond.

The thing that is key for me though is he must have atleast 3 U.S Opens for some balance, particularly if he only has 9.

 

[RalphJ]

Yes, he can! So let's talk it to death, so these Djokovic's fans can each hump that big Djokovic poster they have at home. Djokovic is on top with no one to challenge him. So what? He's a plain, individual tennis player, with nothing special outside of tennis. These guys are nothing without tennis fame.

 

[mattosgrant]

His U.S Open final record right now also looks really bad. I know when you break down each loss it wouldnt be as bad as it seems, but still the hard court GOAT should not be 1-4 in U.S Open finals. He needs to resolve that and I think he will.

Then again Federer is 5-5 in Australian Open semis, which isnt great, especialy as a semi final is theoretically much easier to win than a final.

 

[happy-for-that]

Can Djokovic ever be as good as Rafa at the US Open? No.

 

[mike danny]

His U.S Open final record right now also looks really bad. I know when you break down each loss it wouldnt be as bad as it seems, but still the hard court GOAT should not be 1-4 in U.S Open finals. He needs to resolve that and I think he will.

Then again Federer is 5-5 in Australian Open semis, which isnt great, especialy as a semi final is theoretically much easier to win than a final.

Hey if Djokovic had a 4-4 record in USO finals, it would still be better than 1-4. Fed's record is still 5-5 in AO semis not 1-5.

 

[mattosgrant]

True 1-4 in finals is the worse of those two. 5-5 in semis isnt great for someone like Federer either though, and the semi final is on average supposed to be easier competition than the final, so I am factoring that in.

This makes me think of Gabriela Sabatinin who is 3-15 in slam semis, and managed 1 slam title out of 18 semis, LOL! I laugh at the Serena haters who laud Graf's supreme competition when I think of that.

 

[dgold44]

I think this US open to Djoker is pretty good !!!
That would make him a multiple US Champ
So his last goal is the French. He has 3 good years left

 

[mike danny]

True 1-4 in finals is the worse of those two. 5-5 in semis isnt great for someone like Federer either though, and the semi final is on average supposed to be easier competition than the final, so I am factoring that in.

This makes me think of Gabriela Sabatinin who is 3-15 in slam semis, and managed 1 slam title out of 18 semis, LOL! I laugh at the Serena haters who laud Graf's supreme competition when I think of that.

It depends. I don't necessarily agree the SF has easier competition than the final. For instance: 2013 FO SF was obviously harder than the final, 2008 USO SF was harder than the final etc.

Also at the 2011 AO SF Fed got Djokovic in the semis. Obviously it was the much harder match for him than the Murray final would have been.

Also Hewitt got Federer in the W 2005 and USO 2005 semis. For him both semis were his hardest matches because he got the best player in the world in both.

 

[Russeljones]

56 consecutive matches won on hard courts say 'No'.
111–2 on hard courts between Feb 2005 and Feb 2007 say '**** No!'.

 

[mattosgrant]

I said on average the semi final has easier competition than the final. There are exceptions of course. The way it is supposed to be is the final is supposed to be the 2 people playing the best, while the semi final losers are supposed to be the people playing the 3rd and 4th best. If you lose in the semi you in theory werent even 1 of the 2 playing the best. There are exceptions.

Djokovic for instance is 5-3 in U.S Open semis vs 1-4 in finals. Federer though is 5-5 in Australian Open semis and 4-1 in finals. Djokovic is 5-0 in Australian Open finals. In fact I dont recall him losing a semi, so is 5-0 there. He is 5-3 in quarterfinals.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

No, he's lost too many slam finals.

 

[RalphJ]

People consider players the greatest when they have demonstrated an above average respectable character as well (in regard to tennis). Not below average. Will he possibly become the winningest? Maybe. Will he be the greatest? No. Djokovic has some glaring flaws. He's like Ilie Nastase, he could win, but at times was extremely unpleasant. Just as Kyrgios is becoming. But I know you Djokovic leg-humpers don't want to hear that, so carry on with your make-believe delusional play time, where it's only positive things all the time.

 

[mike danny]

I said on average the semi final has easier competition than the final. There are exceptions of course. The way it is supposed to be is the final is supposed to be the 2 people playing the best, while the semi final losers are supposed to be the people playing the 3rd and 4th best. If you lose in the semi you in theory werent even 1 of the 2 playing the best. There are exceptions.

Djokovic for instance is 5-3 in U.S Open semis vs 1-4 in finals. Federer though is 5-5 in Australian Open semis and 4-1 in finals. Djokovic is 5-0 in Australian Open finals. In fact I dont recall him losing a semi, so is 5-0 there. He is 5-3 in quarterfinals.

He didn't lose a semi because he lost in the QF in those years. Federer shouldn't be penalized for going one better.

 

[mike danny]

56 consecutive matches won on hard courts say 'No'.
111–2 on hard courts between Feb 2005 and Feb 2007 say '**** No!'.

Also Fed has another streak in his favor. He had a 40 match winning streak in HC slams at one point. Between the start of 2005 USO untill the 2008 AO SF he didn't lose a single match in a HC slam. That't quite impressive.

 

[mike danny]

Also another thing in Fed's favor is that he is the only player in the history of the Open Era to win a HC slam 5 times in a row.

 

[Steve0904]

I voted no. Thinking about it, I could've voted yes, but he has to win at least a couple USO's from here on out and obviously at least a couple YEC's. Federer's dominance at both majors and not just one is a big point in his favour here IMO. Even if Djokovic has a distribution of 7-2 for example, I wouldn't rate that above 4-5. 6-3 and I'd start to think about it. Obviously this assumes they end up tied and that Djokovic doesn't win 10 or 11 HC majors. That's just my opinion.

