Can Djokovic win FO this year ?

OhYes

Legend
FO doesn't exist anymore. From now on this indoor tournament is called the Djokovic Open. He not only can, he is pretty much a lock to win it now. The organizers are his fans and did everything to make sure he wins it. Roof, schedule, new balls, new court, everything is perfect for him now.

But how exactly will it make him the GOAT? Just because he is going to win a tournament where the organizers already did everything to help him win it? Sorry, no.
Heil organizers - fans of player that nobody likes. :rolleyes:

One more thing. Many people here said that he would never win it before 2016 came, especially mocking him in 2015, and that he can't beat Nadal on clay or in RG, and that Murray sucks, and that 2016 is highlight of weakest era ever...
All I can see is someone being really butthurt, but that is your problem to deal with, not mine.
 

Sport

Legend
The best player of last 2 decades, I would say (since he's likely to finish 6th YE#1)
Not with less Majors than both of his biggest rivals Nadal and Federer, especially when the Slam record was the obsession of the Big 3 and media in his era, and when Slams are the most relevant tournaments. He will be the best player of the last 2 decades once he wins at least 20 Majors, not 18.
 
Last edited:

jackdaw

Rookie
No
Nadal is the only man who can win RG this year and the next, and probably the next after that too ....
I can't understand how anyone can seriously think Nadal won't be RG champion this year.
 

Hitman

Hall of Fame
Maybe in your imagination. So Nadal with 12 RG titles, who has won the last 3 RG in a row and is the current defending champion is only 10% more favorite than a Djokovic with only 1 RG title who has never defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal? And Djokovic is 10% more favorite than Thiem despite the fact that Thiem is 6 years younger than Djokovic and has had better results at RG than Djokovic since 2017?
What were thoughts back in RG 2015, in regards to their percentage relative to each other, when Nadal had won the last five RG titles and Djokovic hadn't won any and of course had never defeated Nadal in any match there?
 

Sport

Legend
What were thoughts back in RG 2015, in regards to their percentage relative to each other, when Nadal had won the last five RG titles and Djokovic hadn't won any and of course had never defeated Nadal in any match there?
I stopped following tennis in 2015 cause Nadal was playing so awful for his standards. He was outside the top 4 before RG. If Nadal starts this RG outside the top 4, I may reconsider Rafa's absolute favoritism, but not based on cuarrent evidence.
 
Last edited:

Hitman

Hall of Fame
I stopped following tennis in 2015 cause Nadal was playing so awful for his standards He was outside the top 4 before RG.
So you stopped watching tennis that early, despite that Nadal had actually made it further into AO than Federer did that year? You didn't even wait for the clay season before you gave up on Nadal for that year?

This comment below in bold you made would have held true then also, and how did that end?

So Nadal with 12 RG titles, who has won the last 3 RG in a row and is the current defending champion is only 10% more favorite than a Djokovic with only 1 RG title who has never defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal?
 

Hitman

Hall of Fame
@Sport - I want to say that I agree with you about Nadal being the big favorite. I see it as Nadal, then a gap, then Thiem, then a gap, then Djokovic.

I just don't agree with the argument you used to explain it, because it is flawed.
 

Hitman

Hall of Fame
I think RG16 was good. After the injury and comeback, clay is over for Novak. He is too old. Couldn't do when he was young 2 times, can't do when old.
I think he can, but only if he gets the ideal draw and his opponent has gone through a very difficult path and is worn down by the time the final comes. He would have a chance then.

While it is far fetched to have him as the fav for the title, or can even be argued he shouldn't be second fav either, to say he has absolutely no chance is the other extreme. He has a chance, albeit a smaller one than years gone by.
 

ibbi

Legend
The answer is the same as it was in 2011 and 2012 and 2013 and 2014 and 2015 and 2016, and 2019. Yes, obviously. Just as in most of those years he may well go in as the favourite, and what happens then is probably dependent on the weather.
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
I think he can, but only if he gets the ideal draw and his opponent has gone through a very difficult path and is worn down by the time the final comes. He would have a chance then.

While it is far fetched to have him as the fav for the title, or can even be argued he shouldn't be second fav either, to say he has absolutely no chance is the other extreme. He has a chance, albeit a smaller one than years gone by.
He has just a little bit chance which won't happen. Honestly I am tired of Roland Garros happening every year.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
I stopped following tennis in 2015 cause Nadal was playing so awful for his standards. He was outside the top 4 before RG. If Nadal starts this RG outside the top 4, I may reconsider Rafa's absolute favoritism, but not based on cuarrent evidence.
So, you follow tennis only if Nadal is playing well ? You are more fan of the man himself rather than a tennis fan in this case.
 

Sport

Legend
So you stopped watching tennis that early, despite that Nadal had actually made it further into AO than Federer did that year? You didn't even wait for the clay season before you gave up on Nadal for that year?

This comment below in bold you made would have held true then also, and how did that end?

