Can I improve my tennis with bad technique?

mcs1970 said:
Why? If you can beat him you are at his level or above. If he is bothered by how your form is that’s on him. If you feel that having an ugly form means something more when you win , then you are just underrating yourself.

Btw That was not the point of this thread. Don’t feed curious the wrong info. Be blunt on what is holding him back from a 4.5. It’s not beautiful or ugly form that is doing that.
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The key is the bad form allows you to sneak up on people. If your technique is sound, your opponent will be more focused.
 
travlerajm said:
The key is the bad form allows you to sneak up on people. If your technique is sound, your opponent will be more focused.
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With your second sentence, you probably meant if your form is more conventional than the opponent might not underestimate you.

I think technique is sound either way. Else you are not taking a set off a guy like that.
 
Curious said:
This is the most relevant post in this thread and explains my point perfectly in a few sentences.
Anyway here’s the good news for you guys! I won’t be posting anymore until/if I can be pain free again and start playing competitive tennis. I don’t want tennis in my life if I can’t play it because of pain. It’s too depressing.
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Don't let ballmachineguy and zill get to you. :)

Your tennis is just fine, even good, for a person your age.

Your posting is part interesting, part confusing (like you ask if you have enough pace, placement. For sure! Definately enough for 3.0 players and ballmachine, yellow optic, zill and a few others.) but never depressing.
 
user92626 said:
Don't let ballmachineguy and zill get to you. :)

Your tennis is just fine, even good, for a person your age.

Your posting is part interesting, part confusing (like you ask if you have enough pace, placement. For sure! Definately enough for 3.0 players and ballmachine, yellow optic, zill and a few others.) but never depressing.
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I don’t take crap from people that can’t spell definitely.
 
Chat GPT:

Improving your tennis game with bad technique can be challenging, and it's generally not the most effective way to progress. Proper technique is a fundamental aspect of tennis, as it affects your accuracy, power, and consistency on the court. Bad technique can lead to a higher risk of injury and can limit your overall potential as a player. Here are a few reasons why improving your tennis with bad technique is difficult:

  1. Inconsistent results: Bad technique can lead to inconsistent shot placement and power, making it difficult to control the ball and play strategically.
  2. Limited shot variety: Poor technique may restrict your ability to hit different types of shots, such as topspin, slices, or volleys, effectively.
  3. Increased risk of injury: Bad technique can put extra stress on your body and increase the risk of tennis-related injuries, such as shoulder, elbow, or wrist problems.
  4. Difficulty advancing in skill levels: As you progress in tennis, you'll face opponents with better skills and techniques. If you rely on bad technique, it will become increasingly challenging to compete at higher levels.
To improve your tennis game, it's advisable to work on your technique with the guidance of a qualified coach or instructor. They can identify and correct your technical flaws, help you develop better habits, and provide personalized feedback. Practicing with proper technique will lead to more consistent and effective performance on the court.

That said, while correcting your technique is important, it's not the only aspect of tennis improvement. Physical fitness, mental strength, and match strategy are also crucial components to focus on when becoming a better tennis player. So, while it's not impossible to play and enjoy tennis with imperfect technique, if you're serious about improving, investing in better technique is highly recommended.
 
Technique is important but movement is just as important as well as watching the ball I mean really watching it. Then strive to hit the ball in your wheelhouse, somewhere between your shoulders and waist, then early preparation. If a player can do that he will improve and become a better player. Now, I’m not saying that’s easy but if a player can do that he can compensate for weaknesses in technique.
 
TennisDawg said:
Technique is important but movement is just as important as well as watching the ball I mean really watching it.
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Isn't the execution of particular movements considered a part of tennis technique? imo, it includes elements such as grip, body positioning, footwork, balance, timing, coordination, swing or stroke mechanics, and recovery. While it's certain that a small but vocal minority emphasize the importance of the swing alone in defining technique, there's a risk of missing the significance of the interconnected aspects in getting better at tennis.
 
Curious said:
I'm happy to use any technique that works.
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No such thing as perfect technique. Strive for excellence rather than perfection.

You might be able to produce somewhat decent results with technique that is flawed. But you will likely not attain the same high level that you would from better technique. Also, highly flawed technique will more likely result in an overuse injury than proper technique.
 
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TennisDawg said:
Thanks for the article. It’s worth reading
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That article doesn’t state what curious thinks it is stating. As the article states form is different from technique. curious amd trav are mixing up form with technique.

Without good technique you are not winning against good players.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
No such thing as perfect technique. Strive for excellence rather than perfection.

You might be able to produce somewhat decent results with technique that is flawed. But you will likely not attain the same high level that you would from better technique. Also, highly flawed technique will more likely result in an overuse injury that proper technique.
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While I agree with you fully, imo, there is different understanding of what technique is and priorization of various aspects. That's the reason for 95% of the traffic on some of these threads.
 
To be honest, I think you've overly conditioned yourself to focus on all kinds of nuance technique, and with variable success you would admit. That said, I don't think you would be able to deprogram that kind of hyper focus very easily, or to the contrary you might get too focused on NOT trying to do the technique too much. You just are very analytical and quieting those thoughts either way would be tough.
 