I guess I voted no because I'm sticking my neck out a bit here and predicting that Djokovic doesn't go on some kind of tear at the USO from this point forward. I think Novak will win the USO this year tbh, but the way he's struggled at the end of the 2 weeks there overall in his career, I don't think he'll win a 3rd. He can obviously, but his domination won't go on forever.

 

[Noelan]

Yes, he can! So let's talk it to death, so these Djokovic's fans can each hump that big Djokovic poster they have at home. Djokovic is on top with no one to challenge him. So what? He's a plain, individual tennis player, with nothing special outside of tennis. These guys are nothing without tennis fame.

It seems that your're one with Novak poster at home who regularly hupms on it, but since you've some serious issues with anxiety , you just can't deal with your desire properly. There is the place where you can resolve those issues, you know

At this point Novaks carieer does't seem to be close to the end, so we'll 'see where he'll end up with HC titles. I just don't like to speculate that much.
As his long time admirerer and follower of his carieer from junior days, I can say I just enjoy his tennis immensely, especially atm , every new win is just a bonus as each of angry and envious outbursts from the likes of you and many posters here.

 

[mike danny]

It seems that your're one with Novak poster at home who regularly hupms on it, but since you've some serious issues with anxiety , you just can't deal with your desire properly. There is the place where you can resolve those issues, you know

At this point Novaks carieer does't seem close to the end, so we'll 'see where he'll end up with HC titles. I just don't like to speculate that much.
As his long time admirerer and follower of his carieer from junior days, I can say I just enjoy his tennis immensely, especially atm , every new win is just a bonus as each of angry and envious outbursts from the likes of you and many posters here.

Not necessarily. This is the time you have to hope Novak wins a lot because this is the time in which he builds his legacy.

"Every victory is a bonus from now on" hasn't arrived yet for Novak. He still has to achieve a bit more.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Can he? No, and that's fine. Why are people on here so obsessed about being the greatest in a certain department anyway? Why isn't being one of the greatest, which Djokovic is, seen as good enough? I never understood that.

 

[Noelan]

That's my general wiew on life as it's for sport Ofc I'm hoping for him to achieve even more than he already did, but until he does it ...
I just don't have urge to speculate with some uncertain numbers for the sake of some meaningless argues at forums like this.
And @mike danny I also don't have problem with your speculations. Just it's not my cup of tea.

 

[mike danny]

That's my general wiew on life as it's for sport Ofc I'm hoping for him to achieve even more than he already did, but until he does it ...
I just don't have urge to speculate with some uncertain numbers for the sake of some meaningless argues at forums like this.

Meaningless discussions represent the main purpose of this forum.

 

[Noelan]

Yeah, you're right

 

[Sysyphus]

Fed has 13 HC slams, arguably 15. Novak has 6.

So no.

 

[mattosgrant]

Fed has 13 HC slams, arguably 15.

?!?!? Federer has exactly 9 hard court slams.

 

[Sysyphus]

?!?!? Federer has exactly 9 hard court slams.

Clearly you are mistaken. Do you not know what time of year it is?

If not, take a quick trip through GPP and immerse yourself in the sureshian vortex.

 

[uscwang]

I would replace "the greatest" or "the best" with the "most accomplished".
Yes, I think Novak has a chance to become the most accomplished HC player since the beginning of HC tennis (when was that?).
As of now, Fed is by far the most accomplished HC player; Rafa clay.
Who on grass? Fed or Laver?

 

[mattosgrant]

Grass is hard to say since there used to be alot more grass play than today.

 

[mattosgrant]

Most accomplished on grass is probably Tilden though.

 

[Russeljones]

Clearly you are mistaken. Do you not know what time of year it is?

If not, take a quick trip through GPP and immerse yourself in the sureshian vortex.

He doesn't know.

 

[The_18th_Slam]

Yeah, if he wins 3 more Hardcourt Slams, he'd probably have a very good case for it. A lot will also depend on his WTF results.

 

[HipRotation]

The US Open hole is a difficult one to overlook because of it's historical place in the history of the game. Djokovic is a product of this era of the tour where all 4 have equal standings and are mandatory.Some people use the lack of Wimbledon success in some players careers to downplay their other achievements like Lendl and Wilander, could we really use the same logic on Djokovic's HC court legacy, to only win the most prestigious HC tournament once? I think he needs to win it at least three times to be in contention, the lack of success there and at The Real Slam™ betray some sort of deficient to his HC game.

 

[RalphJ]

Wrong, Djokovic will need to win each of the HC tournaments 4 times each. USO, AO, Cincinnatti, Montreal, London, Indian Wells, Miami, Dubai, Shanghai and at least one more will solidify him as the best HC player of all time. And that is worth something, believe me.

The only concession would be to win them all in one year and not give up more than 3 games in a set.

Otherwise, he will never be considered as good as Nadal and Federer.

 

[Steve0904]

Can he? No, and that's fine. Why are people on here so obsessed about being the greatest in a certain department anyway? Why isn't being one of the greatest, which Djokovic is, seen as good enough? I never understood that.

Because it's a discussion forum. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm just saying, don't take it personal.

 

[tennisaddict]

Djokovic has the highest win-loss % on HC amongst all tennis players. If he gets 9 majors, he can lay a claim, as long as 3 of them are USO

 

[LETitBE]

no,sorry weak field.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Needs more USO, AO isn't going to cut it.

Also needs to do this.
I'm past thinking raw numbers make you the best by default.

 

[Pagoo]

Can can can can, if, if, if, if.

Seriously, let's wait and see. Gosh!

 

[Supertegwyn]

Can he?
Yes.

Will he?
Probably not.

Does it matter?
Definitely not.

 

[Gazelle]

1 PUNY US Open.

(Connors, Sampras, Federer = 5)