So Nadal with 12 RG titles, who has won the last 3 RG in a row and is the current defending champion is only 10% more favorite than a Djokovic with only 1 RG title who has never defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal?
Nadal was outside the top 4 in 2015. If Nadal is outside the top 4 before RG 2020, I am open to reconsider his ultra-favoritism. As of now, Nadal is in the top 2 and ultra-favorite. My argument is valid as long as Nadal is inside the top 4, and especially the top 2 of the ranking.
 
Last edited:

Hitman

Hall of Fame
Nadal was outside the top 4 in 2015. If Nadal is outside the top 4 before RG 2020, I am open to reconsider his ultra-favoritism. As of now, Nadal is in the top 2 and ultra-favorite. My argument is valid as long as Nadal is inside the top 4, and especially the top 2 the ranking.
You didn't make that statement before. You have only now modified it to include form. And form should always take priority, so good to see that all the points you made about Nadal winning 12 to Djokovic winning 1 and not lost a semi and final are only going to stand ground if Nadal is in decent form.
 

Sport

Legend
You didn't make that statement before. You have only now modified it to include form. And form should always take priority, so good to see that all the points you made about Nadal winning 12 to Djokovic winning 1 and not lost a semi and final are only going to stand ground if Nadal is in decent form.
OK, I make it now to be more precise.

Nadal is the ultra-favorite because he is in the top 2 in the ATP ranking and has won 12 RG titles, including the last 3 in a row.
 

Hitman

Hall of Fame
OK, I make it now to be more precise.

Nadal is the ultra-favorite because he is in the top 2 in the ATP ranking and has won 12 RG titles, including the last 3 in a row.
That is more sound, because now you are bringing form into it and I would agree with you.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
I stopped following tennis in 2015 cause Nadal was playing so awful for his standards. He was outside the top 4 before RG. If Nadal starts this RG outside the top 4, I may reconsider Rafa's absolute favoritism, but not based on cuarrent evidence.
So when Rafa retires, you will not watch tennis again? Can you develop a new favorite to root for?
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is the favourite. Then Thiem. Then Djokovic.

Djokovic has a chance, a big one if Thiem is in Nadals half.
Here's the big difference: Thiem can obviously beat Djokovic at the FO, he's already done that. But Thiem can't defeat Nadal there, he's not mentally solid enough. Djokovic can (and has) beaten Nadal on Chatrier. I don't care if 2015 Rafa was lousy, a win is a win.

Novak has to be really careful with his clay schedule. Play MC and Rome, skip Madrid to stay fresh for RG. He doesn't need three tournaments of grinding prior to the FO.
 

daddy

Legend
He can, can he ? Will he is the question ? The draw will be one of the more interesting things tennis world has seen lately cause I imagine if Thiem gets hold of Nadal in semis and it goes to 5 then the other finalist has at least a 2/3 chance to beat whoever comes on top of that one.
 

Spider

Hall of Fame
Here's the big difference: Thiem can obviously beat Djokovic at the FO, he's already done that. But Thiem can't defeat Nadal there, he's not mentally solid enough. Djokovic can (and has) beaten Nadal on Chatrier. I don't care if 2015 Rafa was lousy, a win is a win.

Novak has to be really careful with his clay schedule. Play MC and Rome, skip Madrid to stay fresh for RG. He doesn't need three tournaments of grinding prior to the FO.
I agree. hence I said you can never count him out.

He is more than capable of beating Nadal at RG.
 

Sport

Legend
I agree. hence I said you can never count him out.

He is more than capable of beating Nadal at RG.
Djokovic has never defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal. He hasn't proven to be capable to defeat Nadal in a RG final or semifinal. And unless Nadal magically gets out of the top 2 in the ranking, or unless Thiem defeats him in the semifinal, Djokovic will have to face Nadal in the final.
 

Sport

Legend
Here's the big difference: Thiem can obviously beat Djokovic at the FO, he's already done that. But Thiem can't defeat Nadal there, he's not mentally solid enough. Djokovic can (and has) beaten Nadal on Chatrier. I don't care if 2015 Rafa was lousy, a win is a win.

Novak has to be really careful with his clay schedule. Play MC and Rome, skip Madrid to stay fresh for RG. He doesn't need three tournaments of grinding prior to the FO.
Never has Djokovic defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal though. And he would have to face Nadal in the final, given that Nadal is ranked #2. If Nadal reaches the RG final, it will mean he is in good clay form.

And how is that you don't care 2015 Rafa was his worst version ever facing one of Novak's best versions? 2015 Djokovic facing 2015 Nadal at RG would be like 2017 Nadal facing early 2018 Djokovic at the AO, of course a very good version of Nadal like in 2017 would demolish the worst version of Djokovic like the early 2018 one. Nadal is not playing as bad as in 2015, forget about it.
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
Excellent comment. I agree with everything you salid with one minor exception, the part where you said Djokovic defeated Federer at WB or Thiem at the AO because they were tired. I think Djokovic won fair and square those matches. Federer gave no signs of fatigue in the WB 2019 final, in fact Djokovic looked even less fresh than Federer, and Thiem (despite having played more before the final) also gave no signs of fatigue in the AO 2020 final. None of them looked tired to me, Djokovic won because he was more clutch in the crucial moments. Credit where credit is due.
Agree

Thiem has the best chance for the FO, but I think Nadal is vulernerable this year.