AnyPUG said:
Isn't the execution of particular movements considered a part of tennis technique? imo, it includes elements such as grip, body positioning, footwork, balance, timing, coordination, swing or stroke mechanics, and recovery. While it's certain that a small but vocal minority emphasize the importance of the swing alone in defining technique, there's a risk of missing the significance of the interconnected aspects in getting better at tennis.
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I should have been more clear. I meant just getting to the ball in time. Better anticipation so you’re not rushed, trying to get to the ball early enough so you hit in your wheel house.
 
The guy want to bail on correct technique and start all over again in search of a poor technique. That makes no sense. The guy is virtually doing one thing wrong on each wing(they are doozies though), and he wants to give up.
 
ballmachineguy said:
The guy want to bail on correct technique and start all over again in search of a poor technique. That makes no sense. The guy is virtually doing one thing wrong on each wing(they are doozies though), and he wants to give up.
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He thinks his focus on "correct technique" has held him back in terms of overall level. He is yet to realize that his focus on trivial things is the reason.
In a perverse way, the search for poor technique might help as he is likely to shed the incessant obsession on insignificant details.
 
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AnyPUG said:
He thinks his focus on "correct technique" has held him back in terms of overall level. He is yet to realize that his focus on trivial things is the reason.
In a perverse way, the search for poor technique might help as he is likely to shed the incessant obsession on insignificant details.
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Exactly. If he had focused more on bigger issues (like making sure his ball goes toward the intended target) he would already be 4.0 by now.
 
Well, Robin Soderling had fairly ugly strokes and was a top 10 player so it's possible to play high level with less than perfect technique.

For Curious:
1. Get over trying to have perfect modern wristy strokes. Instead work on having a stable wrist just before, during and just after contact. Let the core and specifically the shoulders drive the stroke. Think hit up and thru contact in a stroke and not a "whip".
2. Learn both a slice and topspin backhand. Lendl is a better model than most modern players as he had a very simple topspin and slice backhand with little to no wrist action.
3. Get a hitting partner and drill. CC FH, DTL FH, CC BH, & DTL BH, volleys, overheads and serves. Work on hitting targets.
4. Play practice sets and tie breakers
5. Join a league and play competitive matches to get feedback on progress.
 
I am rated 5.0 but having trouble generating more power and dictating points with higher tier 5.0/5.5 because of my western grip (not wrapping my hand around the full handle) AND I do not fully take the racquet back all the way when I swing on the forehand side. I do think you can move upward to 5.0 when you have the fitness and consistency. The reason for the change is that I have the potential to become 5-10% better, which is significant in the higher levels.
 
TennisCJC said:
Well, Robin Soderling had fairly ugly strokes and was a top 10 player so it's possible to play high level with less than perfect technique.

For Curious:
1. Get over trying to have perfect modern wristy strokes. Instead work on having a stable wrist just before, during and just after contact. Let the core and specifically the shoulders drive the stroke. Think hit up and thru contact in a stroke and not a "whip".
2. Learn both a slice and topspin backhand. Lendl is a better model than most modern players as he had a very simple topspin and slice backhand with little to no wrist action.
3. Get a hitting partner and drill. CC FH, DTL FH, CC BH, & DTL BH, volleys, overheads and serves. Work on hitting targets.
4. Play practice sets and tie breakers
5. Join a league and play competitive matches to get feedback on progress.
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Fairly ugly strokes doesn’t mean bad technique. Especially from a top level pro.

Agree with the rest of your post.
 
@Curious
Where's your tennis at now?

Learn this FH from this coach. Looks simple.
qo8Yog.gif



I'm dropping Alcaraz style, and going back to my own familiar style which looks like this coach. Simply keep the racket head high and the racket face somewhat opens forward.

Djokovic's and Alcaraz with inverted racket face is just too hard to do!!!
 
MrAsianMan said:
I am rated 5.0 but having trouble generating more power and dictating points with higher tier 5.0/5.5 because of my western grip (not wrapping my hand around the full handle) AND I do not fully take the racquet back all the way when I swing on the forehand side. I do think you can move upward to 5.0 when you have the fitness and consistency. The reason for the change is that I have the potential to become 5-10% better, which is significant in the higher levels.
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Okay, I'll take your word for it but in my experience by the time most 5.0s get to 5.0, their game is what it is because of their stroke mechanics, or to put it another way, the path from 5.0 to 5.5 rarely lies through overhauling strokes at the level of grip changes.
 
user92626 said:
@Curious
Where's your tennis at now?

Learn this FH from this coach. Looks simple.
qo8Yog.gif



I'm dropping Alcaraz style, and going back to my own familiar style which looks like this coach. Simply keep the racket head high and the racket face somewhat opens forward.

Djokovic's and Alcaraz with inverted racket face is just too hard to do!!!
Click to expand...
That is because they are doing something different than you do.
 
I improved a lot from not knowing how to play tennis to consistently hitting deep and powerful shots. Two things that really made me drastically improve: heavy & powerful racquet + simple technique. I call it the Kimiko Date method. Heavy powerful racquet + simple technique. Her racquet is 385 grams!



