Can knots loosen over time?

A client recently brought me a racket which has been strung by someone else previously.

Strung with a round poly - unbranded.

He hadn't used it for 5 months ish.

The knots had massive gaps in the loop.

Can knots loosen over time as I can't imagine that they looked like that then when left the machine.

Cheers, Paul

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Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I wasn't going to try to be knot specific and mention single half hitches, double half hitches, and triple half hitches. I doubt a single half hitch will loosen up but it can easily be pulled into the grommet. and a double half hitch does the same thing. When the first hitch of the SHH pull into the grommet it puts pressure on the second hitch and it will show gaps. I got a PA to string yesterday that came with triple half hitches and the first knot was in the grommet the second 2 were going 1/4' pr better up the string. IMO DHH knots are just too hard to tie.
 

First Serve

Rookie
... IMO DHH knots are just too hard to tie.
Huh??? In your famous tennis knot video which i have watched countless times, your memorable quote for the DHH ("...I started on the right and ended on the right...") the DHH is probably the easiest knot to tie especially in a tight corner where a main and cross come together. I think you had another video where you recommend the DHH for this application.


see 3 min'29" in the video
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
@First Serve let me rephrase that not too difficult to tie but difficult to tie right. I can't imagine saying that a DHH would be a good knot for cramped locations. My guess is I said the Pro knot would be a good knot for cramped locations, but if your anchor string is on top of the intersecting string there is never a cramped location.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
the DHH is probably the easiest knot to tie especially in a tight corner where a main and cross come together. I think you had another video where you recommend the DHH for this application.
Here is a video from over 8 years ago where I used the pro knot to tie off in a tight corner.ni couldn’t find anything on a DHH.

 
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First Serve

Rookie
Here is a video from over 8 years ago where I used the pro knot to tie off in a tight corner.ni couldn’t find anything on a DHH.
@Irvin

Thank you. I really enjoyed your videos. I really learned how to string from them.

I do find the DHH the easier knot to tie in a tight spot like where a main and cross are close together. It is because the SHH is a simple knot relative to other knots which may require coming back over the anchor string as part of the original knot. Completing the first SHH with the same knot technique to make it a DHH while the second time opposite the first SHH ("started on the right and ended on the right") makes it a simple knot for me.

I have not yet experienced the first SHH being sucked back into the grommet and hope it doesnt happen if my technique is sound.

I have yet to try a Parnell knot but plan to on my next job. The Parnell knot was harder for a beginner since I didnt realize I should try to cinch the first SHH which I see from your video iis a part of the Parnell - pulling the tail part at the end.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
@First Serve Any more there are only 3 knots I use. I use the Parnell for all tie off knots. For starting knots I usually use a VS Starting knot for polys and the iKnot for SG and Multi, or when I just need a bulkier starting knot. I never use a different knot for tight quarters because I usually make sure the anchor string is on top of the intersecting string so I never have tight spots. To see what I mean by having the anchor string on top watch the video (or lock at video thumbnail) in post #7.

If you like other knots and you’re comfortable with them but all means you should stick with them.
 

First Serve

Rookie
the VS starting knot is really the hardest knot for me to start/tie. I have followed your video, but unlike the pliable rope in your video, Luxilon (cable wire) ALU can become a tangled mess. Generally with about 5 minutes of effort and great care, I can get it so the knot is relatively neat. Unlike the technique you show and which I also use, the Tennis Pro Shop I go to, the stringers there dont use the anchor (main) to wrap the starting knot around. Do you find it makes any difference to use an anchor string? I think the Pro Shop stringer's rationale for not using the anchor string was the stress put on it.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Unlike the technique you show and which I also use, the Tennis Pro Shop I go to, the stringers there dont use the anchor (main) to wrap the starting knot around. Do you find it makes any difference to use an anchor string? I think the Pro Shop stringer's rationale for not using the anchor string was the stress put on it.
The anchor string could be a main or a cross. It is the string used to tie the knot on. There is less stress on the anchor string with a starting knot than a tie off knot.
 

First Serve

Rookie
The Pro shop I go to forms the VS starting knot without the use of the anchor string. The bulky knot is sufficient not be sucked up into the grommet .
 

First Serve

Rookie
That's not a good practice - and, in my opinion, is an example of shoddy work. :confused:
Wes, I know the pro shop does it intentionally and not out of being sloppy. Their rationale is to not put stress on anchor string. Is this premise unconfirmed?
 
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jim e

Legend
I always tie knots to an anchor string and don't have problems. I even string a decent amount of natural gut and have so for years and no issues. I think some stringers possibly over think issues that can possibly happen but in reality don't.
Now I use to have issues with Nat gut sometimes snapping at a grommet, not necessarily the tie off, due to shanked hitting of the ball, but basically eliminated that issue by placing a lubricant in the main string grommets.
Tie a decent knot on an anchor string is not an issue for me.
Then again, I tie my knots with my fingers, and don't crank on the tail with pliers like some stringers do, as that can cause an issue.
 

First Serve

Rookie
I always tie knots to an anchor string and don't have problems. I even string a decent amount of natural gut and have so for years and no issues. I think some stringers possibly over think issues that can possibly happen but in reality don't.
Now I use to have issues with Nat gut sometimes snapping at a grommet, not necessarily the tie off, due to shanked hitting of the ball, but basically eliminated that issue by placing a lubricant in the main string grommets.
Tie a decent knot on an anchor string is not an issue for me.
Then again, I tie my knots with my fingers, and don't crank on the tail with pliers like some stringers do, as that can cause an issue.
agreed Jim, my local Pro Shop is probably overly conservative. I know they string for Michael Chang on occasion so they are "professionals" on their craft. I also use an anchor to tie my starting knots and use NG. Based on my experience, I have not had an issue but just wanted to bring this point up for discussion and my own learning.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I also use an anchor to tie my starting knots and use NG. Based on my experience, I have not had an issue but just wanted to bring this point up for discussion and my own learning.
I'm just making an assumption here but I assume the VS Starting Knot was designed by VS for natural gut strings. If you are using gut strings, and a starting knot, why would you not want to use the VS Starting knot?
 

First Serve

Rookie
Irvin, i never made that connection until now, but that sounds reasonable. To remove ambiguity they should have named it the Babolat starting not.
 

Coach Dudley

New User
Hi! I have been stringing for over 30 years and have never had a tie-off knot loosen. I know some stringers trim the excess string flush or too close to the knot so the force of a miss hit ball can untie it...
 
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