That said, there is no GOAT status on the line with a FO win or loss.

- Djo moves closer with a win
- Fed moves further ahead with a win
- Nadal ties with a win

Thiem for the win tho!
Agree.

@SamprasisGOAT - can you please add a poll to the OP?
 

Spider

Hall of Fame
Djokovic has never defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal. He hasn't proven to be capable to defeat Nadal in a RG final or semifinal. And unless Nadal magically gets out of the top 2 in the ranking, or unless Thiem defeats him in the semifinal, Djokovic will have to face Nadal in the final.
I know but does that mean he is incapable? Djokovic is more than capable of beating Nadal as compared to the rest of the field. He did in 2015.

He can do it in a final. Ofcourse Nadal will be the favourite. It is a game of probabilities.
 

bro

New User
If Novak and Nadal reach the final, would some of the Federer fans root for Novak in order to save Feds record? We saw in Sydney at ATP cup how Nadal was annoyed that Novak for once had crowd support. Roof and crowd support on Novak side would be a huge advantage in the final. Novak also has the experience of beating Nadal on RG. He just needs to win 6 matches with crowd against him and reach the final. But if Thiem is in the final with Novak, it will be much harder.
 

Sport

Legend
I know but does that mean he is incapable? Djokovic is more than capable of beating Nadal as compared to the rest of the field. He did in 2015.

He can do it in a final. Ofcourse Nadal will be the favourite. It is a game of probabilities.
So is Nadal capable of defeating Djokovic in an AO final? Unless Djokovic is playing so bad, I think he is incapable. Analogously, unless Nadal is playing so bad for his standards, I think Djokovic is incapable to defeat him in a RG final.
 
Last edited:

Sport

Legend
But if Thiem is in the final with Novak, it will be much harder for Novak.
.
You are underrating Nadal at your cost. Are you saying that Nadal who is #2, has won 12 of 12 RG finals including the last 3 RG finals in a row would be easier than Thiem with 0 RG titles and who has lost all the RG finals he has participated in? Bad trolling. Djokovic has also been unable to defeat Nadal on clay since 2017, while he has defeated Thiem twice on clay since 2017.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I agree here with my friend Sport. On FO, Nadal with amputated leg playing with a saucepan is a more dangerous opponent than anyone else.
 

Tostao80

Rookie
If Novak and Nadal reach the final, would some of the Federer fans root for Novak in order to save Feds record? We saw in Sydney at ATP cup how Nadal was annoyed that Novak for once had crowd support. Roof and crowd support on Novak side would be a huge advantage in the final. Novak also has the experience of beating Nadal on RG. He just needs to win 6 matches with crowd against him and reach the final. But if Thiem is in the final with Novak, it will be much harder.
Is the last sentence serious?
 

bro

New User
Nadal was 5 time defending champion in the 2015 and still lost to Novak in straight sets. Only for Novak to lose in the final to Stan even though he took the first set. Novak knows how to play Rafa, they played 55 times. Novak loves the challenge of Rafa and brings his best game against him and can win no matter the surface.

What I meant was that the crowd (Fed fans) could be against Nadal in the final and that would make it somewhat easier for Novak compared to the final against 6 years younger Thiem and the complete crowd.
 

Hitman

Hall of Fame
Nadal was 5 time defending champion in the 2015 and still lost to Novak in straight sets. Only for Novak to lose in the final to Stan even though he took the first set. Novak knows how to play Rafa, they played 55 times. Novak loves the challenge of Rafa and brings his best game against him and can win no matter the surface.

What I meant was that the crowd (Fed fans) could be against Nadal in the final and that would make it somewhat easier for Novak compared to the final against 6 years younger Thiem and the complete crowd.
 

beard

Hall of Fame
So, you follow tennis only if Nadal is playing well ? You are more fan of the man himself rather than a tennis fan in this case.
Never has Djokovic defeated Nadal in a RG final or semifinal though. And he would have to face Nadal in the final, given that Nadal is ranked #2. If Nadal reaches the RG final, it will mean he is in good clay form.

And how is that you don't care 2015 Rafa was his worst version ever facing one of Novak's best versions? 2015 Djokovic facing 2015 Nadal at RG would be like 2017 Nadal facing early 2018 Djokovic at the AO, of course a very good version of Nadal like in 2017 would demolish the worst version of Djokovic like the early 2018 one. Nadal is not playing as bad as in 2015, forget about it.
Bold. So meaningless "argument". Nadal was never defeated in 4th round of RG before Soderling, was never defeated in QF before Novak..
There is always first time.... And if Novak get to final, it would mean he is in good form too, same as it stands for Nadal....

Anyway, Nadal is big favorite, as it stands of now.... Will see what happens till RG....
 
Top