 
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user92626 said:
How do you guys pronunciate MEP?
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Living in the distant past?

Pronunciate? Rather odd word. So much so that it was autocorrected when I typed it. It does not appear in most modern dictionaries at all. One dictionary that does list is indicates that it’s an obsolete alternative to “pronounce”.

Oxford English Dictionary

The OED is the definitive record of the English language, featuring 600,000 words, 3 million quotations, and over 1,000 years of English.
www.oed.com www.oed.com
 
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SystemicAnomaly said:
Living in the distant past?

Pronunciate? Rather odd word. So much so that it was autocorrected when I typed it. It does not appear in most modern dictionaries at all. One dictionary that does list is indicates that it’s an obsolete alternative to “pronounce”.

Oxford English Dictionary

The OED is the definitive record of the English language, featuring 600,000 words, 3 million quotations, and over 1,000 years of English.
www.oed.com www.oed.com
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It looks like @user92626 from some Spanish-speaking country.
 
AnyPUG said:
Nobody can improve with bad technique. What's bad technique? The one that does not keep the ball in play. Not good looking is not bad. Not working is bad.
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Fair enough, but that is somewhat semantic. "Bad technique" needs defined for the sake of this discussion, versus what some might call "non-optimal" technique.

Do you think @Curious has bad technique? If he is struggling to make 4 good balls in a row, then maybe that is the case, but then he would have to figure out why he can't do that. Is it really his swing, or is it poor footwork, bad spacing, or a failure to register ball path/flight and react accordingly?

I don't know.
 
Curious said:
As someone who has chased the perfect technique for years and eventually conceding defeat, where do I go from here?
Is it possible to improve one's tennis with bad/flawed technique? As long as the ball goes where it needs to and with certain optimal qualities, does it really matter how the player does that? I'm sure everyone would have witnessed very weird looking strokes in rec tennis that still do the job.
Would love to hear especially from some pros here like @JohnYandell , @J011yroger , @tennis_balla and others that I can't think of at the moment.
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Why did you give up? Fear of losing to bums?

No one can be perfect but you can be to a level you're satisfied with.
 
Short answer is yes. Without knowing your exact level but I believe 4.5 is achievable with "mediocre" technique. I would say if you have a reproducible stroke on most shots, then it is good enough to get to at least 4.5. What is hindering the average rec player is their ability to recognize and get into position to hit their reproducible shot. If you can do that consistently, probably gonna blow everyone else out of the water.

That has nothing to do with your technique but your physical ability. If you train, move faster, see the ball better/quicker, etc etc.
 
dsp9753 said:
Short answer is yes. Without knowing your exact level but I believe 4.5 is achievable with "mediocre" technique. I would say if you have a reproducible stroke on most shots, then it is good enough to get to at least 4.5. What is hindering the average rec player is their ability to recognize and get into position to hit their reproducible shot. If you can do that consistently, probably gonna blow everyone else out of the water.

That has nothing to do with your technique but your physical ability. If you train, move faster, see the ball better/quicker, etc etc.
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rec tennis truth bomb.
 
If you watch 4.5s (I am one of them), you will see a wild variety in technique for every shot. Its just that most of them that got there as a rec player know how to get into position to hit their specific technique shot. Nothing else to it. Alot of 4.5s have some combination of good movement and/or anticipation.

Personally, my volley technique is pretty janky. But at the end of the day, I know when to just block it back into play. I am also super fast (to put it into perspective, I have had other players joke that I somehow teleported). So while my volley technique isnt that good, I make up for it by being super close and quick at the net. At the end of the day, getting it back over and in, wins the day.
 
dsp9753 said:
If you watch 4.5s (I am one of them), you will see a wild variety in technique for every shot. Its just that most of them that got there as a rec player know how to get into position to hit their specific technique shot. Nothing else to it. Alot of 4.5s have some combination of good movement and/or anticipation.

Personally, my volley technique is pretty janky. But at the end of the day, I know when to just block it back into play. I am also super fast (to put it into perspective, I have had other players joke that I somehow teleported). So while my volley technique isnt that good, I make up for it by being super close and quick at the net. At the end of the day, getting it back over and in, wins the day.
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Since you're super quick at the net, are you really fit? Have a normal BMI?

I wonder how we can measure quickness to see where we rank. Simply, below, average, above, or excellent rating.
 
user92626 said:
Since you're super quick at the net, are you really fit? Have a normal BMI?

I wonder how we can measure quickness to see where we rank. Simply, below, average, above, or excellent rating.
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I am very fit, I lift almost daily. I went from 180 lbs to 140 lbs. I can confidently say I am in the excellent quickness category. Easily in the top 5% percent.
 
travlerajm said:
How can you still lift things if you only weigh 140 lbs?
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I went from being barely able to lift myself and now I can carry myself and 1 racquet for 2 hours. Which is apparently just strong enough to get to 4.5 and carry 3.5 ladies.

I never said I was strong. =P

Ill let everyone know how many racquets you need to be able to deadlift to get to 5.0 (carry a 4.5 man).
 
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